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Thread: 04 M3 woes

  1. #1
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    04 M3 woes

    This is a copy/paste of an e-mail to the tuner that did the files for the car. Lots of experience with him, and no issues for over 6 years.


    Two days of test and tune and a solo event last week. No issues (except 4 year old Bridgestone RE71s !!! DEAD). Yesterday at a second T&T the car started running oddly (sort of weak at moments). At home I pulled codes using INPA and is was a "salad" --


    93 post cat 2 voltage temp 480c
    207, 208, 209, and 210 misfires on 6, 5, 4, & 3 (New plugs -- maybe coils)
    94 internal index, 241
    119 (I think Signal, potentiometer, servomotor) which is OBD2 P0221
    EML light only


    Cleared them, fired up the car, and it ran smoother (on the trailer)


    This morning it fired up fine, drove around the site modestly, and took the car to grid. Then I ran it 700 feet to the start line, took off, and limp !! Only had idle. CEL and EML were lit. Took it to the trailer, shut it down, restarted, and CEL was on and EML was off. Throttle was fine so ran it up on the trailer and came home.


    Using INPA pulled codes 118, 119, 120, and 120, but nothing else. Ran multimeter tests by uninstalling the throttle pedal and back probing pins 3 and 5. Voltage sweeps seemed fine with no sudden spikes or drop offs. A scope would have been better, but I don't have one. Nowhere in DIS or INPA could I find a data stream to check the live data from the car. Also, I back probed the plug at the pedal to confirm grounds and power.


    Until yesterday, I have driven the car about 1000 miles with no issues after you sent the "recovered" DME back to me. My S54 Touring has a 2002 M3 DME in it, but I assume I can not swap it to the 04 M3 for testing --- correct?


    Any thought? Should I swap the wagon's throttle pedal? Same part number.

  2. #2
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Swapping the pedal would just rule that out, but yes it is the same one in all E-46's and I think some E-39 during that time frame.

    I would check the wiring under the boot on the pedal for GP.

    Coils do go wacky over time, as I started to have the one/two fail on me last year, so just did them all at once, so as it is in that age group, would be worth doing just for piece of mind.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
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  3. #3
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    Well, I have an S54 Touring. Already swapped the front TPS for resistance and voltage tests. Wiring at the oil filter housing and pedal appears clean. There is a short YouTube video for testing, and based on that, results are good.

    IIRC, the IPNA read outs show that the TPS failures were above 5000 rpm. The issue started about half way through Saturday's autocross test and tune. Different set up codes, and none were TPS related. Sunday the failure and immediate "limp" mode was at the start of the first run. I cycled the ignition but problems continued.

  4. #4
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Ah yes, I think I remember seeing that thread, pretty cool idea.

    You would be better served to watch live data, with a driver and you as the passenger. I think you will need to find a barely used back road to test on so it isn't interfering with normal traffic.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
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  5. #5
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    Nothing to view live data stream. My SnapOn Solus went tits up.

  6. #6
    dworthy's Avatar
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    INPA is cheap - Free, but you will have to get a cable around 30 bucks and any Windows laptop computer.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  7. #7
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    I have a Schwaben scan tool coming from ECS. Hopefully it will have sufficient assets. Meanwhile, head to friend's shop. BMW specialist with a dizzying array of diag stuff.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have INPA. I have yet to find live data in it. At least, not that shows TPS activity.

  8. #8
    dworthy's Avatar
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    I think it is there, but under the pedal, for I have used it a couple of times. It is looking for the coorluations between the two.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  9. #9
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    Well, update --- yesterday the battery was flat. Jumped the car, cleared codes, first time I hit 6500-7000 in first gear the EML light came on again. DIS codes 78 and 79 - INPA codes 119 and 120. EVERYTHING I had done (testing, swapping, etc) indicated no "sore thumbs". Took the car to a specialist (and a friend as well) who hooked up his diag equipment and saw another salad of codes. He cleared them, I drove the car again and at 6500-7000 rpm EML came on. Another scan showed just those two codes but he also noticed that one of them set at a lower rpm and the second a bit higher. BUT --- the system voltage was 11.7 for the first and 11.3 for the second. The alternator has become noisy lately, and is a reman the p.o. apparently had installed. I will have another alternator Wednesday for the car. It will not surprise me if I have to jump the car again today.

    I have experienced some interesting "issues" with failing alternators on my E39 and a friends E46 -- both M54 cars. Both a couple of days of weird car activities and then dead batteries.

