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Hey guys so I have a 1995 325i e36 seller said it needed a new starter so i took his word for it . Get the new starter in go to turn key and nothing. No crank . No noise . I change the battery and still nothing. There is a ticking noise coming from the fuse box when I try to turn it over. I tried push starting it and boom starts up . So starts when push started but no crank when ignition turned . Please somone help me if you can give me the info to fix this I’ll paypal you $50 bucks !!!
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Possibly a cracked fusible link. With the engine off, can you turn on the ignition and the head lights and maybe high beams?
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Yea I can use the head lights and all lights work
Member
You might have a bad relay, but since the car runs it's probably not the DME relay.
Are you any good with electronics testing? I would bench test all the relay's. Take them out one at a time, find the two pins for the coil, energize the coil with 12v (any small cheap wall wart will do, no need to use the car battery, less chance of fucking something up), then with the meter measure the resistance across the two terminals for the switch. Should measure 0-2 ohms.
Are you sure you connected all the terminals on the starter motor correctly?
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You can also visually inspect the fusable link, its in the trunk next to the battery about a foot away. You have to unwrap it to get a good look.
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$50 ! Can't let eric have all the fun on that now can we ?Originally Posted by Lopid1014
There is no relay issue for a no crank but the car runs on push start. So don't waste your time checking any relays. Just go straight for the fusible link. There are two in the car. Please google to find their exact locations pictures available. Then wrap wires around the bolts securing both ends of each fusible link. If the engine starts after that, then its confirmed that the fusible link is the issue. Get them - they only cost like $3 each and take 5 minutes to replace. In any case, even if this is not the issue, get them and replace them.
You may also have a bad starter. You need to check that. Locate your starter. Hit it with medium force with a long stick, ideally metal stick. Knock the barrel portion about ten times. Then turn the key and see if it cranks. If it does then your starter is the issue and it is now officially a zombie - you should not drive the car and you should have it replaced immediately.
This test will not be 100% reliable. The 100% reliable test is You jumping the relevant points in the starter directly with a wire or a long screwdriver. You'll need to see youtube videos on how to do this. And when you hit the two correct terminals, there will be sparks - this is normal and nothing to be concerned about. If the starter does not run after this, then the starter is well and truly dead.
Sometimes the two points on the starter to jump are awkwardly placed on your engine and you can't bridge the connections easily. No problem. Take a long metal screwdriver with a plastic or wooden handle. Take a jumped cable. Put one point onyour B+ jumper port, and clip the other to the screwdriver's probe nearest to the handle. Put the other end on the relevant point on the starter. Take great care to ensure that the jumper clamp does not come into contact with any other part of the engine or car while doing this - maybe wrap it with cloth or something. The engine and car body is battery negative.
Its one of those two and I've shown you the relatively simple ways to test them, and what to avoid testing and wasting your time with. $50 please.I'll wait till you're done with the tests.
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I don't think it's the fuseable link because he can turn on the head lights .
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Bad fusible links can be tricky. It pays to check, I came up with a simple way to test this on another thread that no one had heard of before, it worked there, it will work here (if the links are the problem), and its easier to check the links than to check the starter, and he ought to change the links anyway so a good idea to familiarise oneself with it.
Op, toss a coin and check either the fusible links or the starter first. If the toss says starter and it is indeed the starter, fix the starter, but also change out your fusible links too sometime soon.
shade tree mechanic
Moderator
do not mix up with E34. E36 has no fusible links , if so singular, read this thread https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...328is-No-Start
JDStrickland comments: Your car does not have a fusible link on the larger wire. The large wire goes to the starter and to the alternator, the smaller wire has a link because it goes to multiple loads. On ANY car with a Fusible Link, you can test the link by using your volt meter on Pin 14 of the Data Link Connector, if there is voltage, the link is good. It is always true that the DLC, Pin 14 goes to the battery. In some cases, the fusible link is in between Pin 14 and the battery, but there is no case where Pin 14 does not go to the battery.
Last edited by shogun; 03-05-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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Great southern trendkill
On my e34 it hated being cold. I'm sure a heating pad would work better but....I had to get a damp rag heated in microwave and put in plastic ziploc bag. I lifted up rear seat and laid plastic bag on the control modules under the seat. Heat from rag caused connections to warm and expand. Car started afterwards. Maybe something similar on your car?
A methodical approach is best. I would listen to Shogun, he knows these cars inside and out
Last edited by Sleepyhead97; 03-05-2019 at 09:51 AM.
