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Thread: Excessive oil consumption not many miles driven...

  1. #1
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    Excessive oil consumption not many miles driven...

    Last year did a lot of preventive maintenance fixes, problems when oil pump failed, had what sounded like lifter noise seemed confined to right top of motor. Drove back to Vegas from bay area topped of the oil with another quart. Not many more miles since that trip, have added another 3 quarts and no idea where it's going. Didn't check actual miles from drive after back in Vegas but has to be less than 1000. This is the post after returning last year...

    "Oil pump failed, maybe causing lifter(s) damage due to low oil pressure, that probably affected the vanos at the same time. Couldn't pin point engine noises before knowing the oil pump had major issues, now seems confined to the top of the motor. Oil pump removed machined metal surfaces scouring areas that should be smooth as glass. The main gear supposed to move freely wouldn't, top of that has major metal gouges. The piston froze in place and driving gear also suffered from shavings in fine pieces of metal. Some found in the filter, none in the bottom of the oil pan. Low oil pressure probably affected the lifter(s) (guessing) still noise coming from top of the motor. Was able to drive the car from the bay area back to Vegas no problems, ruled out any rod or bearing damage. Car is actually running very strong other that what sounds to be a lifter or? Not sure until it's opened up, the sound is really annoying"...

    Curious if any of you have an idea where 3 quarts could have gone in est under 1000 miles? Oil changed before drive back to Vegas down about 1/2 qt before the drive. Added 1qt about a month after returning, haven't driven it much because the noise on top is really annoying and seems to now be on both sides top of motor. Motor running strong put an est 700 miles not positive didn't confirm but just added another qt last week when the check oil light came on again. That is a total of 4 qts. After adding the first qt after returning from the bay area added two more at different times, one was a snake oil fix to quite the noise knew it wouldn't work and didn't. Seems weird car runs strong, not smoking, no oil drips, or puddles and blow by the rings seems excessive but 3 qts less than 1000 miles seems very excessive, and now the top of the motor has the ticking sound on both sides, TCGs done, havent had the time to tear into it, just curious if you have an idea where 3qts could go in under 1000 miles and probably closer to 700 miles? IM stumped...appreciate any thoughts...the ticking sound is maddening...

  2. #2
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    I would do a leak down test that will give exact information on top end condition, if the numbers were ok I would replace the pcv plate on the back of the intake manifold unless it has been replaced if it had I would run lubrimoly engine flush and bump up the oil weight

  3. #3
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    Can you tell us more about the oil pump failure and fix? How long did you drive it with a bad pump? How did you discover it was bad? Did you get another pump or try to fix the old one?

    And when you say the piston was frozen, do you mean the pressure release valve in the pump? Was that replaced as part of the whole assembly or did you try to repair it too?

    The reason I ask all those questions is because low oil pressure can continue to cause lots of problems, and noises like those you're hearing. I wouldn't drive the car at all with low oil level or low pressure (unless you plan on replacing the engine before too long, which might be what you have to do). Making sure the oil pressure is good is of more immediate importance than figuring out the cause of the leak.

    For example, if bits of metal made it to the filter, they might still be in the passage way to the filter, causing a blockage. And they might have made it past the filter (perhaps when the filter was changed, if that wasn't done real carefully). If metal made it past the filter, it will flow into smaller and smaller passages until it gets stuck somewhere where it will probably restrict flow.

    Since you said the noises were from many places the problem sounds systemic, which points to the pump, the pressure release valve, the oil filter assembly or the tubes to/from it.

    If your bottom plastic engine cover is off, there's a chance that oil is coming out of one of those hoses to the ground. So the two symptoms (low pressure and missing oil) could be related.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by R Shaffner; 03-17-2019 at 09:41 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclausen View Post
    I would do a leak down test that will give exact information on top end condition, if the numbers were ok I would replace the pcv plate on the back of the intake manifold unless it has been replaced if it had I would run lubrimoly engine flush and bump up the oil weight
    Thank you for the reply will do the leak down test too...pcv was replaced when all other repairs done at the same time, vc gaskets, cooling hoses, oil cooler valve, belts, starter and a few others...


