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Thread: E34 525i 1989 model 5 speed Manual 172 000km ALPINE TURBO fitted from new.

  1. #1
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    E34 525i 1989 model 5 speed Manual 172 000km ALPINE TURBO fitted from new.

    Hi Guys,

    I have a mint condition E34, 525i Alpine Turbo, it has 172 000km manual.

    Apparently BMW did a few of these 525i turbo's at new, but it had serious issues when it was new, it burnt and melted plug wires,
    which my dad as a BMW mechanic fixed, and it never did that again, he fitted all kinds of shields to protect different parts.
    Unfortunately my dad passed away 18 months ago at 76 yrs, and I inherited this car from him, I have a suspicion that he had this issue,
    that's why he never used the car and it stood in his garage for about 15 years, he could not diagnose, because he did not have a gauged
    adjustable fuel pressure regulator fitted.
    When I got the suspected that the fuel pressure was fluctuating, then I ordered a new gauged pressure regulator so that I could see what was going on.

    I am having fluctuating Fuel pressure issues.

    When the engine is cold, i'll set the fuel pressure to 34psi at idle so it's about 42psi at Full open throttle.
    At that setting it runs perfect, BUT ! when the engine heats up after driving for about 5kms. the pressure drops to
    about 25psi.
    Then I'll set it up to 34psi again and it will run fine while engine stays warm.
    The next morning or when the engine is COLD, then the pressure is 45psi at idle and about 53psi at full open throttle,
    it is so rich that the car smokes black smoke and it runs rough, until the engine is hot and Fuel pressure will drop to 34psi again,
    and running fine.
    I have fitted a new fuel filter, 2 new In Tank fuel pumps, 2 new adjustable fuel pressure regulators, a new fuel pump fuse and a new
    fuel pump Relay, to make sure the fuel pump gets proper current. Is there anything else that can cause a power / current drop to the
    fuel pump when the engine gets to operating temperature ?
    I am fresh out of ideas now.
    The car is terribly heavy of fuel, when it runs so rich.
    This car really drives like a dream, but I need to sort out this issue. It runs about 53kpa boost / 7 pounds of turbo boost.
    If I set it to 34psi when the engine is Cold, then when the engine is Hot the fuel pressure drops to 25psi, ( TOO LEAN ) then the turbo
    won't come in when you accelerate.
    Last edited by DANLOBO; 03-25-2019 at 04:14 PM. Reason: add more info

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Wish I had your problems.

    There is a lot you haven't described about control of this engine, which we have not seen, so I will take a guess or several.

    Have your verified constant voltage at the fuel pumps?
    Is the fuel line routing safe and effective?
    Check the fuel pressure regulator, it sounds like the first candidate for diagnosing a pressure problem. Assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that the FPR is managed by a vacuum line from the manifold, is this line secure and intact? If not using a vacuum/pressure line from the manifold, what controls the regulator, and is it in proper order?
    You say you "set up" the fuel pressure, but it goes to another setting, and you have to set it again. Does the setting change physically in a visible manner? Do you simply need to "lock" the fuel pressure at the correct setting?

    Certainly others may have additional ideas...
    Last edited by Honolulu; 03-26-2019 at 09:37 PM.
    Charlie

    Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to add value to these threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same or similar problem stands on your shoulders.

  4. #4
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    even when I select ZA version/production, there is no 525i with turbo http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...BMW-525i&mg=11
    Alpine or Alpina ?
    What is the VIN ?
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  5. #5
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    BMW 525i Fuel Pressure Problems.

    Hi Shogun,

    Thanks for suggestions.
    I have fitted a new vacuum pipe to the manifold, and made sure no leaks.
    The piping is properly done as per factory, accept now where I fitted the fuel pressure regulator,
    but it's done right.
    Yes the vacuum pipe goes from the manifold to the FPR.
    I'll set the pressure on the FPR gauge to 34psi drive the car a few kms and stop check the pressure while the engine
    is running and the pressure on the gauge has dropped physically to say 25psi. I have hooked up a gas analyser and it is definitely lean,
    so it is not a faulty gauge. The FPR is locked by a lock nut, the only variance is between Idle and Full Open Throttle, otherwise it can't change .
    I am going to hook up a volt meter to the fuel pump tomorrow to see if there is a volt drop on the fuel pump feed.
    I should have done that first, but NO! I was thinking doesn't matter what pressure the fuel pump pumps, the FPR will regulate it,
    but obviously not.
    I am an Architect, and everything I know I learnt from my dad over the years, we were both petrol heads of note.
    My dad was with FORD for 29 years, started as appy and worked up to be the youngest Workshop Foreman and then Service Manager in SA
    in about 1968 and then with BMW for 10 years as Service Manager, but he was a Master Mechanic.
    But sometimes I wish I can ask him things when I get stuck, I know just enough to get me in trouble.
    The car stood for 15 years in his garage, so I'm also having an issue with the instrument cluster that comes and goes, it has no memory,
    it keeps the actual total mileage and up dates as I drive but the Trip meter zeros every time I switch off the car. Sometimes the fuel gauge and
    temp gauge and rev counter goes haywi, but when I push the car in the revs every thing comes on and works. I've replaced it with another
    second hand Instrument cluster, but same problem.

