Interest in a fully integrated A2DP Bluetooth solution?

[Thresher]

The BlueBus does fully emulate the CD Changer as its means of operating.

If your head unit (Board Monitor or Business CD) has a single CD Player, that will continue to work fine.

Re-reading this now; your comment is starting to make more sense. Expecting that there must be some functionality I haven't seen yet in the code that makes Bluebus dependent on the extra functions provided by a CD-changer vs the single CD player.

[Brian1960]

This is what I had initially hoped for, but I suspect sooner or later Ted will chime in with a comment that it is a bit more complicated.

If I had to guess at the internal workings of the radio system, I would say when you press the mode button on the head unit and select the CD device, then further button presses on the steering wheel and/or head unit are received (by radio?) and translated to device specific commands which are then sent to the appropriate device via Ibus. In the case of selecting AUX, that would be a generic line input and other than sending volume up/down commands to the radio, there really isn't anything else you can do like pause, play, track-forward, track-backward, or seek operations that you could do with a CD device. I suspect it is the CD changer device specific commands that the BlueBus is looking for, so that it can interpret and/or forward those actions over the bluetooth connection to the attached device. Then your connected device can be instructed to track-forward, pause, play, etc...

The one thing I would like BlueBus to be able to do and I know it won't based on several confirmations from Ted is to allow me to browse/play MP3 files on a USB. To that end, I noticed when i was looking at BMW tv tuners the other day that some screenshots I am seeing on the updated ATSC (i.e., US) devices show that you can browse USB storage and play media files. I also thought I saw something recently about Sirius configurations; is there a CD-changer by-pass capability with how the wiring harness works? These are areas where I will spend my research time next...

With BlueBus, I will be able to replace the CD changer and TCU. Possibly with an updated/retrofitted tv tuner I can add a rear view camera capability and I might be able to browse/play MP3s.

I remain highly interested in BlueBus. Having someone like Ted pulling all of this together is no small feat and I think this will be a very nice addition to my car. My day job is a software engineer so I can appreciate a good chunk of the work going into BlueBus. Hardware and electrical engineering have always been viewed as a mystery to me. :-) I grabbed a copy of Ted's BlueBus sourcecode from GitHub and will sift through it in whatever spare time I can find, which unfortunately isn't much these days.

This idea has appeal as the video modules can be had pretty cheaply still on Ebay but I'm not sure if this particular one is stereo out or will even work on the c43.
I recall seeing another ad where they said it was stereo out but I'm not sure how they managed that and can't find that ad now.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32950436099.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.24fbd 4a2MNbQGn

[Frankie]

...In the case of selecting AUX, that would be a generic line input and other than sending volume up/down commands to the radio, there really isn't anything else you can do like pause, play, track-forward, track-backward...

If that's the case, then an AUX channel would indeed be unsuitable for BlueBus.

[t3ddftw]

Hey guys! Somehow I missed these messages... apologies for leaving you hanging!

This is exactly what I was thinking. Based on my limited knowledge of Ibus and what I infer from Ted's response is that the BlueBus probably appears to other devices on the IBus as the CD changer. Years ago I started to look into IBus and it seemed that different devices on Ibus had a device identifier. Purely speculation on my part, but I wonder if the BlueBus device might be identifying itself as the cd changer to other devices on IBus. If that is true, and it is configured to do so in firmware, then perhaps there would be a way to change that, and preserve the usage of the CD changer per your comments.

Ted, as soon as your device ships, I suspect you may get lots of ideas/requests for a future "version 2" of BlueBus! :-)

You're correct! The BlueBus implements the CD Changer protocol to trick the RAD into accepting audio from the CD Changer. Apart from getting the single CD nav unit, there is no way I can think of for the BlueBus to co-exist with the CD Changer out of the box.

If your car accepts OE AUX (meaning you have retrofitted a later model BM53), you may be able to do it, but you would need to contact me about having the firmware modified for this. Again, since the BlueBus emulates the CD Changer, there would be contention on the IBus if you connected both devices.

Just to confirm: As it stands today this unit will work with single disk CD head units, but not changers. So, if I can retrofit a single disk head unit to my ‘01 e38 (which currently only has a trunk mounted changer) I could have access to CD playback AND all this Bluetooth goodness.

