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Thread: Replaced and moved convertible motor to trunk - can't get it to work though.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    2003 BMW Z4 2.5i

    Replaced and moved convertible motor to trunk - can't get it to work though.

    Hello all,

    I'm sure many of you have just about had it with convertible top motor replacement problems, and are likely to send me to the resources that are out there, but trust me, I'm posting here after poring over all the resources I could find, and now I do need help.
    I'll try to be very specific about my issues, to avoid anyone wasting time on making suggestions that I have already ruled out.

    I bought my first BMW, a 2003 Z4 2.5i just before winter, knowing that the top motor doesn't work.
    As expected, the motor was completely rusted out.
    I researched all the threads and videos about replacing and moving it to the trunk/boot and ended up taking the top off completely (wasn't able to do it without removing it).
    After putting in the new motor and bolting the bits in place, the roof is not opening or closing. Very few of the guides have much info about putting it back together.
    Here are my troubleshooting notes - I hope someone here can help me with the specific advice I need to get it working.
    Some of my questions might be noob questions, but that's because this job is probably the biggest one I have done to date on a car, and some things that may be so obvious to the makers of the guides and videos that they don't bother to mention them, may not be obvious to me.

    * Microswitch of the trunk shelf is activated with some paper wedged in there.
    * Red handle is in the correct position.
    * Windshield latch mechanism is working.
    * Motor is whirring when its turn comes, but the top doesn't move.
    * I opened the air release screw under the bowden switch mechanism, and did get a bit of a hiss of air coming out, after reading on the internet that perhaps air needs to be bled.


    When I reconnected the hydraulic lines, I put them in the same positions that they were on my old pump, but someone on the internet pointed out that the numbers on the pump block should match the numbers on the lines.
    However, I don't have numbers on my lines - at least not ones I can see...
    I looked at the old motor, and indeed the numbers there seem to be on the opposite side. i.e. if numbers 11 and 13 are by the left outlet on the new pump, they are by the right outlet on the old one.

    Question 1: Am I correct in assuming that I need to switch the lines over?


    I didn't get new washers for the hydraulic connectors, but since this will be the 3rd time I'm reconnecting them, maybe I should.

    I found a hydraulic top repair kit for $88 that includes them, but haven't been able to find them alone...
    https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/614...t-54347114081/
    Question 2: Can anyone point me to a source for the washers alone?


    In all my attempts to get it to work, I lost some hydraulic fluid, so I'm assuming I need to fill some up.
    Question 3: How do I fill hydraulic fluid? Do I need to undo the metal cable clamp around the plastic tank? How do I prevent spillage if I do this? How do I know what level to fill it to? Will it be ok if I use some of the fluid out of the old motor?


    I also noticed that the green and blue wires were connected on opposite sides on the new motor compared to the old one - I'm assuming I need to switch those over as well.
    Question 4: If I try to operate the motor with the wires connected incorrectly, could it cause any harm? will it result in any re-setting needed?


    In my last frantic search for info, I found the following text in one of the guides: "Banjo bolts have a hole on one side of the bolt that MUST align with the hydraulic hoses at the finish of tightening the bolt. Draw or score a small mark on the head of each banjo bolt to provide a visual reference of the proper alignment of the banjo bolt’s fluid hole with the hydraulic lines."
    Question 5: Assuming this is correct, what do I do if the bolt tightens to a specific angle which results in the hoses pointing the wrong way? In the new position in the trunk there is not enough slack if the hose ends up pointing downwards...

    And just a final wondering - why on earth would there be two different motors for the same function that work entirely differently? I bought my new one from the official BMW parts supply, suitable for my VIN.
    And also - why would a banjo fitting not have a groove all around the inside circumference to ensure that there will be flow no matter what angle the bolt is when you tighten it? (or maybe it does have a groove and the quote in question 5 is bullshit?)

    Thank you to everyone who has posted and participated in sharing information about this repair - your advice is really valuable!


  2. #2
    Join Date
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    2003 2.5 BMW Z4
    You have to moved the lines from the dead motor to your new motor.

    I know of no source for the friggin washers other than the costly kit, maybe some other person does??

    Look at the top center of the new motor/pump (the plastic part with the hydo fluid) you should see a copper/brass screw. Remove and top off there. go to a drug store and look for the plastic part of needle (they won't sell you a actual needle) I wouldn't use the fluid from the old motor.

    Yes, they changed out the wires on the pumps. Forget location and use color green lead from car to green wire on pump. Blue to blue. I don't believe a cross wire here would hurt the new motor.

    I did this top on and my wire hydo lines were ok. In that, I had no issues with either the hydo lines or wires being connected.....so I can't help you with that.

