ZHP non-SAC clutch?

[moroza]

UPDATE: see post 37. The answer at this time is Probably.

I'm getting my ducks in a row for a 6-speed swap into my E34 M50. Still undecided between 420G and 37BZ, found answers to most questions, but one is proving elusive: is there a non-self-adjusting pressure plate that will fit an E46 ZHP stock clutch and flywheel? I see SMF conversions that also do away with SAC, but what I've gathered is 1. they rattle more than one would expect, and 2. the stock ZHP flywheel is fairly light. So while I normally prefer a lightweight solid flywheel + sprung clutch, I'm inclined to use the factory setup in this case, minus the SAC.

[RobertDenali]

Why are you looking at non self adjusting?

[Critter7r]

I don't know the answer to your question. However, I also don't see the advantage to forgoing the SAC. It seems like you wouldn't gain anything, and you lose the adjustment feature.

[moroza]

Generally, I delete a feature if I don't care about it, it's an additional point of failure, and practical to get rid of. My previous E34 544iT had a sunroof delete, manual seat conversion, ASC delete, and single-mass flywheel, among other things. About SAC in particular I've heard a lot of complaints, and nothing that sounds good to me.

So that answers "why"... now how about "how"?

[RobertDenali]

Ok makes sense. Maybe someone on here will reply with the answer to your question.

FWIW my ZHP has a Genuine BMW self adjusting clutch and it has been flawlessly operating for 80k miles. I think the e46 sac clutch is an exceptionally good clutch.

There are many aftermarket clutches available for the e46 series. Call ecstuning or fcpeuro to find out what non sac clutches they have and I would bet they could provide instructions on install.

You could always post your question on zhpmafia as well.

https://blog.bavauto.com/11334/bmw-s...ow-to-replace/

[yukon101]

I'm getting my ducks in a row for a 6-speed swap into my E34 M50. Still undecided between 420G and 37BZ, found answers to most questions, but one is proving elusive: is there a non-self-adjusting pressure plate that will fit an E46 ZHP stock clutch and flywheel? I see SMF conversions that also do away with SAC, but what I've gathered is 1. they rattle more than one would expect, and 2. the stock ZHP flywheel is fairly light. So while I normally prefer a lightweight solid flywheel + sprung clutch, I'm inclined to use the factory setup in this case, minus the SAC.

I say swap in a 420g, it is such a nicely geared transmission. I have a whole hybrid clutch system. Mine however does have flywheel rattle due to not having at the very least a sprung clutch.

[moroza]

I slightly prefer the gearing of the 420G (.828 vs .851 overdrive), but the 37BZ ends up ~$600 cheaper and is said to shift better. I'm keeping my options open, doing homework.

My E34 544iT had a 420G with E31 280mm sprung clutch and ~15lb UUC flywheel. Loved the response, easily tolerated the little noise. I hear more complaints about S54 and M54 LWFW setups, though.

[wanganstyle]

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[Liquidity]

Where on earth are you getting the idea that a g420 is only a $5-600 transmission? Maybe with a blown 3rd gear synchro. A g420 gets $1-1.5k in good nick, even the SMG version gets like 7-800.

[wanganstyle]

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[Liquidity]

So in your little circle of friends in one small local area you can find that price. Right. Totally reflects the entire country.

[wanganstyle]

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[Liquidity]

You live in a bubble. The average person is not finding anything that cheap.

[Critter7r]

You live in a bubble. The average person is not finding anything that cheap.

What is this I don't even ...

You can buy stuff from his bubble. Where it's cheaper than your bubble. There are these things called trucks that can bring stuff from his bubble to your bubble.

[wanganstyle]

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[moroza]

Liquidity, you're the only user I've ever ignored in 13 years of BFC. That might tell you something. EDIT: nevermind, you're suspended. What a surprise.

I won't get into the degree of idiocy required to refer to a population center of 7-10 million a "small local bubble".

H, you are known to both find screaming deals and exaggerate somewhat. In this case though, you're right, and yes, I'm aware of the SMG option. My problem is that a $600 box needs $300 of machine work that I realistically can't do myself (plus ~$120 in parts, some of which would be worth changing anyway) and I seem to be cursed with almost never having a good result from outsourcing - everything from haircuts and clothing alterations to auto body and wheel repair - not only by my standards but by normal people's as well. When I can get a 37BZ for $350 with a bit of legwork... it's ~$600 cheaper and less headache.