Member
Checking the fusable link and will post back thanks guys hopefully it works
Member
Checked fusable link and made sure each end was connected with wire still no crank. When I turn the key all the way it makes a short/electrical sound every time and then continues to somtimes make a vibrating noise coming from my fuse box going to check starter now$50 ! Can't let eric have all the fun on that now can we ?
There is no relay issue for a no crank but the car runs on push start. So don't waste your time checking any relays. Just go straight for the fusible link. There are two in the car. Please google to find their exact locations pictures available. Then wrap wires around the bolts securing both ends of each fusible link. If the engine starts after that, then its confirmed that the fusible link is the issue. Get them - they only cost like $3 each and take 5 minutes to replace. In any case, even if this is not the issue, get them and replace them.
You may also have a bad starter. You need to check that. Locate your starter. Hit it with medium force with a long stick, ideally metal stick. Knock the barrel portion about ten times. Then turn the key and see if it cranks. If it does then your starter is the issue and it is now officially a zombie - you should not drive the car and you should have it replaced immediately.
This test will not be 100% reliable. The 100% reliable test is You jumping the relevant points in the starter directly with a wire or a long screwdriver. You'll need to see youtube videos on how to do this. And when you hit the two correct terminals, there will be sparks - this is normal and nothing to be concerned about. If the starter does not run after this, then the starter is well and truly dead.
Sometimes the two points on the starter to jump are awkwardly placed on your engine and you can't bridge the connections easily. No problem. Take a long metal screwdriver with a plastic or wooden handle. Take a jumped cable. Put one point onyour B+ jumper port, and clip the other to the screwdriver's probe nearest to the handle. Put the other end on the relevant point on the starter. Take great care to ensure that the jumper clamp does not come into contact with any other part of the engine or car while doing this - maybe wrap it with cloth or something. The engine and car body is battery negative.
Its one of those two and I've shown you the relatively simple ways to test them, and what to avoid testing and wasting your time with. $50 please.
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Thank you. So me and Eric have learned something new today. The fusible link can never be the issue for no crank situations on E36s.
OP good that you checked anyway. Now you know where it is. When you ultimately find the problem behind this no crank, you'll need to order parts, order a new fusible link as well for like $3 more and have that changed as well. And the sounds that you describe - classic starter sounds.
$50 please.
Member
Soon as it cranks over $50 bucks is yours haha . So let’s say I check the starter an everything turns out good what eles could be a issue ? My ews wouldn’t play in affect to this would it ? Like I said car ran fine before old owner tried to start it after letting sit for 3 weeks and nothing assumed was starter. I’m gonna be posting ina few hours after I check starter (waiting for dad to get home to help) .
Member
So I think you misunderstood on how to inspect the fusable link. You need to expose the fuse to inspect it, so whatever tape is on it has to come off. View the pic in the thread that showgun posted, it looks like a circuit board with like a shinny foil on it, in the pic the foil has burnt off.
You need to do more electrical diagnostics to understand why your hearing funny noises. Not easy to help with that over the internet. But like I said earlier you have to check (test) all the relays and fuses.
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It's very strange to me that BMW didn't feel the need to fuse the main power wire in the trunk.
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Ordinarily your ews2 could be an issue. If it is damaged, your starter will not be allowed to crank. But your ecu will also not be energized, and you wouldn'e be able to pop start the thing, which you can. So ews2 is not an issue.
It is the starter. And anyway, the $50 is for correct diagnosis, not for repair. So if it doesn't crank, but is the fault here - I still win !
Do the two tests for the starter that I taught you. Show them to your dad - he will immediately recognise what its all about. Knocking on the starter, and applying direct current to it, are things that have been done for 50 years.
shade tree mechanic
Moderator
Before we guide him the wrong way, please double check here in the 1995 ETM http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/19...g%20Manual.pdf
fusible link symbol in the diagram is marked always black. On page 0670.2-01 we see F97 fusible link, from battery + to 2 points at B+ jump start junction box. From there one line goes then to front power distribution box via X7183, and one line from there to the starter. Look especially at the B+ junction box G6430, there is a line in the box between X6432 and X6401. I have read of some cases where the connection between these 2 points in B+ was the problem. It is not a fusible link , must be something solid.
and the other line to X6410...= fuel pump relay, engine control module relay DME, TCU etc.
Now back to this link, where some people described how to test this https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...328is-No-Start
quote
Your car does not have a fusible link on the larger wire. The large wire goes to the starter and to the alternator, the smaller wire has a link because it goes to multiple loads. On ANY car with a Fusible Link, you can test the link by using your volt meter on Pin 14 of the Data Link Connector, if there is voltage, the link is good. It is always true that the DLC, Pin 14 goes to the battery. In some cases, the fusible link is in between Pin 14 and the battery, but there is no case where Pin 14 does not go to the battery.