    You need to have the pump relocated to the trunk area right behind the driver. The Pump should be plastic top UP and slightly titled forward towards the front of the car. If the pump is on it's side or plastic top down it won't function.

  3. #3
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    Mar 2019
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    Thanks!

    I have relocated the pump to the trunk. The only way the pump can be positioned is with the plastic up - the hydraulic lines aren't long enough for it to go the other way round, at least not with the wires-passage hole in the position where I put it (constrained by my ability to access the area with my Dremel tool to the rear of the plastic shelf mount... I wasn't able to figure out how to dismantle the left plastic shelf mount to access the area. Got the bolt at the back of the piece, and the torx screw at the front of it, but it appears to be held in place by another fastener in the middle that I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to release....)

    I've also just finished reading all of Celticrider's convertible top thread, with all the patient advice from tekoo.
    I'm kinda hoping that tekoo can respond here too!

    What is the correct fluid to use in the motor?
    I've seen from some more reading that I should fill to about 3/4 the height of the plastic container when the roof is in the open position.
    I've also learned about the priming process in which I need to run the motor 10 seconds or so in both directions with the red handle released in order to purge air from the system. Want to make sure my lines are correctly connected first though.
    I wasn't aware how important it was to have the top not moving in the closed position whilst the hydraulic lines were disconnected. I did have some roof movement, and I did lose some fluid which now I need to refill, and purge the air that probably got in.

    I've decided that I will purchase the complete kit, which does lead me to my next questions:
    1. How do I replace the banjo fitting on the end of the hydraulic hose? Don't want to be guessing and end up causing damage.
    2. I understand that it is critical that the banjos sit on the bolt at the correct height for alignment with the holes, but does it also matter which direction the lines are pointing in relative to the bolt's rotation?
    3. If I understood correctly from the Celticrider/Tekoo thread, if I fitted the hydraulic lines the wrong way round, this can simply be fixed by connecting the wires the other way round too? If this is true then I don't need to change the hydraulic lines over - I can just switch wires?

    Thanks again!
    Jeremy

  4. #4
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    had to go and look this up for you on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k31nU0FWmtE

    Read the comments under the film on the left had side. He talks about the hydo lines and banjo bolts.

    Since you already did the top simply fast forward to the part about wiring the motor and changing the hydo lines.

    hope this helps

  5. #5
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    Thanks again,
    I'll get on it and come back to report (hopefully) success.

  6. #6
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    OK, update in case anyone cares:
    I topped up the fluid, switched the hydraulic lines over, installed new banjo bolts and crush washers, purged the air and then topped up a little more fluid, and now everything is working properly!
    Motor is now located in the trunk, in its original casing. I cut grooves in the top to pass the lines and wires through, joined a bracket on to the ground bolt that's down there and ziptied it in place.
    Thanks Jas1169 for your help! Just in time for nice weather (I hope...)

    There are a bunch of parts in that convertible top replacement kit that I have no idea where they are supposed to go - just curious if anyone knows?

    Also, I should add that the washers in the kit were all of identical thickness, whilst the shop manual specifically shows that the one closest to the bolt should be a thinner one than the other two.
    I didn't know what to do with this, and almost put back an old thinner washer, but in the end I used the new ones and it all worked fine, so perhaps the warnings about the exact washer thickness are a bit over-worrying and the tolerances there are not so sensitive.
    Last edited by JeremyCronin; 03-27-2019 at 07:38 PM.

  7. #7
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    I know on the United Kingdom Z4 website, there are several freelance Z4 mechanics that actually specialize in convertible top motor repair , relocation.I have a 2003 Z4 2.5 soft top. I haven't put the top down since last summer. The last time I used it I had to help it up and down. Just curious as to whether there is anyone in Southeast Georgia or South Carolina that is able to to the work.The car had been kept in a garage most of it's life with only 56,000 on the speedometer.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCronin View Post
    OK, update in case anyone cares:
    I topped up the fluid, switched the hydraulic lines over, installed new banjo bolts and crush washers, purged the air and then topped up a little more fluid, and now everything is working properly!
    Motor is now located in the trunk, in its original casing. I cut grooves in the top to pass the lines and wires through, joined a bracket on to the ground bolt that's down there and ziptied it in place.
    Thanks Jas1169 for your help! Just in time for nice weather (I hope...)

    There are a bunch of parts in that convertible top replacement kit that I have no idea where they are supposed to go - just curious if anyone knows?