    Quote Originally Posted by R Shaffner View Post
    Can you tell us more about the oil pump failure and fix? How long did you drive it with a bad pump? How did you discover it was bad? Did you get another pump or try to fix the old one?

    And when you say the piston was frozen, do you mean the pressure release valve in the pump? Was that replaced as part of the whole assembly or did you try to repair it too?

    The reason I ask all those questions is because low oil pressure can continue to cause lots of problems, and noises like those you're hearing. I wouldn't drive the car at all with low oil level or low pressure (unless you plan on replacing the engine before too long, which might be what you have to do). Making sure the oil pressure is good is of more immediate importance than figuring out the cause of the leak.

    For example, if bits of metal made it to the filter, they might still be in the passage way to the filter, causing a blockage. And they might have made it past the filter (perhaps when the filter was changed, if that wasn't done real carefully). If metal made it past the filter, it will flow into smaller and smaller passages until it gets stuck somewhere where it will probably restrict flow.

    Since you said the noises were from many places the problem sounds systemic, which points to the pump, the pressure release valve, the oil filter assembly or the tubes to/from it.

    If your bottom plastic engine cover is off, there's a chance that oil is coming out of one of those hoses to the ground. So the two symptoms (low pressure and missing oil) could be related.

    Good luck!

    Had been doing preventive maintance on cooling and oil leaks, vc gaskets, hoses, oil cooler valve, was the main repairs, after all done back together test drive starter failed, it just quit. Replaced it and the new starter failed, bad job from factory second reman starter wires touching. After that replaced third test drive starts making a loud ticking metal to metal sound top of motor w/ low oil pressure. Car is running really rough and metal to metal sound, cant decypher where sound is comming from. Figured oil pump first place to look, after removing took it apart and found surfaces should be smooth as glass scoured metal to metal, it was fried and yes pressure release valve frozen in place, gears inside also metal to metal, bought a new pump old one too far gone. When new pump in car running perfect except the loud noise top of motor, had to get back to Vegas after spending a month in the BA with problem after problem finally fixed. It was running fine after new pump in, drove perfect noise annoying. There was no low oil pressure now its actually running really well, the oil consumption after getting back was another surprise. Before driving back to the BA the oil was changed twice to ensure cleaned out, and the original shavings were so fine and few it didnt look to be an issue. When the oil pump failed car was driven about 10 miles to get back, running but very rough, sounded like lifters...after new oil pump in sound remains seems to have moved to both sides of top of motor, first thought was damage to lifters, guess its going to be the first place to look. No oil leaking anywhere and there may be a chance the top is fried more than I think. I think the original low oil pressure caused metal to metal top of motor and is worse than I originally thought and think tearing it apart is what I need to do, wishful thinking now out the window its an easy fix, I have to bite the bullet...fix it or replace it...was planning to tear into it just no time with health issues, the more thought ive given it think its time to do the M5 upgrade by Redshift, not leaking oil but using so much not smoking is suprising, guess opening it up will answer the question I was afraid to see, and really has to be done...

    appreciate both of you`re responses to help, reality just set in, there is no easy fix...its the dreaded bigger than hoped for problem...

    Thanks guys
    Last edited by SCRSUVS; 03-17-2019 at 02:28 PM.

  5. #5
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    Sorry for the late reply. If you think metal bits have gotten all through the engine, buying another used one might be the best option. Good luck!