  6. #6
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    Hi,
    Thanks for reply,

    I wrote another explanation, but it disappeared.
    Yes, Ive replaced the Vacuum pipe from the manifold to the FPR.
    The Fuel piping is as per Factory . The only change is where I've fitted the Pressure gauge between the fuel rail and the adjustable fuel regulator.
    I had to fit the gauge, so I can see what's going on with the pressure.
    The FPR locks with a Lock nut, so when it's set to a certain pressure it cannot self adjust, the only adjusting it can do is between Idle and Full Open Throttle.
    I am going to fit a volt meter to the fuel pump tomorrow. I thought if you have a FPR that it would regulate the fuel pressure even if the fuel pump pressure
    drops within limits. The pump should be putting out about 7 BAR that's about 75psi. But yes I am going to check that tomorrow.
    By trial and error I've found that the car runs best on about 34psi at idle and 43psi at Full Open Throttle. When the pressure is right the car goes very well,
    that's why I'm not giving up.
    My Instrument cluster also comes and goes, the main mileage keeps track, but the trip meter cancels every time I switch off the car, Most of the time the cluster does not come on
    when I start the engine, but comes on when I push the car through the gears, say above 3500rpm. Sometimes the temp gauge, the fuel gauge and rev counter goes haywire.
    VIN 02789519
    The Turbo is an ALPINE TURBO.

    I also have an E30 325i 1990 it has 760 000kms on the clock and the engine has never been opened, it goes like a boeing.

    Thanks for your efforts to help, its much appreciated.

    Daniel

  7. #7
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    Your post did not disappear, it just takes a while till it appears, as you have less than 10 posts, then we mods have to manually approve the posts. Spam-o-matic of the forum. So just be patient.
    The car was produced in South Africa, unfortunately not much info from VIN decoder
    VIN ZBAHC180X02789519
    Prod. Date 1989-04-08
    Type 525I (ZAF)
    Series E34 (5 Series)
    Body Type LIM
    Steering RL
    Engine M20
    Displacement 2.50
    Power 0kw / 0hp
    Drive HECK
    Transmission Manual
    Colour ( )
    Upholstery ( )

    It has the M20 engine, no turbo, so maybe that was fitted later http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select?vin=2789519

    fuel pressure regulator is 3 bar , BMW # 13531711541 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=13_0293
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  8. #8
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    Hi,

    I had a bit of a problem Logging in.

    I found out that ALPINE did the turbo conversion straight after the car waspurchased. They did an absolute rubbish job,
    my dad had to fix allot of mistakes. Later I'll Explain.

    I have narrowed my problem down to the DME Control Module. I connected a voltmeter to my fuel pump supply, and found it gives me a
    maximum of 11,84 Volts, and then as I drive it sometimes drops down to 6V. Ialso checked voltage on my Head light and the same happens there.

    Do you think it can be the DME Module or maybe something else, I haven't priceda new DME Module yet but I cringe if I think how much it can be.

    I was hoping with my dad working for BMW for 11 years, that he might have hadone lying around somewhere, but no such luck.

    The car stood for many years, but just before my dad was diagnosed with a braintumor, he started working on the car, but I don't think he picked up
    the problem yet. He just replaced suspension part, rubber water pipes, tyres,and serviced etc. Only when I really started driving the car did I notice
    the problem. The problem is, I can't trust the car as it will die in the mostin-appropriate places, the Volt just drops and it dies, before I couldn'tfathom,
    but after connecting the Volt meter to the Fuel pump, I know immediately whathappening. Then it won't start for a while, and the a while or an hour later
    it starts as if nothing was wrong. I can also see there's no Fuel pressure asI've got a Pressure Gauge on the Fuel line.

