Transmission Judder

[purplecty]

My e38 is a 3.99 740i shorty sport with the high stall torque converter. I have noticed the low rpm(holding around 1800rpm) trans shuddering with a low droning noise after driving for a while and getting the trans to operating temperature that usually points to the torque converter being at fault (Big thanks to Timm on his case study - https://www.meeknet.co.uk/e38/BMW_E3...dy_Misfire.htm). Trans failsafe came up and I lost all gears when parking the car after first noticing these symptoms, but after restarting the car I was able to get gears back. I immediately ordered 2 tubes of dr. tranny lubeguard and purchased 2 gallons of Valvoline max life which shows on the bottle it meets the LT71141 spec. I also read and cleared the attached error code.
My trans has around 240k miles and shifts perfect otherwise. I changed the fluid and filter(filtran) around 30k ago with Amsoil and has been shifting perfect and still does just has the shudders. Fast forward to today, I drove to a friends garage, shut it down and when started back up and attempting to get it on the ramps it threw the TFS message again with no gears, which after restsrting 2x the gears came back alive. We cracked the drain plug and drained the trans fluid and a gallon came out. Let the trans cool using a fan on the gearbox to help. I read the EGS errors while waiting for the gearbox to cool down and sure enough the same error was stored. We then refilled the trans at 40-50c gearbox temperature with 2 tubes of the dr. tranny lubeguard and it took a gallon of maxlife back in. So far, the tranny has shifted smooth and the shuddering with the low droning noise at 1800rpm has not happend yet, but time will tell if this does not pop back up. Is the error I have attached a solenoid electrical error? I plan on scanning it again after a few good drives to see of the error comes back...

[racer2086]

Ok, so after having been there done that with these transmissions, I'd say to spend the effort and money on ZF lifeguard 5 fluid. I had maxlife in mine as it came up to rebuild, and I do think the fluid does make a difference.

I in particular was losing gears after long runs at high speed on the highway. Coming down to a stop, it would seem to slip out of gear and not have any grab until the revs increased and it would grab. Then, one day it downshifted getting on the highway and when I got off, it was dead.

If your torque converter is fairly new, the judder may not be that, but rather an internal pressure issue or the clutches. I had a 2-3 shudder in the trans itself for a good few years before the rebuild. That wasn't my TC, but rather the clutches.

Long story short, you are on borrowed time at 240k. I would put the ZF Lifeguard 5 in it ~$200, and you may get another 4-6k out of it. That's what I got. Treat it like a baby.

[purplecty]

Ok, so after having been there done that with these transmissions, I'd say to spend the effort and money on ZF lifeguard 5 fluid. I had maxlife in mine as it came up to rebuild, and I do think the fluid does make a difference.

I in particular was losing gears after long runs at high speed on the highway. Coming down to a stop, it would seem to slip out of gear and not have any grab until the revs increased and it would grab. Then, one day it downshifted getting on the highway and when I got off, it was dead.

If your torque converter is fairly new, the judder may not be that, but rather an internal pressure issue or the clutches. I had a 2-3 shudder in the trans itself for a good few years before the rebuild. That wasn't my TC, but rather the clutches.

Long story short, you are on borrowed time at 240k. I would put the ZF Lifeguard 5 in it ~$200, and you may get another 4-6k out of it. That's what I got. Treat it like a baby.

I agree with the ZF fluid but at 240k, I just feel it may have been money potentially thrown away if it didn't help the issue. So far it has not shuddered once and there is has been no droning noise. With the maxlife and dr tranny it has been perfect. Drove on my 35 mile highway commute to work at up to 100 mph speeds and it did not miss a beat. If it goes out I will definitely be fixing it by either getting a good used low mileage trans from my local BMW partout guy or going with a 6speed manual swap...

[racer2086]

The primary reason why it feels better is likely the Dr. Tranny. That's a friction modifier. I thought the ZF fluid would be a waste on my dying trans, but for $200 I got another 6k miles out of the trans. I'm sure it wouldn't have got that with more Maxlife. I will NOT be using anything other that ZF in my rebuilt one. And I will change it every 50k. $200 is cheap money for 50k miles.