  6. #6
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    Fail to understand how a missing lower engine cover could affect anything! Not sure what two tubes you are referring to (hopefully not AC condensation drain) but if cover were missing , by your theory oil would go to ground. If cover were in great condition and in place, oil would just drain into plastic under-cover until it became full and then oil would slosh out. The cover is NOT going to prevent losing oil from crankcase..,.it may just catch some!
    I have same issue. Car has not used a single drop that I can see on dipstick from 70K miles to just two months ago when low engine oil dash light came on and oil was down 2 full quarts after 6500 miles since oil change. Please note I used to put many miles a year on this one-owner 2002 540 bought at 70K miles. I have done every bit of mtce myself and as an electrical engineer (now retired) I was cheap, but more importantly still love to learn and out-thinking Germans is a hoot for me. Have solved some truly odd issues, but I change oil every 10K miles with full synthetic and only Mann or Mehle filters at 10K oil change, the level is dead nuts at FUll always. Have repaired leaks (valley pan gasket), valve cover gaskets x 2, and many other leaks, but use oil?? never. Until discovered 2 quarts low, added 2 and 40 days and maybe 200 miles later I again lost 2 quarts. No evidence of leaks, ANY fumes under ANY conditions out of tail pipe, and not a single wet drop after driving car, parking it, and then moving it couple days later and really searching asphalt where I parked for any sign of even a drop and none found. remember valley pan gasket could be difficult to find unless actually looking for it. Oil flies off engine while driving and stops leaking when shut off. No engine runs, no smoke, just left oil wherever I drove like a baby with a full diaper. Once you look at passenger side rear under intake in corner, you can't miss it. Much I have not done yet. I'm 65 and put under 3000 miles a year on this car and just have (knock wood) had no reason to really inspect it well. Have not pulled plugs as I see no evidence of burning oil, plugs don't foul, gas mileage normal, no codes, yada yada. Will be doing CCV plate at manifold rear, but if someone can give me BMW part# for just diaphragm, I'd be thrilled and just change it. Real oem, Bentley totally ignore CCV as well as OSV removal or even any mention. Seeking DY for changing just OSV..anyone? Part number for CCV diaphragm only for 2002 540 m62 tu? If changing these helps none, plugs, valve covers off, plugs inspected, test vacuum at oil fill pipe (interesting that immediately after cold start ( a min. or less) remove oil filler cap and it is smoking above timing chains a lot. May be telling me CCV is not pulling oil fumes back into crankcase?? Yet to place finger over dipstick pipe for suction so have plenty more I can do to help myself, but 2 quarts in such few miles and I should be smoking like a diesel or leaving wading pools for kids to swim in on ground so I am trying to be smarter about my suspects. Don't see lower engine cover even being a good guess and at best POSSIBLY misleading. Thx all. No offense intended to anyone-ever. Bill

    P.S. note to self: many have same problems and many others take their personal time to offer any help they can. People look back about same problem possibly years after initial post only to find much time has passes with assumption being owner solved problem or mechanic did or they never figured out and junked car. Who is to know? Not necessarily the case here with this post, but suspect while problem is current, people are frantic for help and then much time passes and reasonable assumption is that OP got his answer or at least took to BMW for expensive fix and NO FOLLOW-UP is posted, others watching post as they have similar issue go home "with the Tribune" and for the help received, the OP offers no help or "here is what my problem was caused by" leaving all their fellow forum friends and knowledge sources as well as those similarly afflicted without anything. Can we imagine doctors who cured obscure or odd illnesses and curing those illnesses only to report it or share their findings with anyone??? Take the time to bring your issue full circle with whatever you learned before closing post, thus preserving the hope for others who learn from these posts. That's the greatest value a forum can share. Rant "off".
    Last edited by m5hoot; 05-08-2019 at 07:28 PM.
    Old, contrary, and out-of-touch,
    but still learning sumpin' every day
    NOTORIOUSLY long-winded :-(

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by m5hoot View Post
    Fail to understand how a missing lower engine cover could affect anything! Not sure what two tubes you are referring to (hopefully not AC condensation drain) but if cover were missing , by your theory oil would go to ground. If cover were in great condition and in place, oil would just drain into plastic under-cover until it became full and then oil would slosh out. The cover is NOT going to prevent losing oil from crankcase..,.it may just catch some!
    Bill -- sorry for your problems and frustrations. I understand.

