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Thread: retard m60 intake cams on m62b44

  1. #1
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    retard m60 intake cams on m62b44

    Hi there, I have e36 with m62b44 engine with cams from m60. I have boos it up to 12 psi but no changes in timing 100-200 in comparing with 7psi of boost. I thought it is due to Cams limit and decide to open intake cams early and turned 10 degree to the left counter clock wise. So, then tested my car again but no changes. What do you think about this guys?
    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
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  2. #2
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    I don't understand the question.
    Are you expecting the DME to retard timing and it doesn't?
    Why would it retard? Because of knock?
    Also, what is "timing 100-200"?

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    Sorry for that, let me clarify. I have standalone ECU which completely controlling all processes. I just wanted to increase Volumetric Efficiency. My current timing 100-200kmh is 10sec.
    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
    E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…

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    You advanced the cams, man. Rotate them in the other direction
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  5. #5
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    Advance cams mean you are turning it counter clock wise, that give you early openings of intake and early closing of intake. It should give you better VE and pick up your Dynamic Compression due to intake valves closing early. I tried that and fact is very bad lowend power and no changes in bottom end power.
    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
    E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dovlet View Post
    Advance cams mean you are turning it counter clock wise, that give you early openings of intake and early closing of intake. It should give you better VE and pick up your Dynamic Compression due to intake valves closing early. I tried that and fact is very bad lowend power and no changes in bottom end power.
    Dovlet the crankshaft turns clockwise. If you rotate cams counterclockwise you're retarding them, meaning it would take more rotation of the crank to achieve same valve events.
    Last edited by JimLev; 03-28-2019 at 12:24 AM. Reason: fixed your typo
    Diehard E39 driver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    Dovlet the crankshaft turns clockwise. If you rotate cams counterclockwise you're retarding them, meaning it would take more rotation of the crank to achieve same valve events.
    Sorry, that was typo. Not advance, retard cams.
    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
    E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…

  8. #8
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    I asume you checked for vac (boost) leaks, your BOV valve spring is good, and your fueling is right? Your injectors aren't maxing out? Fuel pressure? Detonation control?
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  9. #9
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    Ok, let me go through one more time.
    I Have stand alone ECU which controls all parameters such: boost, AFR, injectors & spark advance, knock and many other things. I have very good control on engine managing but cannot increase power. My fuel is 87 RON. I am increasing boost from 7psi to 12 psi and have no increasing on power. My measure is 100-200kmh which equal to 10-10.5sek. I assumed it is due to cams limits and decided to retard intake cams and increase dynamic compression increase which could help me, but even that my timing not changed.
    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
    E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…

  10. #10
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    I read all that. What I'm asking is if you made sure you aren't leaking boost, or your standalone is seeing wrong knocking or other sensors parameters, or such. Having retarded/advanced cams and seeing pretty much the same figures tells us that your mechanical factor isn't what's limiting you here (**). Even if you translated your typo to your train of thoughts and actually advanced the cams like I thought you had. What kind of bottom engine you've put together? What kind of catch can/crankcase pressure management are you using? Have you been datalogging parameters while making changes?
    Don't get frustrated on me, I'm just shooting in the dark from the other side of the world, so you can see if any of my suggestions serves your purpose and/or it's not something you've already covered. And if you covered, check it. As you make a typo on retard and advance, it's actually very easy to do the same error while live wrenching on the engine. I know I've done it, and I think you could have done it.
    The minute you think you're golden and can't make mistakes, you're in for a big f**kup.

    (**) unless your cams are stock, your cyl heads are stock and haven't been relieved of flow offending angles, and such)

    Also maybe you used too large a turbo or too large a primaries, or too large a downpipe and you're not building a pressure that results in increased velocity in your intake side.
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    I read all that. What I'm asking is if you made sure you aren't leaking boost, or your standalone is seeing wrong knocking or other sensors parameters, or such. Having retarded/advanced cams and seeing pretty much the same figures tells us that your mechanical factor isn't what's limiting you here (**). Even if you translated your typo to your train of thoughts and actually advanced the cams like I thought you had. What kind of bottom engine you've put together? What kind of catch can/crankcase pressure management are you using? Have you been datalogging parameters while making changes?
    Don't get frustrated on me, I'm just shooting in the dark from the other side of the world, so you can see if any of my suggestions serves your purpose and/or it's not something you've already covered. And if you covered, check it. As you make a typo on retard and advance, it's actually very easy to do the same error while live wrenching on the engine. I know I've done it, and I think you could have done it.
    The minute you think you're golden and can't make mistakes, you're in for a big f**kup.

    (**) unless your cams are stock, your cyl heads are stock and haven't been relieved of flow offending angles, and such)

    Also maybe you used too large a turbo or too large a primaries, or too large a downpipe and you're not building a pressure that results in increased velocity in your intake side.
    Thanks for your suggestions above. My boost is good with no leak. Knock sensors also works well.
    My turbo is holset hx40. It gives good boost but my power is not changing between 05 and 1bar. Another guy here had e36 with m60 or 62 engine non vanose and had the same problem. I supposed to think it is due to camshaft limits. The only i can to increase power is increase compression ratio to stock position 10:1. Currently my engine compression is 9:1.
    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
    E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…

  12. #12
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    Perhaps you have a clog on the exhaust side not letting the extra pressure through. Do you have cats? Are you on stock headers?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz540i View Post
    Perhaps you have a clog on the exhaust side not letting the extra pressure through. Do you have cats? Are you on stock headers?
    No cats, costume headers, no extra pressures. Only cams i guess is issue.
    e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
    E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…

  14. #14
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    If the situation is exactly the same with advanced or retarded cams then you can rule them partially out. There's no way in which things remains stationary doubling the boost unless for some reason you're not actually doubling the boost. Or you haven't ported your heads, or it's loosing velocity somewhere and you followed the "bigger is better" philosophy when reworking the intake ports. Have you flowed your heads? are they stock? Valves? have you undercut them, profiled them, port blended the heads? remove offending edges and burrs, at least?
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  15. #15
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    My car made more power everytime I increased the boost. I'm at 16 psi now, and may be at or near where more boost won't do much to increase power without going more cam.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by philly98540 View Post
    My car made more power everytime I increased the boost. I'm at 16 psi now, and may be at or near where more boost won't do much to increase power without going more cam.
    But he's fixed on parroting that he needs more cam, when it's clearly an exhaust side issue IMHO and to the best of my understainding. Advance/retard and all the same with more boost, I read that as either the turbo's not working as it should, or there's something preventing the boost from actually dinamically force feeding the cyls. Glad to hear a FI expert on my side here.
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

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