    I've checked the alternator, it charges 14.2 V, anyway the car's never gave meflat battery problems. I also checked all the ground cables I can find.
    I thought it might be a loose ground cable.

    I
    see from your Specs that Fuel pressure from factoryshould be 3 bar, that's 42 Psi. Is that supposed to be 3 Bar at Idle or Fullopen throttle, I thought it should be 34 Psi as it was pulling fine on thatsetting. ( I was thumb sucking )
    Ill set it to 42 Psi now, I thought if the pressure is too high
    I might damage the fuel injectors.I can't thank you enough for your help in trying to diagnose this problem,any suggestions are welcomed and tried.

    Thanks.
    Daniel


  9. #9
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    There is quite a lot going on in these posts, but I think I read correctly that one of your problems is fluctuating system voltage? May I suggest looking into the voltage regulator, on the back of the alternator? Two screws to remove the protective cover, two screws to remove the regulator after that. You’ll see if the brushes are worn down or not, and go from there. $20 fix...
    O o
    ____________________________ ______________
    | BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! !!!!
    \_¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

  10. #10
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    Fluctuating Voltage

    Quote Originally Posted by theBMWbeast View Post
    There is quite a lot going on in these posts, but I think I read correctly that one of your problems is fluctuating system voltage? May I suggest looking into the voltage regulator, on the back of the alternator? Two screws to remove the protective cover, two screws to remove the regulator after that. You’ll see if the brushes are worn down or not, and go from there. $20 fix...

    Hi ,

    Thanks, I'll try it tomorrow, I however have tested the voltage from the battery and when the engine is running the Voltage on
    the battery is 14,3Volts, but at my headlight plug and Fuel pump it's 11,84 Volts max dropping down to 6 Volts and sometimes lower.
    I have not tested other points YET ! but assumed the other areas would also be low, because my dash instrument cluster comes and goes.

    Would'nt the battery go flat when driving if the Alternator only puts out 11,84 Volts or lower. ? The Battery voltage surely won't stay
    above 12 Volts. If car is switched off the battery voltage is 12,4 Volts but when idling it is 14,3 Volts, which sounds right. But I am going
    to check out the Regulator.
    Thanks.
    Daniel

  11. #11
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    Yeah, you have that right about the battery. I would test other points as you said, and see how multifaceted the problem is. You might have a few different problems, or one central one. You could have an LKM acting up, fuel pump relay needing replacement, and capacitors in the gauge cluster failing. All common things, or I could be completely off base. Test some more stuff and go from there.
    O o
    ____________________________ ______________
    | BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! !!!!
    \_¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

  12. #12
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    Hi,
    I've had all the capacitors replaced by me computer guy, but the cluster still does the same, sometimes when I start the engine the cluster will come on and work perfectly, other times, it won't come on , but it will suddenly come on when I drive and push the revs, say above 3500rpm, then if I slack off to pay at a toll, the instrument cluster will go off again. Every time I switch off the engine the TRIP meter zero's, but the MAIN Mileage keeps track. The speedo almost 99% of the time works but the Rev counter, fuel gauge and temp gauge does not always work.
    I have replaced the Fuel Pump Relay.
    What is an LKM ( sorry for the ignorance ) Do you think it could be the DME Control Module, or do you think the module is not getting the proper power.
    Thanks.

  13. #13
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    LKM is short for light kontrol module, it controls your headlights. Lot of electrical issues,I think you said you checked grounding points, so that's the easy things I know of out of the way. I mean, it's not out of the realm of possibility of having a faulty DME. I wouldn't know if all your problems would be encompassed by that. And as far as your whole turbo setup, I don't know if you just have a chip in the DME or something more that you might have to take into consideration if you want to swap in and test a known good working DME.

    Make sure grounds are good, wires aren't frayed, the simple stuff, before you dive into parts replacing. I'm not personally too well versed in the electronics side of the car, but that's how I would go about it.

  14. #14
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    I see here in my Manual in the Front Power Distribution Box is a No 13 Called LAMP CONTROL MODULE could that be the LKM Then there's a No 11. CHECK CONTROL MODULE.
    Oh I'm glad my E30 325i doesn't have all this electronic nonsense, exact same engine, but the 5 series has so much more nonsense.
    Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Yeah that’s the one, sometimes you have to resolder the contacts inside for intermittent headlight problems.
    O o
    ____________________________ ______________
    | BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! !!!!
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  16. #16
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    Hope you can get and peruse the ETM (Electrical Troubleshooting Manual) they are available online. Then you can trace power from the alternator to ... everywhere. More, you can start at a point where you have found the system voltage to be below spec, outline what else is served by the voltage, and verify volts at other similar points.