My impression, both from personal experience and talking to people, is that the 420G is above-average for being rattly at low RPM. I've intentions for a diesel so that concerns me. I'm hoping that/wondering if the 37BZ is quieter. If it shares parts with the 37DZ, I would expect so, but I don't know.

Self-centering shifter is news to me; I'll look into that. Got one you can recommend?

[yukon101]

I paid a year ago $800 for my G420g but I guess that's unreal since its a V8 bolt pattern making it *slightly* more common.

[wanganstyle]

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[moroza]

Ever heard of a company called Uber or lift or Tesla? Oh yeah this Local Bubble called the Bay Area created these things........ LOL ROFL

FTFY for emphasis.

If one is just looking for a 6mt gearbox that will mate to a m50 family engine and willing to hunt though salvage yards the zf6 speeds from e90 era are avail in u pull yards for under $200.

Ah but there are two (for my purposes) engine families in E90 and E60: M54 and N52. I know the former will work, but I've found very little information about the latter, all of which suggests it won't, but I'ven't seen any hard data. In one case, hard data was in photos whose links are broken; in another case, it's you in an argument with someone, telling them to search harder. I'd love to use an N52 box because they're cheap and young, but my only option at this point is to ask a dismantler nicely if I could take measuring tools to one. Any info you have would be great, but unless N52 boltpattern = M47/M57 boltpattern, there's more to the story than your 37DZ experience.

For a diesel application review my swap of the 320d 6mt gearbox to e30 on r3vtarded and hunt for one on eBay Europe ; iirc it was under $600 delivered to the Bay Area. Gearing matches a diesel power plant the best as it is a diesel box designed for a turbo diesel; very short 1st to move the car off the line and 2/3/4/5 pretty close to keep the turbocharger glowing.

Factory Mercedes gearing for an OM606 manual transmission is nearly identical to Getrag 260/5 (in fact, that trans is a Getrag 5-speed, not sure what code), with a normal gasser spread. Besides my inclination to stick to OE gearing, I've driven enough granny-gear boxes to prefer a normal one for this application. I prefer smooth takeoff to fast launches. Not racecar.

[wanganstyle]

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[moroza]

Relevant but doesn't answer the question. 320d is not N52.

[wanganstyle]

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[moroza]

Double overdrive? Such BMW boxes I've found are:
1. This source, though not others (also in the first thread, and this) claim the 37DZ is DO.
2. Unambiguously, the 45DZ found in certain Efficient Dynamics diesels. Internal oil pump, 1st and revere synchro issues, expensive. Nice gearing but do not want.
3. It probably but uncertainly refers to the manual transmission, but the factory brochure (available here) says the pre-facelift 318d box is DO.
4. E89 3.0? Interesting; Wikipedia says it uses the 17BG. According to this the F30 328i also uses it. I initially disregarded this box because 170Nm is pretty dinky, but it's suppposedly rated for 350Nm, and is indeed DO. Will investigate further. This doesn't confirm the trans code, but shows it a DO with different ratios than the F30.

135/335 N54 box, 53BZ, bolts up to M5x? Someone disagrees to the extent that they make and sell an adapter plate.

So... no offense, I'm just trying to get something done without risking buying a gearbox that turns out to be wrong, but what are your sources for the N52 issue? N54 issue I don't care about because I don't want that box anyway (.87 overdrive is too short for my liking).

[wanganstyle]

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[moroza]

Morning internet search shows these bellhousings that are all different.
M5x gasser on the right, 37DZ (not BZ) on the left. Not all but most holes look to line up, and your personal experience is that enough line up to work. Different but compatible. Great!


Referencing the M5x bolt holes at clock positions 12:30, 1:30, 2:30, 3:00, 5:00, 7:00, 7:30, 9:00, 10:30, and 11:30, it looks like you left off the bolts at 2:30 and either 7 or 7:30. Can you confirm?

But N52 is yet another variation. Again, most holes look the same, but are they? Rumors say no, but they're rumors at this point.
n52 bellhousing.jpg
N54 looks the same as N52, but I don't know for sure. There's better than a rumor that it's incompatible. Or at least, Vollosso considers compatibility to mean all holes must be used.