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Thread: BMW 850i flywheel

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Torino
    Posts
    16
    My Cars
    E31 850i

    BMW 850i flywheel

    Hi everyone, I have a BMW 850i 1991 EU manual with 300hp M70 engine.
    I should replace the clutch and in the meantime I am also replacing the flywheel and the pressure plate; however unfortunately BMW no longer has OEM parts and even through online sites I cannot find compatible aftermarket parts.

    I ask you if you could help me and address me to foreign / American companies that can supply these pieces.

    Furthermore, if I wanted to downsize the flywheel-clutch kit with a 265mm dual-mass flywheel of 840ci and 265mm clutch, is it possible? are they compatible and mount on the M70 engine?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Shoreview MN
    Posts
    977
    My Cars
    Had a 1991 BMW 850

    Flywheel

    I would have the Flywheel inspected for cracks and resurfaced.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    resurface the flywheel. If it is beyond that, which it rarely ever is, new ones can be had for a little over $500... yes, they DO still make them.
    The clutch disk and the pressure plate are another kettle of fish though...
    Disk can be had still - Sachs pt# 4013872103423, but there isn't too many
    SPEC clutch kit has both a disk & a pressure plate for $830 - https://www.specclutches.com/687589/
    Throw out bearing (MUST replace) is another $250 +/- from BMW
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA, USA
    Posts
    374
    My Cars
    x5, 640i, 850Ci, 850CSi
    When I replaced the clutch in my CSi, I sourced the clutch and pressure plate from UUC Motorworks, and the flywheel and throwout bearing from BMW. I had a problem with the clutch engagement (all the way to the floor), but Rogue Engineering makes an adjustable slave cylinder rod that fixed that. UUC sells a composite Kevlar/organic clutch disc that I’m hopeful will last longer than a standard organic disc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike Barrett
    94 850CSi, Hellrot over silbergrau dunkel/silbergrau hell
    96 850Ci, Oxfordgrun over silbergrau hell

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    5
    My Cars
    1992 850i
    Quote Originally Posted by cartoonz View Post
    resurface the flywheel. If it is beyond that, which it rarely ever is, new ones can be had for a little over $500... yes, they DO still make them.
    The clutch disk and the pressure plate are another kettle of fish though...
    Disk can be had still - Sachs pt# 4013872103423, but there isn't too many
    SPEC clutch kit has both a disk & a pressure plate for $830 - https://www.specclutches.com/687589/
    Throw out bearing (MUST replace) is another $250 +/- from BMW

    Hi, Cartoonz, I can't find a Sachs clutch disk for the 850i anywhere. I've spent the entire day today looking. I've been looking for Sachs pt# 1862 442 031, which if I understand correctly is the Sachs number for BMW part # 21211223410. The part number you've listed above (4013872103423) I can't even find what that is. You say there aren't too many left. Where should I look for one? My pressure plate is okay and I am an old guy who is very nice to clutches and don't need a "Stage" 1 kit. I just need to find a disk!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    like I said, the Sachs disks are tough to find.
    But... old guy or not, you cannot beat this deal with a stick - http://www.andysautosport.com/search...s/?query=sb011
    I don't even need another clutch (right now) and when I saw that price tonight, I bought one anyway.
    Spec SB011 850CSi Stage 1 clutch kit. Supposed to come with a pressure plate and a throwout bearing too, but even for just the disk that's still a deal.
    and yes, that WILL fit the earlier 850i too.
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    Just in case nobody noticed it....
    Andy's Autosport is selling the Spec SB011 850CSi Stage 1 clutch kit for LESS than $400
    mine is being shipped tomorrow (I paid $385)
    Will update when it arrives.
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Grovetown, GA
    Posts
    777
    My Cars
    1991 850i 6-speed
    Quote Originally Posted by cartoonz View Post
    Just in case nobody noticed it....
    Andy's Autosport is selling the Spec SB011 850CSi Stage 1 clutch kit for LESS than $400
    mine is being shipped tomorrow (I paid $385)
    Will update when it arrives.
    My SB271 kit arrived with a pressure plate, disc, pilot bearing, and alignment tool.
    I was hoping for, but not expecting the throwout bearing.
    Price was $688 plus tax at the weekend. I notice Summit have bumped the price back to $800 now.
    Still seems like a good deal, although not as good as the screamer you got for $400 last year!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    yeah, I think a few people took advantage of Andy's goof... They've long since fixed that, sadly.

    that's what I got too, disk, pressure plate, & pilot tool.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Green Valley, AZ
    Posts
    225
    My Cars
    2009 M6, 2002 M3 conv.,
    Sorry to revive an old thread, but I need to replace my flywheel and of course they are NLA. I was going to purchase a spec 1 clutch and was hoping to source a new flywheel that will play nicely with that clutch. Resurfacing the flywheel and rebuilding the clutch is what I did (KY clutch) and the engagement point is high and after a 1200 miles it is only getting worse. Does anyone have any recommendations for a flywheel to go with a SPEC 1 clutch....want as close to stock feel as possible. Thanks for any ideas and leads.