    I don't think it will turn out to be the LKM, but the box next to it under the back seat (my USA model, anyway) is the GM (General Module) and it is the main collection of relays sending volts throughout the car. There can be bad solder joints there and I'd ignore the LKM in favor of close inspection of the GM. Be aware you need to disconnect the battery first, then connect both battery cable together for a long time to ensure all capacitors are fully discharged, before you take out the GM. The procedure is described on the forum somewhere.

    Be glad also that you are conversant in the main language of this forum. It would be H - E - double chopsticks if you didn't. A non-USA car doesn't make it any easier either. This one is interesting already, but with a goodly supply of elbow grease, correct description of what you've done, we may actually be able to suss out the problem. It'll be something simple...
    Charlie

    Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to add value to these threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same or similar problem stands on your shoulders.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honolulu View Post
    I don't think it will turn out to be the LKM, but the box next to it under the back seat (my USA model, anyway) is the GM (General Module) and it is the main collection of relays sending volts throughout the car. There can be bad solder joints there and I'd ignore the LKM in favor of close inspection of the GM.
    do not confuse him, the LKM = light control module is located in the fuse box in engine bay, the GM = general module = ZKE = central chassis electronics is under rear seat left side. Next to the GM is the relay module.
    In the front fuse box are the LKM and CCM = check control module, items under rear seat http://bmwe32.masscom.net/johan/elec.../rearseat.html
    more in detail here in the ETM
    http://shark.armchair.mb.ca/~dave/BMW/e34/
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DANLOBO View Post
    Hi,

    I had a bit of a problem Logging in.

    I found out that ALPINE did the turbo conversion straight after the car waspurchased. They did an absolute rubbish job,
    my dad had to fix allot of mistakes. Later I'll Explain.

    I have narrowed my problem down to the DME Control Module. I connected a voltmeter to my fuel pump supply, and found it gives me a
    maximum of 11,84 Volts, and then as I drive it sometimes drops down to 6V. Ialso checked voltage on my Head light and the same happens there.


    Do you think it can be the DME Module or maybe something else, I haven't priceda new DME Module yet but I cringe if I think how much it can be.

    I was hoping with my dad working for BMW for 11 years, that he might have hadone lying around somewhere, but no such luck.

    The car stood for many years, but just before my dad was diagnosed with a braintumor, he started working on the car, but I don't think he picked up
    the problem yet. He just replaced suspension part, rubber water pipes, tyres,and serviced etc. Only when I really started driving the car did I notice
    the problem. The problem is, I can't trust the car as it will die in the mostin-appropriate places, the Volt just drops and it dies, before I couldn'tfathom,
    but after connecting the Volt meter to the Fuel pump, I know immediately whathappening. Then it won't start for a while, and the a while or an hour later
    it starts as if nothing was wrong. I can also see there's no Fuel pressure asI've got a Pressure Gauge on the Fuel line.

    I've checked the alternator, it charges 14.2 V, anyway the car's never gave meflat battery problems. I also checked all the ground cables I can find.
    I thought it might be a loose ground cable.

    I
    see from your Specs that Fuel pressure from factoryshould be 3 bar, that's 42 Psi. Is that supposed to be 3 Bar at Idle or Fullopen throttle, I thought it should be 34 Psi as it was pulling fine on thatsetting. ( I was thumb sucking )
    Ill set it to 42 Psi now, I thought if the pressure is too high
    I might damage the fuel injectors.I can't thank you enough for your help in trying to diagnose this problem,any suggestions are welcomed and tried.

    Thanks.
    Daniel
    I think you are barking up the wrong tree, sir.
    First, the fuel pump relay is served by the DME relay so that would be the next item upstream to investigate. Also, if voltage is low elsewhere that needs to be diagnosed first.
    The DMEs seldom fail.
    You are correct that fuel pressure should be 3 bar. It should remain thereabouts under all conditions. Not sure how you intend to readjust it but 42 is incorrect (for NA engines anyway) and I'd think the DME(watching the exhaust) will just compensate with a shorter duration. 42 psi won't hurt the injectors any.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DANLOBO View Post
    Hi,

    I had a bit of a problem Logging in.