Yep, this is correct!

t3ddftw: please correct me if this is wrong:

sdb999: No. The Bluebus, like so many other aftermarket devices, is designed to operate thru the CD changer channel (wires in the trunk). And all BMW's since 1996 were pre-wired for this ('89-'95 models can be upgraded). Simply select CD mode from your nav/MID to engage BlueBus.

And like other aftermarket devices, BlueBus displaces the CD changer.

However if you have nav, and swap the stock C43 radio (mounted in trunk) with a BM53 nav radio, you should be able to move the Bluebus over the the BM53's AUX channel as previously described. This means the CD channel remains free for use with the original changer.

For E38 7-series without nav (and with in-dash radios), the only way to retain CD playback ability is to install the CD43 radio with in-dash CD player, and then connect the BlueBus to its CD changer input (in trunk). (E39 5-series without nav may install the CD53 in-dash radio with AUX input.)

Frankie,

You're correct, except that there would need to be some manual work done in the firmware to make this a viable option.

t3ddftw: please correct me if this is wrong:

Thresher: I think the labels "CD" and "AUX", which display on your nav or MID to identify the channel in use, come from firmware in the radio and not from the device. Therefore, moving the BlueBus to the BM53's AUX channel won't change what's displayed. So...in this case, you will see "CD" when using a CD changer and "AUX" when using BlueBus.

As an example, I'm currently using an aftermarket mp3 music device on the CD changer line, and yet my nav still displays "CD", while its buttons retain full functionality. And when streaming thru the BM53's AUX channel with an aftermarket adapter, my nav displays "AUX".

Correct . The RAD is what controls what is displayed on the screen, _to some extent_. The BlueBus actually overwrites whatever the Radio writes to the screen with what it actually wants to display.

If I had to guess at the internal workings of the radio system, I would say when you press the mode button on the head unit and select the CD device, then further button presses on the steering wheel and/or head unit are received (by radio?) and translated to device specific commands which are then sent to the appropriate device via Ibus. In the case of selecting AUX, that would be a generic line input and other than sending volume up/down commands to the radio, there really isn't anything else you can do like pause, play, track-forward, track-backward, or seek operations that you could do with a CD device. I suspect it is the CD changer device specific commands that the BlueBus is looking for, so that it can interpret and/or forward those actions over the bluetooth connection to the attached device. Then your connected device can be instructed to track-forward, pause, play, etc...

The one thing I would like BlueBus to be able to do and I know it won't based on several confirmations from Ted is to allow me to browse/play MP3 files on a USB. To that end, I noticed when i was looking at BMW tv tuners the other day that some screenshots I am seeing on the updated ATSC (i.e., US) devices show that you can browse USB storage and play media files. I also thought I saw something recently about Sirius configurations; is there a CD-changer by-pass capability with how the wiring harness works? These are areas where I will spend my research time next...

I remain highly interested in BlueBus. Having someone like Ted pulling all of this together is no small feat and I think this will be a very nice addition to my car. My day job is a software engineer so I can appreciate a good chunk of the work going into BlueBus. Hardware and electrical engineering have always been viewed as a mystery to me. :-) I grabbed a copy of Ted's BlueBus sourcecode from GitHub and will sift through it in whatever spare time I can find, which unfortunately isn't much these days.

The steering wheel buttons (MFL) are actually interpreted by the radio, which in turn tell the "CD Changer" to change tracks.

The Video Module based solution that you are referring to sounds curiously like the PiBus (http://pibus.info) -- it uses a RaspberryPi computer to display onto the screen. This solution also kills the CD Changer.

Thanks for the support!

If that's the case, then an AUX channel would indeed be unsuitable for BlueBus.

This is mostly correctly. Thankfully, each button press has its own message independent of what the Radio tells the CD Changer to do, so the sky is really the limit. The big issue here is modifying the firmware in a way that will allow it to take over the AUX input, rather than listening to the CD Changer commands.

To Summarize: I can make the BlueBus work through the AUX input, but it will not be easy for me, and it will not be there on day one.


I also wanted to announce that I have started taking payment on pre-orders so they can be sent to manufacture next week. If you signed up for a pre-order, you should've gotten an email about it . Otherwise, if you fill out the pre-order form on the site, it will forward you to the checkout once you submit it.