    James
    2009 M6, 2005 M3 comp 6spd slicktop, 2002 M3 convertible, 2002 530i slicktop sport package, 2001 M5, 2001 750il, 1994 850 CSI 0015, 1993 M5 3.6, 1991 850i 6spd, 1988 750il, 1988 M5, 1985 535i, 1959 502....yes it is a sickness!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Redmond, WA
    Posts
    263
    My Cars
    e39 m5, e31
    I couldn’t get a spec clutch no matter who said they had it in stock. Have you check with KY clutch on the potential issue? Wondering if they can resolve it? Not alot of options unfortunately. They rebuilt my clutch and pressure plate and so far so good but only 100 miles so far. I will say the engagement point does feel a hair high but nothing to compare it to. A couple of thousands off the flywheel doesn’t seem like it should be noticeable in the pedal? I wonder if a spacer or something could help?
    Last edited by brettd85; 06-01-2022 at 01:57 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Grovetown, GA
    Posts
    777
    My Cars
    1991 850i 6-speed
    https://specclutch.com/product/sb27s/

    One option - can’t recall reading any driving experiences with this installed however


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Green Valley, AZ
    Posts
    225
    My Cars
    2009 M6, 2002 M3 conv.,
    Brettd85- thanks for that information. My KY clutch rebuild has about 1500 miles on it and the engagement point was high from day one. Unfortunately, as I have been trouble shooting several issues with the car, I left that one alone since I could at least drive the car. I am going to get a new slave and bleed the clutch with the slave cylinder out. If I recall my mechanic and I did the old school pump pedal and bleed with the slave in which may be one possible reason and worth trying before ripping the car apart.
    I questioned KY clutch about rebuilding the clutch at first and they seem to act quite familiar with an 850 clutch, but my suspicion is that the rebuild might not be correct….and I will contact them if that is the case.
    i contacted UUC about their 2,800.00 clutch but they never returned my call.

    petejk; LMP performance has the Spec clutch unfortunately they don’t have a flywheel to go along with it, hence my dilemma. UUC advertises a package of flywheel and clutch, throw out bearing….though expensive, if it is a quality product then it might be worth it.

    Would someone happen to know or know where to find the specific specifications for the clutch/flywheel of tolerances for a manual 8 series?
    2009 M6, 2005 M3 comp 6spd slicktop, 2002 M3 convertible, 2002 530i slicktop sport package, 2001 M5, 2001 750il, 1994 850 CSI 0015, 1993 M5 3.6, 1991 850i 6spd, 1988 750il, 1988 M5, 1985 535i, 1959 502....yes it is a sickness!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Green Valley, AZ
    Posts
    225
    My Cars
    2009 M6, 2002 M3 conv.,
    Hi guys, I spoke with Chris at KY clutch, heck of a nice guy. I am going to pull the clutch and flywheel this weekend and take some pictures for Chris. We are going to problem solve and see if there is indeed something not quite right with the clutch rebuild and/or installation. I will keep you posted.
    2009 M6, 2005 M3 comp 6spd slicktop, 2002 M3 convertible, 2002 530i slicktop sport package, 2001 M5, 2001 750il, 1994 850 CSI 0015, 1993 M5 3.6, 1991 850i 6spd, 1988 750il, 1988 M5, 1985 535i, 1959 502....yes it is a sickness!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    Sounds a lot like whomever resurfaced your flywheel did not take the same material thickness from the surface the pressure plate mounts to.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Green Valley, AZ
    Posts
    225
    My Cars
    2009 M6, 2002 M3 conv.,
    Hi Cartoonz,
    That is a possibility, since I had the flywheel resurfaced locally before I knew about KY clutch. However, I sent my resurfaced flywheel to KY clutch so they could make sure everything was correct for the rebuild. Chris from KY was questioning me a lot about the problem I was having (which I appreciated). Hopefully, I can find resolution with this issue and I will post it here, the clutch is coming out tomorrow, but Chris wants some pictures first I think to check for that very issue. My mechanic will be with me tomorrow for the tear down. I will try to post some pictures here too, just for documentation purposes. Thank you for your input!

    James
    2009 M6, 2005 M3 comp 6spd slicktop, 2002 M3 convertible, 2002 530i slicktop sport package, 2001 M5, 2001 750il, 1994 850 CSI 0015, 1993 M5 3.6, 1991 850i 6spd, 1988 750il, 1988 M5, 1985 535i, 1959 502....yes it is a sickness!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    3,462
    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    Do NOT try to bleed the clutch with the slave out... trust me on this.
    use a top mounted pressure bleeder and do not fiddle with the pedal.
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Green Valley, AZ
    Posts
    225
    My Cars
    2009 M6, 2002 M3 conv.,
    Hi Cartoonz,
    Thanks for the "heads up" and yes I did it and regret that I did it. Full disclosure, I didn't not get the slave back in correctly and it blew apart inside the tranny....ugh! I used a borescope and a magnet to get the pieces out, unfortunately, I couldn't get the rubber piece out. Fortunately/Unfortunately I had to remove the transmission anyway, because the engagement point on the clutch was way too high and would slip when hot (hour or so of driving). I think the pictures reveal that there was not even pressure on the being applied and poor contact of the flywheel to the disk, but I am no expert.

