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Thread: Rust repairs to rear subframe mounts and rockers

  1. #1
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    Rust repairs to rear subframe mounts and rockers

    In your opinion, is this a 'walk away, part it out' or 'spend the money, make it work' situation?

    New to me 83 320i, drove it from Kansas to Vermont, want to use it as a fun car and learning tool for teenage kid(s)--driving and wrenching. Plan to tsd rally, rallycross, drive some in summer. As it now sits, it is very driveable, needs some engine work, but will not pass VT inspection with unibody issues. Kansas is a road salt state.

    I am getting some estimates, but my local mechanic say 'walk away. its a part car.'

    Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

    Bill

  2. #2
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    1979 E21 320i
    Can you MIG weld? Because that’s really the biggest question here. I would take donor parts from another e21, but if it’s that extensive your mechanic is probably right. Have any photos?
    -John

  3. #3
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    Scrap it. Healy Rick said he bought a rust free California car and had it shipped cross country. That is not cheap though. It had mechanical issues, high mileage, but body excellent. This is what he bought.


  4. #4
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    Part it out as much as possible to recoup funds, and find a better example. Even if you can fix it yourself, it will take a ton of time, and probably cost more than just buying a good one to start with.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  5. #5
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    Rust repair is really expensive if you can't do it yourself and time consuming if you can. If the rear suspension and rockers are as bad as you say, it's a good bet there's rust around the front floor and frame rails as well. I agree with parting it out and cutting your losses.

  6. #6
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    Your advice is well taken. I have a second opinion tomorrow with a body shop that is old bmw friendly; if they confirm the bad news I'll part it out and look for a better example. If they can give me an estimate that I can live with, I'll have them fix it.

    I know this is not a zero sum game. No sale will ever recoup fully what is put into an old car. But I don't want to be entirely stupid about it.

    I'll report what tomorrow brings, and thank you.

  7. #7
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    There are not many e21's for sale in the North East states, I just looked on CL. The number listed for sale in California is also declining.

  8. #8
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    I'm staring this issue down myself. I have to be careful because I can sense this spiraling out of control easily. I'm looking at strut tower, some frame rail, and significant floor pans rust. If it's going to a body shop I wouldnt. I'd buy a southern car and ship it up.

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    For the most part, E21s from the northeast are rust buckets. Unless you find a rare one that hasn't been driven in winter, there will be rust issues, oftentimes lurking under shiny paint. It was cheaper in the long run to find a rust-free car with good paint on the west coast and ship it east than doing rust repair and paint on a car near us. Most people new to restoring cars have no idea how much body and paint work cost. There are ways to cut costs by doing some things yourself, but just start pricing the materials for a good quality paint job and you'll be close to $3k.

  10. #10
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    Well, body shop says $2800 and up. Maybe close to $4000. I'm out.

    Thank you, everyone.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vermont320i View Post
    Well, body shop says $2800 and up. Maybe close to $4000. I'm out.

    Thank you, everyone.
    Sorry for the bad news.

  12. #12
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    If it has a 5spd and a lsd it is worth good money in parts in the 2002 community.
    Here in Atlanta there are a handful of decent e21s for sale right now on Craigslist between 1700-2500 which I'm willing to bet have little to no rust.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Overpriced for a car that does not run. But the body is probably good.

    BMW 320i E21 - $1700
    This E21 is the perfect project car. The body is perfect, engine is good, and interior needs some work but other than that everything else is there. The car hasn't started in awhile due to ignition needing to be replaced. I was going to work on it but I just don't have the time. Please contact me if there are any questions my name is Joe (404) 218-1734

    https://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/c...811806432.html

  14. #14
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    Before everyone agrees that parting out perfectly running car and getting a replacement is the easiest way to go, I would like to point out that these cars notorious to be rusty, even in salt free states. May not be as bad as the OP's car but finding a southern or western e21 without rust in the trunk, around taillights, front floor sections and around window frames could be challenging and it would definitely be reflected in selling price. Northeastern cars have problems with rockers, trunk shock towers and floors. Let's not forget that they do not make them anymore.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Max

  15. #15
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    Even good looking cars can or will have rust, so whatever you end up buying make sure you or someone experienced enough to inspect before purchase.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  16. #16
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    Can you take pictures and post them?

    - - - Updated - - -

    every California E21 I have had - has had some rust in the area you are talking about Vermont320i.

    The structural mounting point of the rear subframe is put inside the car under the rear seat. this a cage brace / mount I welded over it in the track car. The lower plate that bolts to the pinch weld is about 30% of its strength.

    79rearbox 8.jpg
    Last edited by OLD MAN; 03-15-2019 at 10:04 AM.

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  17. #17
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    If you aren't a welder or diyer I get his approach.. Sinking 4k in to a car eats up pretty much 100% of it's resale value so it's just not a smart decision money wise. Also I would only swap cars of it has pieces worth the effort

    Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

  18. #18
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    I've been thinking about this a lot over the last few days----good thing I work for myself.....

    I am going to have a cage put it, work on the rust issues, cross my fingers and get it fixed.

    why? I like this damned car. It drives really well, looks cool as hell, and you don't see them any more---it also has pretty good parts availability.

    My local body shop guys give me a good vibe; they are into the project and seem to understand that money does not grow on trees.

    Yes, I know that even if I put 3k or 4k into it, it will never be worth more than 4k or so. Same could be said for a dodge caravan, and who wants to drive that in a rallycross?

    Here is the new plan: get it safe and inspectable with the cage and some rust repair/reinforcement. drive it in some rallycross/road rally/hill climb scca events this year. peck away at bodywork and engine needs over the warmer months here in VT. set up my garage better over that time to be able to work on it more myself. learn something more about bodywork/engine work. HAVE FUN WITH ALL OF THAT WITH MY TEENAGE KIDS . I have 4. If one or more of them want to be involved, I will count that as a major victory.