    Also, I should add that the washers in the kit were all of identical thickness, whilst the shop manual specifically shows that the one closest to the bolt should be a thinner one than the other two.
    I didn't know what to do with this, and almost put back an old thinner washer, but in the end I used the new ones and it all worked fine, so perhaps the warnings about the exact washer thickness are a bit over-worrying and the tolerances there are not so sensitive.
    Jeremy, HOLD on to those parts. You have the connectors both upper & Lower that holds the hydo lines into the lifter pumps. You also have white plastic plugs which your suppose to plug into the lifter pumps if your not going to reconnect the hydo lines. The little black string is (what a joke) what your suppose to use to re-waterproof the black plastic case if you were going to remount the hydo pump in it's original location.

    You might need those hydo lines connectors to the pump if you ever need to change out a line or pull the lifter and during the process either lose or damage one of these connector parts you removed.

  9. #9
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    2003 Z4 E-85
    I inquired of a retired BMW mechanic who now works for himself if he had any experience with top repair. He quickly said his last job was his last job working on tops. His customer bought all the required parts off the internet and took them to him. He squawked bloody murder about that as the customer was sent the wrong kit. So, I'm back to square one on fixing my top. Since the top of a Miata I drove for over 100K miles had a manual top, I should be used to handling the BMW top manually. It just galls me to have a nice-looking car with so many problems which keep popping up. Namely, bad coil, bad air bag sensor, new tires, no air conditioning, no heat, no air conditiioning again and facing a $2200 bill for rebuilding the heater box. Where will it all end? All these problems encountered by 80K miles and the car was a one owner always garaged, too.
    Last edited by RogerC493; 04-27-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  10. #10
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    Similar problem

    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyCronin View Post
    OK, update in case anyone cares:
    I topped up the fluid, switched the hydraulic lines over, installed new banjo bolts and crush washers, purged the air and then topped up a little more fluid, and now everything is working properly!
    Motor is now located in the trunk, in its original casing. I cut grooves in the top to pass the lines and wires through, joined a bracket on to the ground bolt that's down there and ziptied it in place.
    Thanks Jas1169 for your help! Just in time for nice weather (I hope...)

    There are a bunch of parts in that convertible top replacement kit that I have no idea where they are supposed to go - just curious if anyone knows?

    Also, I should add that the washers in the kit were all of identical thickness, whilst the shop manual specifically shows that the one closest to the bolt should be a thinner one than the other two.
    I didn't know what to do with this, and almost put back an old thinner washer, but in the end I used the new ones and it all worked fine, so perhaps the warnings about the exact washer thickness are a bit over-worrying and the tolerances there are not so sensitive.
    I have the same problem.. Please help. I bought a new motor/pump unit. Removed the cab and switched the old motor to the new one. I hooked up the hyd lines and cables EXACTLY as they were mounted on the old motor, wrong? Also I did not line up the banjo bolts, since I thought that it does not matter? Is not that the whole idea with banjo bolts?

    Anyway. Installed everything as it was with the previous motor, and put the cab and motor back in the car. But when I tried it, I could hear the electric motor spool but NO movement what so ever. Same thing when I had the cab out and tried it with a 12v battery, I could hear the electric motor spool but no movement - Is it suppose to move when disassembled from the car?

    Questions:

    Does it matter (of course it matter but) if I connect the hoses wrong? My idea was that in worst case the cab will move in the opposite direction?
    Does it matter (of course it matter but) if I connect the electric cables wrong? My idea was that in worst case the cab will move in the opposite direction?
    Do I need to line up the banjos?
    I read that you had to bleed the hoses. Should you do it with the red wire pulled or in "normal" mode?

    What else could be wrong? I can see zero movement right now.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    From posts on replacing the top motor... it appears the new motors requires that the hydraulic lines need to be reversed from their original configuration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Hey

    1st did you relocate the pump to the trunk........the only reason I'm asking is because, down the line it will make your working on this system eazier.

    Since you installed a new pump/motor. the hydo lines should install exactly like the old pump...same pairing same right/left locations.

    Wire may differ (original pumps wiring was one way and a few years later replacement pumps changed color locations). However, just remember to stay with same color red to red, green to green, do NOT cross color.

    emgage emergency by-pass (red handle in trunk) now open /close top manually 3 or 4 times. this should self bleed system. When done REMEMBER to reset by-pass to normal


    If you moved motor/pump to the trunk take emergency by-pass off of the pump/motor.

    NOTE as you complete each of the above steps try lowering the top from inside of the car with the buttom.

    Ok, with the emergency by-pass still disconnected from the pump let's do a simple pressure test on your system. Get into car, power her up and press top down. The top should release from the front windshield frame and stop. Ok, with either power on or off can you manually push down the top??? If you have a fully pressurized system it should feel like your pressing on a brick wall.

  13. #13
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    I have yet to tackle my top because mine is in the down position and I can't get it up. The red cable does not work. Sooner or later I'm gonna get it up ,regardless , if I have to cut a hydraulic line to release pressure.

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