    Update:
    I overnighted the clutch to KY clutch yesterday (that was not cheap!) and they are working on it as we speak. One of the guys said over the phone, "oh you are guy with that strange clutch"....lol. They are going to have the clutch back to me by Friday, and then the install will happen this weekend. I am planning a long road trip late next week (AZ to SC to MD and back to AZ in about 9 days). FYI finding a new clutch release bearing has been very difficulty, none are available in the US and Germany....WTF. However, I ordered an aftermarket one from auto zone and a fellow board member may have an original unused one that I can retrieve if necessary, thank you B! Here are some of the pictures of my clutch after about 1200-1500 miles and you can see the uneven wear.

    I post this information to help with understanding what is happening or not happening. As fellow 8 owners with manual transmissions, the more information we have the better we can understand what is needed to keep these cars going. I am grateful that KY clutch can rebuild this again, and I hope it will work like OEM this time.
    James
    Attached Images Attached Images
    2009 M6, 2005 M3 comp 6spd slicktop, 2002 M3 convertible, 2002 530i slicktop sport package, 2001 M5, 2001 750il, 1994 850 CSI 0015, 1993 M5 3.6, 1991 850i 6spd, 1988 750il, 1988 M5, 1985 535i, 1959 502....yes it is a sickness!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Redmond, WA
    Posts
    263
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    e39 m5, e31
    Boy that’s strange. Now you’ve got me a bit worried about my high engagement. So far no slipping but I haven’t exactly pushed it hard.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
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    My Cars
    91 Dinan860 & 91 850 6sp
    Ask the guys at KYC what the exact measurement is for the "step" on the flywheel and measure that on yours.
    It is unlikely they reinvented anything on the pressure plate, so I suspect the machine shop skipped a step (pun intended).
    '91 Dinan 860 Stage III (new 6L engine)
    '91 Dinan 850 TT stage III (brand new engine) 21st Century Tech meets 18th Century Dinan...
    '91 850i 6sp (mint) (sold)
    '90 Dinan 750iL TT stage III (Guido - The Beast)
    '94 850 CSi The Detroit Auto Show car (restored to factory perfect) (sold)
    '96 850Ci, The George Carlin car
    ''73 3.0 csi, '08 535i, '03 X5 4.6is
    ...and a few other non BMW cars

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Green Valley, AZ
    Posts
    225
    My Cars
    2009 M6, 2002 M3 conv.,
    Update:
    I think I know what happened to my clutch. I purchased this car about 5 years ago and placed about 700 miles on the car during that time before doing some “big jobs” intake seals, upper oil pan…etc. The maintenance records showed 2 clutch replacements fairly close together by the prior owner over the car’s 96k miles history, with the most recent had less than 10K. When I did the upper oil pan, my mechanic and I thought the flywheel looked like it needed to be resurfaced, burned a fair amount. Therefore, I took the flywheel to a local machine shop (before I knew about KY clutch) had the flywheel resurfaced. Then I sent the flywheel with the clutch to be rebuilt by KY clutch (since I found out about them) and they were to make sure things were correct. Long story short, my engagement point on my clutch was way high and it was not right. I sent the clutch and flywheel back to KY and they rebuilt the clutch again. Reinstalled the clutch last night and the clutch engagement point is better. The difference: my flywheel now has a step which it did not before. The flywheel did not have a step when I removed it before I had the local shop resurface it, so they resurfaced it the way it was presented to them, KY missed it when rebuilding the clutch. I sent the clutch and flywheel to KY again, they rebuilt it again, now the flywheel has a step and the clutch engagement point is better. KY clutch stood behind their work, most grateful to them!
    James
    2009 M6, 2005 M3 comp 6spd slicktop, 2002 M3 convertible, 2002 530i slicktop sport package, 2001 M5, 2001 750il, 1994 850 CSI 0015, 1993 M5 3.6, 1991 850i 6spd, 1988 750il, 1988 M5, 1985 535i, 1959 502....yes it is a sickness!

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Redmond, WA
    Posts
    263
    My Cars
    e39 m5, e31
    Drove my 8 today and now you have me concerned why my clutch pedal is as high as it is. Engagement is basically at the top of the pedal. I havent beat on it but so far no slipping, but I'm concerned its coming.. I did have a local shop turn the flywheel and if I recall correctly they didnt machine as generous of a step in it as when I took it out. But can someone explain to me why that would raise the engagement point? Seems to me that would preload the clutch pressure plate more, if anything requiring more travel to disengage the clutch. Thoughts?

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