    I found out that ALPINE did the turbo conversion straight after the car waspurchased. They did an absolute rubbish job,
    my dad had to fix allot of mistakes. Later I'll Explain.

    I have narrowed my problem down to the DME Control Module. I connected a voltmeter to my fuel pump supply, and found it gives me a
    maximum of 11,84 Volts, and then as I drive it sometimes drops down to 6V. Ialso checked voltage on my Head light and the same happens there.


    Do you think it can be the DME Module or maybe something else, I haven't priceda new DME Module yet but I cringe if I think how much it can be.

    I was hoping with my dad working for BMW for 11 years, that he might have hadone lying around somewhere, but no such luck.

    The car stood for many years, but just before my dad was diagnosed with a braintumor, he started working on the car, but I don't think he picked up
    the problem yet. He just replaced suspension part, rubber water pipes, tyres,and serviced etc. Only when I really started driving the car did I notice
    the problem. The problem is, I can't trust the car as it will die in the mostin-appropriate places, the Volt just drops and it dies, before I couldn'tfathom,
    but after connecting the Volt meter to the Fuel pump, I know immediately whathappening. Then it won't start for a while, and the a while or an hour later
    it starts as if nothing was wrong. I can also see there's no Fuel pressure asI've got a Pressure Gauge on the Fuel line.

    I've checked the alternator, it charges 14.2 V, anyway the car's never gave meflat battery problems. I also checked all the ground cables I can find.
    I thought it might be a loose ground cable.

    I
    see from your Specs that Fuel pressure from factoryshould be 3 bar, that's 42 Psi. Is that supposed to be 3 Bar at Idle or Fullopen throttle, I thought it should be 34 Psi as it was pulling fine on thatsetting. ( I was thumb sucking )
    Ill set it to 42 Psi now, I thought if the pressure is too high
    I might damage the fuel injectors.I can't thank you enough for your help in trying to diagnose this problem,any suggestions are welcomed and tried.

    Thanks.
    Daniel
    I think you are barking up the wrong tree, sir.
    First, the fuel pump relay is served by the DME relay so that would be the next item upstream to investigate. Also, if voltage is low elsewhere that needs to be diagnosed first. The DME only provides a ground path for those relays, not the supply of current.
    The DMEs seldom fail.
    You are correct that fuel pressure should be 3 bar. It should remain thereabouts under all conditions. Not sure how you intend to readjust it but 42 is incorrect (for NA engines anyway) and I'd think the DME(watching the exhaust) will just compensate with a shorter duration. 42 psi won't hurt the injectors any.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  19. #19
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    Thanks for your input guys,
    I've left the car for a while now, gave up ! but I'm back for more. Firstly, I connected the fuel pump direct on the battery, so it's getting full voltage, ( just to test )
    and the car went like a bomb, BUT ! then it started losing power and the turbo wasn't coming in, so I left it for a few weeks ( bit dishartned ).
    Day before Yesterday I decided to give it another bash, so I started the car, but the battery was a little underpowered, but the car started quite easily, I've got
    a BIG battery fitted. The car ran for awhile and then suddenly died, and would not start again. The battery still connected direct to battery, it was giving a good
    fuel pressure, so it was not fuel related. Then Yesterday I charged the battery fully, and left it. This morning I went to the car expecting it not to start, and it started
    first kick, and carried on running, as if nothing was ever wrong. I have now fitted the fuel pump ( in tank ) back to the way it should be fitted, and it ran fine.

    What baffles me, is the alternator charges 14,2V all the time, so a low battery should not influence the car to die and not start. But as soon as I charged the battery
    fully, everything works and car starts. The voltage on the Fuel Pump is 11,2V fluctuating, even if the battery is charging at 14,2V, I also checked the voltage in
    the cigarette lighter socket, and it is 13,8V up to 14,2V same as battery while engine running.

    I am SO' scared to take the car to an Auto Electrician, because I've seen what happens, when you get there and the whole dash is stripped with miles of
    wiring, and Tens of Thousands of Rands later, because they are replacing every thing and then it turns out to be a relay, and you have to pay for all
    the unnecessary parts. My dad always said, start with the cheap parts and work your way up, not as the dealers , who do it other way around.

    Thanks.
    Daniel

  20. #20
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    Hi,
    Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.

    I have written a new post , with explanation below. On 31/07/2019.

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