new clutch and shifter rebuild list.

[zactastic]

Would like your opinions on this list of the parts im looking to purchase for the new clutch DIY. car has 173k, original clutch/shifter. previous owner said shifter bushings and selector rod replaced at 160k... (not sure if i can really tell)

Clutch currently does not slip, though mechanic told me the rear seal seems to be leaking and with the high mileage i feel its time to get this done. clutch engagement is good though low on the pedal. shifter seems sloppy from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. on down shifting from 3rd to 2nd ive noticed several times that the clutch didnt engage or was sticky from the rear seal leaking and it can not go into gear, ive heard it grind a few times. ... my jetta down shifts better, haha.

parts list...

Clutch:
Clutch kit: stage 1 DKM single mass
throw out bearing
throw out bearing guide
Clutch install kit
Detent shift pin refresh kit

Transmission gasket set and tranny plug
rear main seal (im in strong belief that mine is leaking, want to be prepared)
transmission oil - 1 liter 75w-90
Transmission shift pin repair kit

shifting refresh:
shifter rebuild and upgrade kit

optional parts im considering:

1.clutch slave - for the 325 model - ive read it will create a better balance/feel for a lighter flywheel, meaning it will give slightly more resistance on the clutch pedal? should i do that or stick with the M3 slave?

2. clutch pivot pin - ive been recommended to go with the steel rouge vs OEM plastic.

3. stainless steel clutch line... perhaps if i stick with the M3 clutch slave + ss line this would improve the clutch pedal enough so not needing the 325 slave?

4. new shifter lever - ive heard the pivot ball and bushing can have considerable wear. seeing as i have 173k miles, perhaps to get the best new feel of the shifter i should do this since i dont want or plan on dropping the tranny in the near future.

please let me know your thoughts on this parts list, thanks

[zactastic]

Trying to order this weekend. Please let me know your opinions

[TostitoBandito]

If you're gonna be doing that, it would be a good time to install a SSK like the UUC Evo3. That will also take care of the shifter refresh, since everything but the carrier is replaced (if you get the DSSR). It's a good upgrade on these cars.

[ScotcH]

If you're gonna be doing that, it would be a good time to install a SSK like the UUC Evo3. That will also take care of the shifter refresh, since everything but the carrier is replaced (if you get the DSSR). It's a good upgrade on these cars.

And if you get the Rogue kit, even the carrier is replaced.

- I have no idea what a transmission gasket set is … and the tranny plugs don't really need to be replaced, they're not aluminum like the 6 speed (unless I'm forgetting …).
- Transmission oil: Get Redline D4 or MTL … not generic 75w90. The transmission uses ATF.
- Definitely do the rear main and get the horseshoe gasket as well (it's like $5).
- Pilot bearing
- Id stick with your M3 slave unless you're having issues. You can change it later if you want without too much work. Same for the shifter stuff, no need to drop tranny for that work.

[Braymond141]

Low clutch pedal is a bad thing, not proper at all. The clutch should be nearing full disengagement towards the middle of the pedal travel.

OEM stainless pivot pin. No reason to buy anything else. They are proven to last. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...SABEgJA2PD_BwE

Add an OE pilot bearing to your list. Do not use the provided kit bearing.

Guide tube, pivot pin and the clutch fork are critical for proper clutch actuation travel. Add the fork to your list.

Use BMW Unirex S2 Lubricating Grease on the guide tube, and pivot points of fork and throwout bearing. This is a BMW sold product. Do not use any other grease. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/83239416138/

In my opinion, going single mass is a bad move. I’ve driven 160k miles with three different single mass clutch kits. UUC with E34 M5 disc (JUNK), Gripforce 16lb with multipuck disc (Better than UUC but harsh) and then the same gripforce but for E46 M3 6-speed trans (terrible). OEM is better.

Stick with the OEM slave if the flywheel is ~16lb. You only need the 325 slave with 8lb flywheels. Your clutch pedal will be marginally lighter with the 16lb, the feel will be fantastic. Similar to E46 M3 (which is very good).