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Various models use the bottom of the B+ Post as a distribution point, but not all. The nut on the bottom of the post absolutely can, and does, come loose. If you are going to work on this, you should be sure to disconnect the negative post from the battery to avoid turning your wrenches in to an arc welder should it take an errant path.
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Posted by Eric93se I stand corrected about the fuse link location. But the B post is a distribution block, so the connections made there can come loose.
posted by MParallel But that's no fusible link. (in German litterlaly a melting fuse).
posted by jc43089 A very easy test is to set meter to voltage, put one meter lead on the large wire, and the other on the small wire at the jump start spot under the hood. The meter should read 0 because they are hooked together in the trunk at the battery. If you see voltage difference the fusible link is blown. Don't go cutting the nice heat shrink until you test.
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so I suggest he just does these tests. Now I am thinking if the problem might be internal in the B+ post? Here howe that looks, #14 12421433232 http://de.bmwfans.info/parts-catalog..._battery_rear/
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...e/12421433232/
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...us-12421433232
But if he tests as described above, we will know.
@Thomas525: we are not sure if he has EWS I or EWS II, 1995 can mean model year or produced 1995, he has to check the exact month of production.
Drive Away Protection System (EWS) Model: EWS I/EWS II/EWS III/EWS III D -E31/E34/E36/E38/E39/E46/E52/E53 -Production Date: All since 1/94
EWS I
EWS I was installed on vehicles beginning production 1/94, replacing the original Drive Away Protection System.
Purpose of the System
The next level of compliancy with the European Insurance Commission required additional changes from the previous system. An additional component was added called the Starter Immobilization Relay. This relay module provides added theft prevention and safety features.
At the time of introduction the system was referred to as Electronic Drive Away Protection which in German is Electronische Wegfahrsperre or EWS. The EWS I system consisted of the following components:
• Starter Immobilization Relay
• Door Lock Cylinders and Switch
• General Module
• Board Computer (if equipped)
• Transmission Range Switch
• DME Engine Speed Signal (Beginning 6/94 Production)
• DWA (E31)
System Components
Starter Immobilization Relay
The Starter Immobilization Relay was installed on E31, E34 and E36 vehicles.
It was in the following location:
E36 -In the relay carrier to the left of the steering column.
E31/E34 -In the “A” pillar above the footwell kick panel speaker.
The Starter Immobilization Relay functions as a “Smart Relay”, a relay which receives inputs from various sources looking at the proper combination of input signals before activating a component, in this case the starter.
The Starter Immobilization Relay receives input from:
• Ignition Switch • General Module • Board Computer
• Trans Range Switch • DME (>6/94)
And processes output to:
• Starter • DME
Door Lock Cylinders and Switch
The door lock cylinders and switch input a High/Low signal into the GM informing the GM of lock status. The signal is High when the system is in Double Lock.
General Module
The GM receives the High/Low signal from the door lock switch and outputs a High/Low signal to the Starter Immobilization Relay. A High signal indicates the vehicle is in Double Lock.
Board Computer
The Board Computer outputs a High/Low signal to the Starter Immobilization Relay. A High signal indicates the Code function is active.
Transmission Range Switch
The Transmission Range Switch input with automatic transmission equipped vehicles allows the Starter Immobilization Relay to provide a Neutral safety switch function. A High signal from the Trans range switch indicates the transmission is in Park or Neutral. A Low signal indicates the transmission is in a drive gear and will prevent starter operation.
DME
The DME is both an input device (after 6/94) and an output device of the Starter Immobilization Relay.
Input
Starting with production 6/94, the DME “TD” (engine speed) signal was added to the inputs of the Starter Immobilization Relay. This additional input allows the relay to provide a starter protection feature. The internal relay contact (starter operation) opens if the TD signal exceeds 60 Hz which equals the following engine speeds:
The relay contacts will close when the exceeded Hz value drops to 5Hz below the maximum value. This is intended as a safety feature to prevent starter motor activation when the engine is running above these speeds.
Output
The DME receives a High/Low signal from the Starter Immobilization Relay. When the signal is High, the DME does not activate injector or ignition operation.
DWA (E31)
The DWA outputs a High/Low signal to the Starter Immobilization Relay indicating the condition of the alarm system. A High signal indicates the alarm is armed, preventing vehicle starting.