    In part because of my purchase of this 'cool old car' (her words), tomorrow I am running a stage rally with one of my daughters. Since she is 16, I am a bit surprised she wants to do this with me. Since I don't trust the 320i to not lose its rear cradle in a muddy washboard (due to the current condition of the suspension mounts), we will run this event in our Jeep Rubicon 4 door. That will give her some basis of comparison, in the future, for the BMW.

    Wish me luck please, and I will keep you posted.

  19. #19
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    Most of us do not buy these cars to make profit or break even... It is a hobby and hobbies cost money and time. I have owned my 320i for almost 15 years and have 2 folders of receipts that would add up to much more than it's "worth". And it still needs some minor body work and paint and has somewhat tired engine and transmission. I enjoy it a lot and for me it's worth the money and time I spent on it. Who cares about today's market value if I am not selling it. In the future they will appreciate because they are getting older and rare. While these cars are somewhat common in the western U.S., the feedback I am getting driving it in Vermont and Quebec during summer is something... Have to plan 30 minutes for each gas stop to have conversations

    I am really glad to hear that Bill decided to keep the car and get it fixed. Good luck and if I can help, let me know.

    Max

  20. #20
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    Money into cars? Started in 1968 at the age of 15 and have not slowed down yet.

    Someone say cage! This was only the first go-round

    79cage204.jpg 79cagerear78.jpg 79cagerear172.jpg 79trunk6.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Good luck with the build - these E21s are fun to drive, and if you keep it long enough you get your money back in fun.

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mxl556 View Post
    ..... I would like to point out that these cars (E21's are) notorious to be rusty, even in salt free states. May not be as bad as the OP's car but finding a southern or western e21 without rust in the trunk, around taillights, front floor sections and around window frames could be challenging
    i would like to challenge this mindset. having lived in the 'salt free, southern and western states' sense the introduction of the E21's, my experience is that most of the cars from these areas are indeed rust free and not the exception.
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
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  22. #22
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    Tom I most be buying the wrong ones, never had one without rust at bottom corners of windshields, bottom of rear windows, bottoms of front fenders at pinchwelds, trunk seals, bottom of tail lights and some in trunk floors.

    If you live near the beach in so cal then the air is salty, so not washing the cars in hidden areas can cause the start of rust.

    Almost all cars in Hawaii turn into rust buckets and they do not salt their roads.

    Also cars made in the late 70's and on were not meant to last 40 years or so. Manufactures want us to buy or lease a new car every 5 years or so.

    Just my opinion.

    My 65 Malibu wagon still has a solid frame but there are points of rust around the body corners and seams.

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  23. #23
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    A true story about rust repair - My first car in 1967 was a 1959 Austin-Healey Bugeye Sprite. Sold it when I got out of high school. When I married ten years later my wife saw one for sale that I ended up buying because I thought it was "rare" It was really rusty and needed floors, fenders etc. I spent $5k on body repairs and paint in 1980s money on the car and once that was done I needed to put another $5k in to finish it. At that time I was offered an original Austin-Healey 100M for $5k and I had to decide whether to buy that car or finish the bugeye. I decided to finish the bugeye and years later I have a car worth about $15k, which is probably what I have into it. Meanwhile, the 100M would be worth about $175k, an opportunity I missed because I was inexperienced enough over restoring cars. Bugeyes were not rare, they made about 50,000 of them. Neither are E21s. I could have saved a lot of time, effort and money if I had just shopped around for a better car to start out with. (Although sometimes we start out with a project car so we can pay for them on the installment plan, fixing a little bit at a time). Just a cautionary tale for those shopping for an e21. A hard lesson learned and when my son's modified e21 finally suffered terminal rust, we decided it made more sense to find a rust free car to transfer all the good parts into. Having said that, I'm still glad I restored the bugeye that I have 40 years later and have learned a lot over the years. Good luck with getting this E21 back on the road.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
    i would like to challenge this mindset. having lived in the 'salt free, southern and western states' sense the introduction of the E21's, my experience is that most of the cars from these areas are indeed rust free and not the exception.
    Tom, I lived in S. California for about 20 years and during that time owned 4 e21's. 1980, two 1981's and 1983. When I bought/owned these cars were 20-25 years old. Most came from S.F. valley and as far as I know did not spent all their life near the ocean. None were perfect and all were cheap. All of them had some rust. All of these cars had some rust in the trunk, trunk seal channels were always bad, window frames had issues. Most had some rust around taillights and by the rear bumper trim.
    None had structural issues because of rust, but all of them had some rust. CA, WA, OR and southern cars will have some rust. Rust free cars come from dry states like AZ, TX, NM, NV and east coast as long as they are not driven in winter.

    Max

  25. #25
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    If you buy a California car, and the owner lived in an apartment, it depends if it was parked under a carport most of the time. If it was 100% left out in the open and got rained on a lot I believe they would have rust.

    I still have that one Tom was going to buy and passed on. Seems to be rust free on the upper part. Think it spent at least some time parked under a redwood tree. Because it was parked over wet earth, you do see rust, at least surface rust, on parts like the rear subframe. No rust around the trunk channel though. And around the windshield and rear window look very good too.

    My '81 has rusty trunk channel. Not bad all the way around, but one particular section it rust all the way through. And a door, lower front, rust hole. Rusted from the inside out. I think it spent time in oakland and was probably left out in the weather.

    many people in the Bay Area have no covered parking, and just leave the car on the street in the weather. Apartments are expensive, and they often do not come with covered parking in this urban metropolis.
    Last edited by okieflats; 03-18-2019 at 01:30 AM.

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