Thanks!
-Ted

[Frankie]

To Summarize: I can make the BlueBus work through the AUX input...

This is interesting. I suspected a device could be made to simply "listen" on the AUX channel instead of the "CD" channel. Of course, an optimal solution would auto-detect the channel in use, and then listen accordingly. Nevertheless, a device hard-coded for one channel or another would still provide fantastic flexibility, with the CD channel most likely being the most popular.

[Thresher]

I also wanted to announce that I have started taking payment on pre-orders so they can be sent to manufacture next week. If you signed up for a pre-order, you should've gotten an email about it . Otherwise, if you fill out the pre-order form on the site, it will forward you to the checkout once you submit it.

Thanks!
-Ted

Order submitted!

While everyone waits for their orders to be fulfilled, is there any work needed on my end to prepare cables to connect to the device? I think the DSP coaxial and CD-changer connector cables are simply going to be plug-n-play; I'm not sure what to make of the microphone... I have a TCU and OEM microphone in my car; it required adapter harness 84-12-0-308-375 to install. Any information ahead of time on what I can do to be prepared is appreciated! I'm sure others will be trying to figure out the microphone connection too.

[t3ddftw]

http://www.bimmernav.com/images/x5bt4.jpg

This is interesting. I suspected a device could be made to simply "listen" on the AUX channel instead of the "CD" channel. Of course, an optimal solution would auto-detect the channel in use, and then listen accordingly. Nevertheless, a device hard-coded for one channel or another would still provide fantastic flexibility, with the CD channel most likely being the most popular.

I should add that this would only work with the navigation system (at least "correctly") as the Radio sends the ""AUX" text over the IBus to the Navi to write into the main "display area". I can use this text to know when you're in "AUX" mode.

Order submitted!

While everyone waits for their orders to be fulfilled, is there any work needed on my end to prepare cables to connect to the device? I think the DSP coaxial and CD-changer connector cables are simply going to be plug-n-play; I'm not sure what to make of the microphone... I have a TCU in my car; it required adapter harness 84-12-0-308-375 to install. Any information ahead of time on what I can do to be prepared is appreciated! I'm sure others will be trying to figure out the microphone connection too.

Thanks for the support! You have a 2001 E38, so you should have the SES Jumper (http://www.bimmernav.com/images/x5bt4.jpg) somewhere in the trunk, right? If so, I am working on a plug and play adapter that will tie the BlueBus to the TCU system through that, at a small additional cost (my margins on this unit are tiny. They cost $110/unit just to have made, and that doesn't include the case!).

The female version of the 54 pin connector is hard to source (meaning it's only available from sellers in the Shenzhen, CN Electronics trade), but the 26 pin adapter is still made to this day by TE Connectivity.

If you're feeling up to it, you can re-purpose the 54 pin connector like so: https://github.com/tedsalmon/BlueBus...-TCU-connector

Thanks!
-Ted

[Thresher]

You have a 2001 E38, so you should have the SES Jumper (http://www.bimmernav.com/images/x5bt4.jpg) somewhere in the trunk, right? If so, I am working on a plug and play adapter that will tie the BlueBus to the TCU system through that, at a small additional cost (my margins on this unit are tiny. They cost $110/unit just to have made, and that doesn't include the case!).

The female version of the 54 pin connector is hard to source (meaning it's only available from sellers in the Shenzhen, CN Electronics trade), but the 26 pin adapter is still made to this day by TE Connectivity.

If you're feeling up to it, you can re-purpose the 54 pin connector like so: https://github.com/tedsalmon/BlueBus...-TCU-connector

Thanks!
-Ted

Interesting. I have the SES module installed in my car. It's usefulness is more of a novelty. Will BlueBus work along side cars with a SES module, or should I plan on removing the SES module? I seem to recall some messages about BlueBus using the the little face icon on the steering wheel -- if so, it seems like that might require removal of the SES module?

I also have a spare TCU that does not work; if I can figure out how to open it I would have access a female 54-pin connector and could remove it from the main board.... but that will take a bit of work... Sounds like I will have a few weeks to sort this out. :-)

[t3ddftw]

Interesting. I have the SES module installed in my car. It's usefulness is more of a novelty. Will BlueBus work along side cars with a SES module, or should I plan on removing the SES module? I seem to recall some messages about BlueBus using the the little face icon on the steering wheel -- if so, it seems like that might require removal of the SES module?