[purplecty]

The primary reason why it feels better is likely the Dr. Tranny. That's a friction modifier. I thought the ZF fluid would be a waste on my dying trans, but for $200 I got another 6k miles out of the trans. I'm sure it wouldn't have got that with more Maxlife. I will NOT be using anything other that ZF in my rebuilt one. And I will change it every 50k. $200 is cheap money for 50k miles.

We will see how long this round lasts. If it gets me another 10-20k I will use some higher quality fluid with another 2 tubes of dr tranny...

[Chamberlin]

Might be too late for this 5HP24, but I always change out the pressure regulator with the TransGo kit (available on eBay). I've done 3 so far, and about to do my 4th soon. Extra insurance to make sure wayward pressure spikes don't take out your A drum. I don't think this will help your shuddering, but just wanted to mention it. Your clutches are probably toast at this mileage. It's ready for a full rebuild.

[purplecty]

You are probably right I have a guy who has a used sport rebuilt trans with 14k on it since rebuild with all paper work from a part out that had bad guides. Might be worth just snatching it up but it has been shifting very smoothly so far...

[georgebest]

Ok, so after having been there done that with these transmissions, I'd say to spend the effort and money on ZF lifeguard 5 fluid. I had maxlife in mine as it came up to rebuild, and I do think the fluid does make a difference.

I in particular was losing gears after long runs at high speed on the highway. Coming down to a stop, it would seem to slip out of gear and not have any grab until the revs increased and it would grab. Then, one day it downshifted getting on the highway and when I got off, it was dead.

If your torque converter is fairly new, the judder may not be that, but rather an internal pressure issue or the clutches. I had a 2-3 shudder in the trans itself for a good few years before the rebuild. That wasn't my TC, but rather the clutches.

Long story short, you are on borrowed time at 240k. I would put the ZF Lifeguard 5 in it ~$200, and you may get another 4-6k out of it. That's what I got. Treat it like a baby.

I think the Pentosin ATF1 is the same as ZF Lifeguard 5, if you want to save some money.

- - - Updated - - -

About the Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder, both Racer and I had tried it and it works. In my case I need to re-add it in every 4-6 months tho, planning to try their long term solution soon. Maybe I can get a year out from the torque converter before replacing it.

[purplecty]

I think the Pentosin ATF1 is the same as ZF Lifeguard 5, if you want to save some money.

- - - Updated - - -

About the Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder, both Racer and I had tried it and it works. In my case I need to re-add it in every 4-6 months tho, planning to try their long term solution soon. Maybe I can get a year out from the torque converter before replacing it.

Good info! Thanks for the feedback!

[racer2086]

Might be too late for this 5HP24, but I always change out the pressure regulator with the TransGo kit (available on eBay). I've done 3 so far, and about to do my 4th soon. Extra insurance to make sure wayward pressure spikes don't take out your A drum. I don't think this will help your shuddering, but just wanted to mention it. Your clutches are probably toast at this mileage. It's ready for a full rebuild.

Agree. The clutches are nearly gone. You've got some friction modifier in there now to limp it along, but you've got the warning sign.

I put the TransGo kit in mine right before it died. Personally, I don't think it did anything. They say when you take the valve body apart, you can gently take a pick or tool and feel for a ledge. I didn't have any ledge, so I think the TransGo was pointless. Then my trans grenaded when downshifting on the highway 6k miles later. I think for the most part, ZF fixed the ledging issue in later transmissions, at least that's what Eriksson said.

You are probably right I have a guy who has a used sport rebuilt trans with 14k on it since rebuild with all paper work from a part out that had bad guides. Might be worth just snatching it up but it has been shifting very smoothly so far...

Buy it. You will not get 10k out of your current trans. You will kick yourself for passing it up. How much? A rebuilt/rebuild is probably 3k or more. Then it's just a matter of a simple swap.

I think the Pentosin ATF1 is the same as ZF Lifeguard 5, if you want to save some money.

- - - Updated - - -

About the Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder, both Racer and I had tried it and it works. In my case I need to re-add it in every 4-6 months tho, planning to try their long term solution soon. Maybe I can get a year out from the torque converter before replacing it.