[zactastic]

If you're gonna be doing that, it would be a good time to install a SSK like the UUC Evo3. That will also take care of the shifter refresh, since everything but the carrier is replaced (if you get the DSSR). It's a good upgrade on these cars.

I didnt think about going that route so thanks for bringing up the fact that a SSK would cover that plus give me a better feel.

And if you get the Rogue kit, even the carrier is replaced.

- I have no idea what a transmission gasket set is … and the tranny plugs don't really need to be replaced, they're not aluminum like the 6 speed (unless I'm forgetting …).
- Transmission oil: Get Redline D4 or MTL … not generic 75w90. The transmission uses ATF.
- Definitely do the rear main and get the horseshoe gasket as well (it's like $5).
- Pilot bearing
- Id stick with your M3 slave unless you're having issues. You can change it later if you want without too much work. Same for the shifter stuff, no need to drop tranny for that work.

-Tranny gaskets here
... incase my transmission was leaking but on second thought i dont think it is, as the oil appears to be coming from the rear seal. its was a preventative inase i get in there but i can wait on that.
-75-90 genuine BMW oil is was i was going to get... ill look at your suggestion
-horseshoe gasket. CHECK
-good to know i can stick with the slave for now.

Thanks so much!!

[zactastic]

Low clutch pedal is a bad thing, not proper at all. The clutch should be nearing full disengagement towards the middle of the pedal travel.

OEM stainless pivot pin. No reason to buy anything else. They are proven to last. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...SABEgJA2PD_BwE

Add an OE pilot bearing to your list. Do not use the provided kit bearing.

Guide tube, pivot pin and the clutch fork are critical for proper clutch actuation travel. Add the fork to your list.

Use BMW Unirex S2 Lubricating Grease on the guide tube, and pivot points of fork and throwout bearing. This is a BMW sold product. Do not use any other grease. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/83239416138/

In my opinion, going single mass is a bad move. I’ve driven 160k miles with three different single mass clutch kits. UUC with E34 M5 disc (JUNK), Gripforce 16lb with multipuck disc (Better than UUC but harsh) and then the same gripforce but for E46 M3 6-speed trans (terrible). OEM is better.

Stick with the OEM slave if the flywheel is ~16lb. You only need the 325 slave with 8lb flywheels. Your clutch pedal will be marginally lighter with the 16lb, the feel will be fantastic. Similar to E46 M3 (which is very good).

- ive heard nothing but good things about the DKM clutch kit and single mass FW. for the price it seems worth it. $1500 for OEM parts vs $550... guess ill get what i paid for? tough call.

- I like the steel pivot pin, and grease tips. Ill also add the clutch fork and OE pilot bearing. thanks!!!

[Braymond141]

OEM are just over $600.

https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/19...lutch_kit.html
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/19.../flywheel.html

[zactastic]

OEM are just over $600.

https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/19...lutch_kit.html
https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/19.../flywheel.html

dude, you're the man!! see, this is why i dont hesitate to ask questions on here for better ideas. i mean ill hesitate to ask my wife questions, but not you guys

[NoLastName]

I've tried a few flywheel setups over the years... I fully agree with Braymond141 that the LUK dual mass is absolutely the best for street use (and that the UUC w/e34 M5 disc is junk). You can't beat the smoothness and driveability of OEM for this application. My favorite was the LUK flywheel with a Sachs clutch. $422 is a great price for the flywheel.

[crashgordan]

good thread...

[Hova]

Low clutch pedal is a bad thing, not proper at all. The clutch should be nearing full disengagement towards the middle of the pedal travel.

OEM stainless pivot pin. No reason to buy anything else. They are proven to last. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...SABEgJA2PD_BwE

Add an OE pilot bearing to your list. Do not use the provided kit bearing.

Guide tube, pivot pin and the clutch fork are critical for proper clutch actuation travel. Add the fork to your list.