I could very easily make it work with the SES module. The BlueBus uses the "speech" button in different ways: to accept a call, drop a call, play/pause (when no call is active or incoming), and long pressing it will summon Google Assistant / Siri, both of which use the car microphone to listen for your query.

Thanks!
-Ted

[Frankie]

The female version of the 54 pin connector is hard to source...If you're feeling up to it, you can re-purpose the 54 pin connector...

Those that do not have a DB25-to-54-pin adapter (ex: those who do not currently have a TCU installed) could pull directly from the DB25, either by removing and splicing-in the required pin wires or by purchasing and pinning a commonly available female DB25 with the 6 needed pin wires. This would negate the need for the 54-pin.

MY2003 cars such as late-build E39's (which came standard with the 54-pin connector) have to re-pin from that connector however.

[Stillife]

Any update on shipping dates?

[t3ddftw]

Those that do not have a DB25-to-54-pin adapter (ex: those who do not currently have a TCU installed) could pull directly from the DB25, either by removing and splicing-in the required pin wires or by purchasing and pinning a commonly available female DB25 with the 6 needed pin wires. This would negate the need for the 54-pin.

MY2003 cars such as late-build E39's (which came standard with the 54-pin connector) have to re-pin from that connector however.

Frankie,

A great idea, but ultimately one that can be a pain in the ass depending on which MY you have or which body it is.

For example, the E39 TCU harness is its own piece and the DB25 is fully disconnected from the Radio/Mic unless you have an SES installed, so you end up having a wad of "jumper-ed" pins in on the 26 pin SES connector if you want to make use of the DB25.

2001 MY E38s are fully plug and play into the DB25, but earlier models required that you jumper pin 11 to pin 14 on the Eject Box connector (located under the center console) in order to get the TEL ON signal back to the radio.

It's a whole mess -- https://github.com/tedsalmon/BlueBus...-TCU-Connector

That's why I decided to use the SES jumper directly, since it's a solid solution for both the E38 and E39.

Any update on shipping dates?

I'm taking orders now, and they will ship out in January. I'm not funding this myself because I have twin boys on the way (and a two year old daughter), so my everything budget is on hold

Thanks!
-Ted

[monzan]

I ordered :-) looking forward to it. Thanks for the work and effort you are putting in!

[rslifkin]

2001 MY E38s are fully plug and play into the DB25, but earlier models required that you jumper pin 11 to pin 14 on the Eject Box connector (located under the center console) in order to get the TEL ON signal back to the radio.

Interestingly, I had to jumper those pins on my very late build 01 for a stock TCU to work fully. It would handle calls, etc. without the pins jumpered, but until I jumped them, the mic didn't work (I could hear, but nobody could hear me). Jumped the pins and all was good.

[Frankie]

...I decided to use the SES jumper directly, since it's a solid solution for both the E38 and E39.

I'm confused. From your photo below, it appears you are connecting from the TCU's 54-pin connector, not the SES 26 pin connector.

bluebus_connections.jpg

Additionally, SES wasn't available until 9/00 build date (2001 model year) for both E38 and E39. Therefore owners of pre-'01 models would not have that connector. Nor would pre-'03 models have a 54-pin connector unless a TCU was retrofitted.

And yes I agree: the wiring can be a mess.

[Thresher]

And yes I agree: the wiring can be a mess.

Apart from any quirks in the wiring between model years that require jumpers, then we are looking at the following basic options for connecting BlueBus to the built-in microphone:

DB25 (used w/ older phone module) to BlueBus
54 pin (used w/ TCU) to BlueBus
26 pin (used w/ SES) to BlueBus

I'm not clear what connector BlueBus as the microphone input on the device itself. I am using the DB25 to 54pin adapter for my TCU; but seems odd to go from one adapter to another. For my 4/2000 production, MY2001 E38 with SES installed, I should probably just go from DB25 to BlueBus. Sourcing DB25 connectors should be straight-forward. I need to track down the wiring diagram(s); maybe already posted here on this site, in one of Frankie's DIYs or hosted on another site...