I forget which fluid is which. But FCP sells the Lifeguard 5 and it is nearly if not exactly the same as OEM. It smells OEM and the transmission went right back to the same "shift feel" and TC grumble at the same RPM and frequency as before my switch to Maxlife. Looking back on it, I do regret trying to save...what...$100 by going to Maxlife. The stuff is still pricey when you have to buy 2-3 gallons.

Dr. Tranny is a temporary fix. For mildly worn TCs, it'll work and may last a while. Mine I got maybe 7k out of it. They say not to add more than 2 tubes of stuff to your transmission. I imagine too much friction modifier is possible and may accelerate wear due to all the extra particulate in there.

[Sabreslight]

Damn I'm glad i found this thread, My 01 had 200'ish miles on it when the a drum cracked leaving it only in failsafe, so i ending up finding a guy in chicago that is selling me a 24k rebuilt trans and now i know what not to use in it. Good tips here.

[purplecty]

I just checked errors after 100 miles and so far no errors are stored in the EGS. I'm pretty sure I still hear a slight droning sound at 1500-2k rpm which I am assuming is coming from the trans but not 100% sure now...

[racer2086]

I think you were getting some clutch slippage, which you resolved with some new fluid and friction modifier. I would not beat on it at all.

[purplecty]

I think you were getting some clutch slippage, which you resolved with some new fluid and friction modifier. I would not beat on it at all.

On my way to work the trans shifts started feeling a bit rough and shakey towards the end of my route. Looks like I will be moving towards a new trans sooner rather than later...

[racer2086]

How many miles since the fluid?

I want everyone on here to remember that you're saving maybe what $50 using fluid other than Lifeguard 5? $100 maybe? Not worth it on a healthy transmission!

[georgebest]

How many miles since the fluid?
I want everyone on here to remember that you're saving maybe what $50 using fluid other than Lifeguard 5? $100 maybe? Not worth it on a healthy transmission!

Racer, not to argue with you but ZF does not produce oil. They are just putting their label on Pentosin.

[racer2086]

Ok so I was reading about this online and Someone asked ZF about that and they said the oil was specifically formulated for ZF. Additionally, ZF confirmed that Pentosin makes it for them but could not say it is the same as the Pentosin labeled fluid.

Anyway, I just got my car back finally and it drives perfectly, so I'm all about that ZF now to make it stay that way

[Sabreslight]

Ok so I was reading about this online and Someone asked ZF about that and they said the oil was specifically formulated for ZF. Additionally, ZF confirmed that Pentosin makes it for them but could not say it is the same as the Pentosin labeled fluid.

Anyway, I just got my car back finally and it drives perfectly, so I'm all about that ZF now to make it stay that way

Congrats on getting the car back, hopefully it stays running great.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[purplecty]

Mine has been driving fine around town. Maybe I just panicked?

[racer2086]

What I noticed with mine before it went out was rough up shifting on the highway. Especially at higher rpms. There would be what I would describe as shift flares that would happen. Then one day it was over.

[purplecty]

What I noticed with mine before it went out was rough up shifting on the highway. Especially at higher rpms. There would be what I would describe as shift flares that would happen. Then one day it was over.

I am prepared for it to fail and have another trans ready when it does...

[Narlift]

How many miles since the fluid?

I want everyone on here to remember that you're saving maybe what $50 using fluid other than Lifeguard 5? $100 maybe? Not worth it on a healthy transmission!

100%! +1

[georgebest]

[QUOTE=racer2086;30254356 Anyway, I just got my car back finally and it drives perfectly, so I'm all about that ZF now to make it stay that way [/QUOTE]

That's all what matters, great news!

[purplecty]

Ok so I was reading about this online and Someone asked ZF about that and they said the oil was specifically formulated for ZF. Additionally, ZF confirmed that Pentosin makes it for them but could not say it is the same as the Pentosin labeled fluid.

Anyway, I just got my car back finally and it drives perfectly, so I'm all about that ZF now to make it stay that way

What was the issue?

[purplecty]

Just picked up a rebuilt trans with 14000 miles on it came out of a 2001 740 I sport package and the paperwork that shows the rebuild Costing over 3K