    We'll know tomorrow. ;-)

  10. #10
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Yeah a bad alternator can wreak havoc with the cars electronics, so I would start there first.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  11. #11
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    WELLLLLL ............ new alternator helped keeping the battery at a proper charge rate. so it was a separate issue. Local expert (friend with a specialist shop) did his "thing", and I will have a new actuator midday tomorrow.

    Fun fun , and $$$$$$$$$$$$ !!!! Yippee.

  12. #12
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    Got the actuator this morning. Just 90 minutes later we were up and running again. (Kinda proud of "beating the book" by almost 2 hours, because I replaced the coils, too!!) Installed the actuator, set the limiter screw, and put it back together. No hiccups, no codes, just POWAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    P.S. the engine spins faster at startup as the old alternator was undercharging the lithium lightweight race battery. And the coils didn't hurt anything as I was feeling misfires and got codes for that, too.
    Last edited by snaponbob; 04-11-2019 at 03:38 PM.

  13. #13
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Good to hear! Yeah an old alternator will do that, for it isn't putting out the right amount of juice to charge the battery properly.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dworthy View Post
    Good to hear! Yeah an old alternator will do that, for it isn't putting out the right amount of juice to charge the battery properly.
    Well, it was NOT the cause of the original problem. But, during all the diagnostics, it popped up as an unrelated problem.

    Bottom line, I bought a 2 owner 155K miles E46 M3 that (besides Koni Yellows) 100% unmolested. I KNEW the VANOS was dead when I bought it. That was rebuild with Beisan stuff and normal things (like rod bearings) were done to freshen it up. The car ran great and had zero issues. So, further upgrades, mods, and enhancements were done to ready it for autocross competition. STILL all went well. A seven year old battery packed up in a long stretch of sun-freezing weather, but that was all that was out of the norm. BUT, three weekends ago it went into competition, and that is when weaknesses started to show up. (Did I mention a three year old race seat broke ?!?!?!?!?)

    This is not much different than an E36 M3 I put into autocross service. Everything was great for three events, and then low oil pressure at idle popped up. That required an engine !!

    Old war horses need attention !! Shit happens !! So, now the charging system is up to snuff, misfiring is resolved, the actuator is replaced (which was surprisingly easy to do), and it actually feels stronger above 5500-6000 rpm. The good news is that it all happened at the BEGINNING of the season.

  15. #15
    dworthy's Avatar
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    And that is why you do a shake down run before the season starts to find these problems.

    For being a highly engineered motor, the S-54 is actually pretty easy to work on IMO. Of course I just pulled mine out of storage this past weekend, and it has a 10 year old battery in it, still passed the load test just fine. I have kept the car in tip top shape, and have plenty of fun running the piss out of now and again on the Autobahn, the governor kicks in at 170MPH, not interested in pulling that thing off. I only run it that fast if the road is empty, too many auslander cutting you off otherwise.

    What was the brand of seat you broke? I am not going to ask how much you weight, but a better seat seems to be in order.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  16. #16
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    So, I bought the car 6-7 months ago. The VANOS was dead, and that helped the price. I spent a bunch of money with Beisan and took care of that. The valves were re-shimmed, and the car was driven some to see what else needed attention. At that point it was 100% fine except the cloth on th A and C pillars (and they were repaired). The car ran great and was getting good mileage and consumed no oil. Then the real work started. Up on jack stands, exhaust was dropped, rear came out, front subframe was dropped (for welding and access to the engine for WPC rod bearings and ARPs), and removal of the manifolds to replace the cats with 100 cell pieces), and lots of small stuff. Rear body was welded, poly bushings, Dinan shifter (with poly bushings) and new coupler, new clutch kit and fresh seals, and full GC race suspension. Rear suspension received new ball joints, RTABs, Bimmerworld lower adjustable camber arms, and poly upper/inner bushings. With everything back in place, the new exhaust was fabricated, and an Active Autowerke was flashed into the DME. The car ran great for a couple months. NO issues. But, street use can not duplicate the beating an autocross can inflict !!! I had noticed some slight misfiring developing at cold start, but was not too concerned. At the first event (a two day) my co driver and I had about 20 runs on it with no issues. Two weeks later at the second event (another 2 day) things started going sideways under the hood. But a week of thrashing on it and it was resolved. We ran it yesterday and whipped the hell out if it. Not only was it 100% healthy, it was stronger, too. I am sure that before codes were being set, the coils and weak alternator were having an impact on the power output.

    As for the seat, it was a three season old first generation Braum S8 seat. The right side of the seat back broke at the pivot. When I contacted them, I could tell from the lack of pushback that they knew it was a weak point. The new S8 is substantially updated. But, rather than another two piece, we settled on their Venom R single piece bucket. My only cost was shipping the old seat to them. So, as Edd China would say -- RESULT.

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