[Thresher]

I could very easily make it work with the SES module. The BlueBus uses the "speech" button in different ways: to accept a call, drop a call, play/pause (when no call is active or incoming), and long pressing it will summon Google Assistant / Siri, both of which use the car microphone to listen for your query.

It would be good to have the ability/option to work with SES if it is installed even if it is just to say BlueBus works nicely with existing equipment. Obviously the functionality built into the existing SES is dated compared to newer technology, but SES allows me to issue a variety of commands. Maybe once I get my BlueBus and understand its feature set better I will look back at this post and laugh about being able to operate alongside SES. :-)

[t3ddftw]

I ordered :-) looking forward to it. Thanks for the work and effort you are putting in!

Thanks!

Interestingly, I had to jumper those pins on my very late build 01 for a stock TCU to work fully. It would handle calls, etc. without the pins jumpered, but until I jumped them, the mic didn't work (I could hear, but nobody could hear me). Jumped the pins and all was good.

That's very weird, as that's the "TEL ON" signal, which usually tells the RAD/DSP that the TCU "is there" and that it should accept audio via TEL NF +/- from it. Technically they should have heard you, and you should not have heard them. Maybe this was a function of the TCU?

I'm confused. From your photo below, it appears you are connecting from the TCU's 54-pin connector, not the SES 26 pin connector.

bluebus_connections.jpg

Additionally, SES wasn't available until 9/00 build date (2001 model year) for both E38 and E39. Therefore owners of pre-'01 models would not have that connector. Nor would pre-'03 models have a 54-pin connector unless a TCU was retrofitted.

And yes I agree: the wiring can be a mess.

Correct, I have an E46 M3, so there is no SES jumper (or at least no in my 06/2006 build).

I have a couple of early 2000 (Febuary and June) build E39 users with the SES jumper, so the rule is not 100%, because you know, "reasons" .

If there is no SES jumper, then the DB25 should work fine directly, unless of course the vehicle is so old that the "Eject Box" was in charge of providing the TEL ON signal and there is no wire populated on the 21st pin of the DB25.

Apart from any quirks in the wiring between model years that require jumpers, then we are looking at the following basic options for connecting BlueBus to the built-in microphone:

DB25 (used w/ older phone module) to BlueBus
54 pin (used w/ TCU) to BlueBus
26 pin (used w/ SES) to BlueBus

I'm not clear what connector BlueBus needs as the microphone input. I am using the DB25 to 54pin adapter for my TCU; but seems odd to go from one adapter to another. For my 4/2000 production, MY2001 E38 with SES installed, I should probably just go from DB25 to BlueBus. Sourcing DB25 connectors should be straight-forward. I need to track down the wiring diagram(s); maybe already posted here on this site, in one of Frankie's DIYs or hosted on another site...

These options are correct

The BlueBus has a small 6 pin connector on it with the following signals:
* Radio Mute
* Telephone On
* Mic +
* Mic -
* Telephone Audio +
* Telephone Audio -

I actually have made about 5 or 6 different DB25 connectors for use with the BlueBus, so I can post the pin mapping. However, I am working to make adapters for everyone, even though making wires is awful.

Thanks!
-Ted

[t3ddftw]

It would be good to have the ability/option to work with SES if it is installed even if it is just to say BlueBus works nicely with existing equipment. Obviously the functionality built into the existing SES is dated compared to newer technology, but SES allows me to issue a variety of commands. Maybe once I get my BlueBus and understand its feature set better I will look back at this post and laugh about being able to operate alongside SES. :-)

I really don't know what the SES can do, so I'm on the other side of the fence

I will say that it will probably make it harder to accept and drop calls if you disable the BlueBus's use of the SES button.

[Frankie]

The BlueBus has a small 6 pin connector on it with the following signals:
* Radio Mute
* Telephone On
* Mic +
* Mic -
* Telephone Audio +
* Telephone Audio -

I think I understand now: As long as those signals are present, it doesn't matter where those signals come from - whether from a DB25, 54-pin TCU, or 26-pin SES. But connecting at the SES 26-pin is ideal since it does not require any additional jumpering of the eject box wires. Correct?

I really don't know what the SES can do...