Use BMW Unirex S2 Lubricating Grease on the guide tube, and pivot points of fork and throwout bearing. This is a BMW sold product. Do not use any other grease. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/83239416138/

In my opinion, going single mass is a bad move. I’ve driven 160k miles with three different single mass clutch kits. UUC with E34 M5 disc (JUNK), Gripforce 16lb with multipuck disc (Better than UUC but harsh) and then the same gripforce but for E46 M3 6-speed trans (terrible). OEM is better.

Stick with the OEM slave if the flywheel is ~16lb. You only need the 325 slave with 8lb flywheels. Your clutch pedal will be marginally lighter with the 16lb, the feel will be fantastic. Similar to E46 M3 (which is very good).

All of this is correct. I've had a few different lightweight flywheels on different cars, and I've always hated them. At first I thought the car was quicker, and responded better, but in day to day driving it just sucks. Not one of them have the feel or the smoothness of the OE clutch.

You can get away with reusing the original flywheel once if it hasn't glazed over and the flywheel dampeners feel okay, but you really should replace the flywheel when you do the clutch. It's a once in every 8-10 year job, it should be done the right way the first time.

I've gotten to the point where I can do a clutch on these cars in 6-8 hours from start to finish on jack stands, and I would hate to have to do it again because of some cheap throw-out bearing, pilot bearing, or failed fork pin. Please use the OE parts and as Brett said, the steel pin (greased).

I should also mention you posted 1 qt of transmission oil, the ZF tranny takes about 1.8 quarts. So you need another bottle. 75w-90 is also the wrong oil for these transmissions, it should be an ATF fluid. I've tried quite a few of them. Mobil-1 seemed okay, RP Syncromax felt like crap, too thin. RedLine D4 "felt" the best.

The shift pins require special tools to install. There are a number of places where you can buy from. You can always resell them after.

https://www.thayermotorsports.com/pr...vice-tools-new

https://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplas...hift_pins.html

http://brazeauracing.com/tech/transmissions.htm

Nobody has mentioned it, but at that mileage, you should change out your guibo as well. It has to be removed for this job, you really should replace it. I bet it's seen better days.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-26112226527my

Best of luck!

[zactastic]

thanks man, Yes im doing the drivetrain bearing, guibo, etc. also rouge SSK. Here are some photos.

The rear main is leaking, that is my assumption to the bell housing oiliness. should i do the input bearing or at least inspect it? the pin from the clutch slave also popped out when i removed it so perhaps that is leaking into the bell housing?

IMG-1892 by zactastic,

IMG-1893 by zactastic,

IMG-1895 by zactastic, on Flickr

IMG-1896 by zactastic, on Flickr

IMG-1894 by zactastic, on Flickr

i slid the pin back in the slave slowly, but it did pop out when i removed the tranny. should i be worried?
IMG-1898 by zactastic, on Flickr

minimal wear on the pilot pin, lol. ( i bought the steel one from Rouge)
IMG-1897 by zactastic, on Flickr

[zactastic]

I bought 2 liters of https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/83222339221/

no go?

also, do you guys prefer thumbnail or larger size photos where you dont have to click?

[TostitoBandito]

I bought 2 liters of https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...r/83222339221/

no go?

also, do you guys prefer thumbnail or larger size photos where you dont have to click?

Realoem specifies MTF-LT-2 (this stuff https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/oil-for-manual-transmission/83222339219/ ) for the E36 M3 manual transmission as far as OEM "lifetime" fluids go. Not sure on the difference between that and LT-3 and whether it would be ok. That said, these are both stupid expensive and most people just use Red Line D4 ATF or MTL or something along those lines. Bentley just says "use ATF" for the trans fluid. I imagine any quality ATF fluid will be fine. No need to buy the BMW stuff unless you want to.

[JitteryJoe]

Either the engine main seal or the transmission input seal is leaking (or both). At 173K I'd probably just do both.
Redline MTL is a very commonly used transmission oil. Good stuff.
I'd replace as many wearable parts as you have exposed. You don't pull the transmission that often. Seals, pilot bearing, throw out bearing, clutch fork, slave, selector seal, etc.
The transmission detents can be a real pain, at least the ones where you have to pull the bushing out. Plenty of threads on this if you search. There are some special tools required for installation (although some may say you can get by without).
When working with the transmission seals and detents, just remember that it is aluminum so easily gouged.