    About the bottom plastic cover... Of course it doesn't do anything to prevent a leak. As you said, it can collect oil, and it can keep one from seeing where leaks are coming from, particularly when oil leaks out of a running engine and to the ground.

    (That's what I was referring to in my post, that leaks could be coming from the engine or one of the oil filter hoses, and then if the oil was dripping straight down to the ground with the cover off, one might not see the source of the leaks.)

    In my experience, these old engines can have many annoying little leaks. But a big oil leak is often from 1 or 2 sources that can be identified and fixed, sometimes easily, especially if the flow is as bad as yours sounds.

    First thing I'd do is remove the lower plastic cover and leave it off for a while. Then I'd put plenty of heavy cardboard and newspaper under the engine, preferably with the front up on ramps or stands. Then I'd spray everything that looks wet with oil with brake cleaner. It might take a 2 cans.

    After that wet oil (and some dirt) is gone and the brake cleaner has dried, it should be easier to see where the fresh flow of oil is coming from. Check under the car while idling, and after it sits. Of course, you'll want to find the highest source. When the engine is cool feel around all the edges of the cam covers. Wipe them with a paper towel and see if any oil returns. You get the idea. My bet is a leak that bad will leave a clear sign.

    Good luck!

    Richard

    P.S. With a known oil leak I suggest checking the level more often and keeping spare oil in the trunk, to keep it from getting 2 quarts low.
    Last edited by R Shaffner; 05-09-2019 at 07:34 AM.

  8. #8
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    P.S. note to self: many have same problems and many others take their personal time to offer any help they can. People look back about same problem possibly years after initial post only to find much time has passes with assumption being owner solved problem or mechanic did or they never figured out and junked car. Who is to know? Not necessarily the case here with this post, but suspect while problem is current, people are frantic for help and then much time passes and reasonable assumption is that OP got his answer or at least took to BMW for expensive fix and NO FOLLOW-UP is posted, others watching post as they have similar issue go home "with the Tribune" and for the help received, the OP offers no help or "here is what my problem was caused by" leaving all their fellow forum friends and knowledge sources as well as those similarly afflicted without anything. Can we imagine doctors who cured obscure or odd illnesses and curing those illnesses only to report it or share their findings with anyone??? Take the time to bring your issue full circle with whatever you learned before closing post, thus preserving the hope for others who learn from these posts. That's the greatest value a forum can share. Rant "off".

    I recently was diagnosed with stage 4 throat cancer, because of that had to sell the car due to medical bills stacking up. Daily radiation treatments have taken over let me say it sucks. When the whole mess of my car having problems due to the failed oil pump literally hit at the same time of the diagnose of cancer, after just finishing a lot of work to the car then it snowballed and I didn't have the energy or the time to deal with it. Hated to have to sell the car because I really liked it and never planned to sell it. Not being able to work on it not knowing what the problem was, was very frustrating to say the least. It was driving me nuts not knowing where the oil was going as it didn't leak, didn't smoke, and no oil anywhere on the motor. I was completely baffled, because of the new medical s#@^ having to deal with needing extra cash for medical bills had to sell the car not knowing what the problem really was. I miss the car...new owner plans are extensive what it will soon become the motor was not important to him so I got lucky there. To other potential buyers it was a major problem...reluctantly sold it after having it for sale for just over three months. NO FOLLOW UP...well I have more important things to deal with...
    Last edited by SCRSUVS; 05-10-2019 at 04:27 PM.

  9. #9
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    SCRSUVS,

    I am so sorry to hear of your battle. I don't know much about throat cancer, but stage 4 of anything is real tough. Sorry also about the car. Hoping for the best possible outcome for you.

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