The SES module was a central solution for voice control of navigation, telephone, and "Notepad" (record brief voice messages and store them as notes, or playback as later reminders). SES conflicts with any other connected device that has native voice functions such as a TCU or ULF, and therefore requires being "jumpered out" in the case of a retrofitted ULF, or in the case of a retrofitted TCU, it requires that TCU voice functions be turned off (thru diagnostic software such as NavCoder).

FYI:
It looks like SES modules are failing with age, and require a jumper plug on its 26-pin connector after removal. Doing so however, requires that eject box pins 11/14 be jumpered in order to restore a TELEPHONE ON signal to the TCU/ULF...and probably to BlueBus too. This is what happened in my case after SES failure.

[rslifkin]

FYI:
It looks like SES modules are failing with age, and require a jumper plug on its 26-pin connector after removal. Doing so however, requires that eject box pins 11/14 be jumpered in order to restore a TELEPHONE ON signal to the TCU/ULF...and probably to BlueBus too. This is what happened in my case after SES failure.

That explains a lot. My car had a dead SES module, so I swapped it with a jumper. Now I know why I had to jumper 11/14.

[t3ddftw]

I think I understand now: As long as those signals are present, it doesn't matter where those signals come from - whether from a DB25, 54-pin TCU, or 26-pin SES. But connecting at the SES 26-pin is ideal since it does not require any additional jumpering of the eject box wires. Correct?

Correct!

The SES module was a central solution for voice control of navigation, telephone, and "Notepad" (record brief voice messages and store them as notes, or playback as later reminders). SES conflicts with any other connected device that has native voice functions such as a TCU or ULF, and therefore requires being "jumpered out" in the case of a retrofitted ULF, or in the case of a retrofitted TCU, it requires that TCU voice functions be turned off (thru diagnostic software such as NavCoder).

FYI:
It looks like SES modules are failing with age, and require a jumper plug on its 26-pin connector after removal. Doing so however, requires that eject box pins 11/14 be jumpered in order to restore a TELEPHONE ON signal to the TCU/ULF...and probably to BlueBus too. This is what happened in my case after SES failure.

Thanks for clarification!

I was unaware that the cover on the SES connector actually jumpered the appropriate signals! I thought the entire 26 pin connector was known as the "SES Jumper" because it jumped connections when the SES was installed , haha

[Frankie]

...For my 4/2000 production, MY2001 E38 with SES installed...

...early 2000 (Febuary and June) build E39 users with the SES jumper...

My apologies. I was under the impression that SES became available from 9/00 across E38/E39 model lines. Apparently, BMW pre-wired some cars willy-nilly before that. It appears MY2000 was when it started, and was perhaps standardized beginning in MY2001.

For easy reference and to simplify retrofitting procedures in my DIY's, I was counting on the presence of a "talking head" icon (versus a "telephone" icon) printed on the left steering wheel button pack to indicate that a car came with SES and/or pre-wiring...which should have been from 9/00-on.

I can say with certainty that my 04/99 build E39 (MY1999) does NOT have SES. (It has the telephone icon on the steering wheel.)

[t3ddftw]

My apologies. I was under the impression that SES became available from 9/00 across E38/E39 model lines. Apparently, BMW pre-wired some cars willy-nilly before that. It appears MY2000 was when it started, and was perhaps standardized beginning in MY2001.

For easy reference and to simplify retrofitting procedures in my DIY's, I was counting on the presence of a "talking head" icon (versus a "telephone" icon) printed on the left steering wheel button pack to indicate that a car came with SES and/or pre-wiring...which should have been from 9/00-on.

I can say with certainty that my 04/99 build E39 (MY1999) does NOT have SES. (It has the telephone icon on the steering wheel.)

No apologies necessary -- I'm still unfamiliar with the E38/E39 when it comes to options as I've only ever had E46s.

That's a great piece of advice on the steering wheel icon -- thank you!

I found this: https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...2074-ND/808629

So I may just drop that onto my PCB with the 26 pin adapter, that way it works for all E38/E39 use cases. I'm still talking to vendors in China about getting the 54 pin connector -- I'm so peeved that it's NLA

[rslifkin]

Which side of the 54 pin is NLA? The male or female side? I know I was able to get a female one last year when I made the DB25-54pin adapter for my TCU.