[zactastic]

Realoem specifies MTF-LT-2 (this stuff https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/oil-for-manual-transmission/83222339219/ ) for the E36 M3 manual transmission as far as OEM "lifetime" fluids go......

dang, i bought the wrong shit. lol, glad i asked you guys

- - - Updated - - -

Either the engine main seal or the transmission input seal is leaking (or both). At 173K I'd probably just do both.
Redline MTL is a very commonly used transmission oil. Good stuff.
I'd replace as many wearable parts as you have exposed. You don't pull the transmission that often. Seals, pilot bearing, throw out bearing, clutch fork, slave, selector seal, etc.
The transmission detents can be a real pain, at least the ones where you have to pull the bushing out. Plenty of threads on this if you search. There are some special tools required for installation (although some may say you can get by without).
When working with the transmission seals and detents, just remember that it is aluminum so easily gouged.

Thanks for the input. ill get the transmission seal a go. googling " e36 detent diy" brings up really great DIY's that im using. i have the detent tools, and yes, those bushings are fragi-lay!!!!

[ScotcH]

Don't worry about the pin on the slave. It's just held in by that rubber boot, so pops out easily. Just don't press the pedal with it out lol … then the guts will be at the other end of the garage, and you'll need a new one

[JitteryJoe]

Also, a slide hammer is your friend for pulling the transmission input seal.

[zactastic]

Don't worry about the pin on the slave. It's just held in by that rubber boot, so pops out easily. Just don't press the pedal with it out lol … then the guts will be at the other end of the garage, and you'll need a new one

thanks, yah ill just stick the pin in delicately and hopefully the slave doesnt have an issue. if it does, ill replace it.

[zactastic]

Also, a slide hammer is your friend for pulling the transmission input seal.

Guess ill need to get one...though i didnt need it for the detents (see below)

bue arrow shows a top bushing cap with screw. I was able to get all the covers like this. 1st and reverse i had to use pliers as seen below.
Untitled by zactastic,

Untitled by zactastic,

Untitled by zactastic

More by zactastic

go slow with the detent cap/cover removal, some springs may fly out fast.

[JitteryJoe]

Guess ill need to get one...though i didnt need it for the detents (see below)

bue arrow shows a top bushing cap with screw. I was able to get all the covers like this. 1st and reverse i had to use pliers as seen below.

go slow with the detent cap/cover removal, some springs may fly out fast.

There is always another way. Slide hammer is quick & clean. A useful tool to have around. Good luck with the project!

[zactastic]

crap, as i was hammering out the bushing of the 5th gear housing on the transmission, the small flat head tip fell inside the transmission housing. how worried should i be? its a few millimeters wide and 1/2 inch long. (see photo, screw driver on the left broke)

It was during Step 5 of the detents DIY here: https://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplas...hift_pins.html

Untitled by zactastic,
im 90% sure it went down inside. 10% chance it could have sprung out into the garage somewhere.

I rolled the transmission over, it leaked some oil and i rolled it back, didnt see it come out.

Next step was for me to drain the transmission anyways so should i open up both nuts and drain it, possibly flush it out with extra oil to see if that helps?

would this metal shard do anything at all, perhaps just sit at the bottom somewhere is what im hoping for. If im correct, there is an internal wall dividing the selector pins from the gears. what would you do? FML!!! arg

[TostitoBandito]

Yeah you really should find it if it's in there. If you drain it and can't find it in the oil, then you're gonna have to open it up. You could try draining it and then putting the same oil back in and draining again, repeating as much as necessary. I definitely wouldn't put that transmission on a car until you sort that out.

[zactastic]

Yeah you really should find it if it's in there. If you drain it and can't find it in the oil, then you're gonna have to open it up. You could try draining it and then putting the same oil back in and draining again, repeating as much as necessary. I definitely wouldn't put that transmission on a car until you sort that out.

was hoping to hear otherwise but yes, ill try to get it out of there. again, probably a slim chance its on the floor of the garage but ill look around and hope i find it first.