Principle of Operation
The EWS Starter Immobilization Relay receives it’s inputs from the Ignition switch, GM (or DWA), BC, Trans Range Switch and the DME (after 6/94). The relay will prevent engine starting if:
• The vehicle is locked from the outside. The GM receives the High signal from the door lock switch and sends a High signal to the EWS.
• The BC Code function is set.
• A DWA High signal is received. (E31only)
• A Low signal is received from the Trans Range Switch.
• The engine speed signal from the DME exceeds 60Hz. (after 6/94)
The Ignition and injection functions of the DME are disabled and the KL50 start signal to the starter is opened to prevent starter operation.
EWS II
Starting with 1/95 production, all vehicles were equipped with a new EWS system, EWS II. This change was once again brought about to meet the next level of compliancy with the European Insurance Commission regulations.
Purpose of The System
Changes to the European Insurance Commission regulations made it necessary to introduce a new theft protection system with greater capabilities and a higher level of security. The EWS II system operates independent of the mechanical key. The mechanical key only makes a request of the vehicle starting system. Verification of the key electronically is required before the starting procedure is initiated. The system features wireless communication between a programmed EEPROM housed in the ignition key and the EWS II control module. A key which is properly coded to the EWS II control module is required before starting operation continues. The EWS II and the DME control modules are synchronized through an Individual Serial Number (ISN).The ISN, stored in the EWS II, must match that of the DME every time the ignition is switched “ON” before engine operation is allowed.EWS II was installed on E31, E34,E36, E38 and E39 vehicles.
Major components of the EWS II system are:
• Key with Transponder
• Ring Antenna
• Transmitter/Receiver Module
• EWS II Control Module
• DME Control Module
EWS II Control Module
The EWS II Control Module is linked to the BC, GM, DME, Trans Range switch and the starter for drive away protection operation. The module incorporates an integral starter relay and stores data and codes for communication with the transponder chip.
The function of the EWS II module is to provide improved drive away protection for the vehicle and it incorporates many features of previous systems:
• Lock out of the starter when the code function of the BC is set.
• Disable injection and ignition through the DME.
• Prevent starter engagement with engine running.
• Recognition of Park/Neutral position with automatic transmission.
New features that have been added:
• Disable injection, ignition and starter operation until a correct key is recognized.
• EWS and DME synchronization through the use of the ISN.
• Release of double lock when a correctly coded key is switched on.
The EWS II control module stores the following data for the key transponder inter-link:
• Key identification code- up to 10 keys.
• Key password.
• Changing code- up to 10 keys
more here http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_EWS.pdf
Last edited by shogun; 03-05-2019 at 09:45 PM.
Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!
Member
So I did the test starter spins has power. However the trigger on the starter that gives the starter power once the ignition is turned has no power on it. My dads saying he thinks it’s the ignition switch . Tested old starter for the fun of it and it spins no problem haha ..
shade tree mechanic
Moderator
So the solution is/was to change the ignition switch? I mean item 3 p/n 61321383365 http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...tch/#1383365_3
Ignition switches can go bad due to regular wear and tear over many years and may occasionally need to be replaced, but usually they last well over 100kmiles.
On some models like E31 and E34 there were more reports of defective ignition switches, the eletric part, not the lock.
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Member
I’m getting a new one tommorow hopfully and going to see if that’s the issue !
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Drats.
Member
What I’m thinking actually couldn’t I touch my ignition switch together (like how you do on the starter) to test if it’s even faulty or what that not work new ignition switch is 170 and isn’t in stock in my town
Member
Funny, I didn't suggest the switch because the car was able to start, but I guess it did not start via the switch.
So you should check your build date and month before ordering, looks like there was a part change at 1/95. RMeuropean.com has the part for $77 shipped but its the newer part, they probably have the earlier part as well you would just have to enter a '94 car. Your build month/date is on your B-pillar.
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No he pop started it. If it was able to start via the switch, there would there be a no start no crank thread?
And no op there is no simple way to check on the ignition switch. You basically rule it out. You check the battery/alternator, starter, and ews (add fusible links for the Big Daddy models). Those 3 are collectively responsible for 99% of the issues relating to a no crank situation. If they all check out, then its your ignition switch (that's why it was never suggested). You can either get a new barrel or wire up a dedicated push button switch.
shade tree mechanic
Moderator
Maybe he gives us the VIN, then we can help to find the correct p/n and source for the switch because of the p/n switch 01/1995
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Member
Door card says 9/94 but papers says it’s a 95. Gonna try the ignition switch I think that’s the issue . Alternator/starter/ews all turns out good it push starts so don’t see it being ews. Starter has power just no power to starter trigger once ignition is turns leads me to believe it is ignition switch 100%
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