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Thread: E64 Convertible, Crank, no start.

  1. #1
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    E64 Convertible, Crank, no start.

    Hi Everyone

    Picked up a theft recovery 05 E64. Car had no keys, came into the shop on a flatbed. Contacted previous owner, he orders a new key from BMW and sends it to me. Fully charged the battery, load tested it. Booster pack on the connections under the hood. Car powers up. Fuel pump comes on, fuel pressure at the rail. Crank, no start condition. No spark at the coils. Key operates the doors locks. I pulled the IVM module, under a magnifying glass found a bad cold solder joint. After the repair, same condition, crank, no start. No codes from the OBD2.

    Next step is to try to resync the EWS with the DME. INPA is loaded on a win 7 laptop. Cable is on its way from Amazon. While I wait, any words of wisdom? Anything else to check? On the right track?

    PS: A little background, wrenching on cars for 40+ years, bodyman, mechanic, owned many German cars over the years. This one had me stumped.

    Another PS: Audio system does not power up. Splash screen on the Nav displays BMW but is frozen like that. (Tied to the EWS?)

    Thanks in advance. Dave...

  2. #2
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Hey Dave. Sorry took me a little while to reply.

    From what I can tell, that car should have an "CAS with EWS3.3" system. Read page 10:
    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E64/04_Car...%20Systems.pdf

    That page has an "exceptions are" clause which I think just refers to start/stop button vs key, aka you have 'old fashioned' keys, yes?

    Did you send me a PM because you already saw this?
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ends-are-wrong

    Most of that probably applies to your E64, at least in principle even if the details of the car implementation vary slightly.

    What I'd say is yeah for sure you need the INPA setup to scan the EWS and see if it has codes. Gotta be able to native-scan these cars, not just generic OBD stuff.

    On earlier motors if the DME-EWS sync is bad you'll get codes from both modules so I'd be surprised if EWS sync is the problem without seeing a DME code also. But I don't really know the CAS system differences that well. With INPA you should be able to confirm that the key & EWS/CAS module are working (but with starter-trigger I think we already think you've sorted that out...)

    Can't help with the NAV except to say scan the entire vehicle. A long shot for that would be to try what the guys call the 'battery nap'. This is normally more old-wives-tale bullcrap than truth, but, for a junkyard vehicle that might have had the battery droop way down and back up and down and up etc. repeatedly who knows. Open the battery compartment (trunk I'm assuming on E64 were BMW always likes to put it?), wait 20mins or so for the vehicle to "go to sleep", then disconnect. Let it sit for a while and reconnect. Like I said, doubt it will do anything and most of the time this is BS but sometimes it does work with weird module symptoms.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply Geargrinder... my car has the old school diamond key with no push start button in the dash. So I am assuming it is the AWS system that predates the CAS. Anyone in the GTA area (Toronto west/Canada) That would travel to the car to try a sync? Car is ready to go otherwise. Shop is closing down, owner is retiring. He has been very patient but wants the car out. I had the battery disconnected overnight while I charged it. Connected the positive and negative cables together before reconnecting the battery leads. Once I get it running I will try to scan the audio with INPA. Sounds like the CCC in the 6 series had some known issues. Wouldn't surprise me if it has failed. Parcel tracking shows the laptop cable enroute. Sad that a $20 cable can park such a nice car.
    Last edited by Advtureguy1; 03-04-2019 at 06:10 PM.

  4. #4
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    Update. Resynced the DME and AWS. Car fired right up then stalled. After several attempts to keep it running, decided to pull the plugs and have a look. Front 6 were fairly new, rear two closest to the firewall looked original. Pulled the fuel pump fuse, cranked over the motor and left it overnight to dry. Installed a fresh set of plugs. (hooked up a fuel pressure test gauge to the fuel rail just to check pressure to see if it was more than 51 psi). Instantly fired up. Rough idle but was running after who knows how long it was sitting. Pulled the car outside to let it run, Took it for a short drive then back in the shop to pull codes. 2F71 Ebox fan control, 29CD Misfire cyl 1, 29D0 Misfire cylinder 4, 29CF missfire cyl3, 29CE Missfire cyl 2, 2A88, Outlet Vanos, 2A84 Intake Vanos 2. 2B72 Variable Intake System temp warning Limit. Cleared the codes and took it for another drive. Vanos codes did not come back, but still have a missfire at idle. Sometimes it stalls. I swapped two of the coils to see if the misfire followed the coils. All misfires stayed on the same bank. 1-4.

    Anyone have input where to go next?

  5. #5
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    A set of misfire codes on one bank often indicates a blocked catalytic converter on that bank. A garage can measure the back-pressure at the Lambda probe port - and sometimes the cat will rattle when clouted - but quite difficult to access on the V8!
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  6. #6
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    Thanks for the reply Timm..... If the cat was plugged... would it kick out a Vanos code? Car runs nice above 2000 RPM. Very smooth. Below that has a miss and at idle it is hunting then usually stalls. I pulled one vanos solenoid from the passenger side bank. Looks very clean. Going to reinstall tomorrow and give it another run. Car has been sitting for at least 5 months now, before that it was parked in underground parking, 1474762124199_0 (1).jpg for long lengths of time. Car has 200,000km on it.

  7. #7
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    No, a blocked cat often shows itself at full-throttle as that increases the gas flow through it - so if you can manage a lot of power then you can rule the cats out.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  8. #8
    geargrinder's Avatar
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    Yep I'd agree w/ Timm re: cats and dle misfires vs high RPM misfires. Run down the rest of the 'bank specific' checklist...

    - O2's and related wiring (bashed up in the 'unpleasant history' it was subjected to?)
    - coil ground on that side
    - Possibly bank intake manifold leak aka 1-side gasket (more often tho' only if its been apart recently, seems unlikely for this car)
    - VANOS (but less likely also to be a 'bad at idle but good at mid-band...')

    Re: the solenoid, I don't know N62 at all, but for M62 the solenoids are VERY bulletproof, seldom known to have issues... Guys always hope that's their problem because even if its expensive it just bolts off the front of the motor. It never ever is.

    I'd also say as a general rule with long-park cars, its worth - at least after a fluid change - running them for a bit and seeing what magically sorts itself out.

    BTW, is there a temp related change at all? Like does it misfire only on cold-idle but go away if you rip it around for :15 and get everything all warmed up? Or the opposite?
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
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  9. #9
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    The plot thickens...

    (Geargrinder)... the miss is the same at running temp or cold. If I gently push the RPM past 3000 then let off slowly the motor smoothes out nicely. The miss comes back when the rpm drops below 1000 rpm.

    (Geargrinder) Fluid change done, I like the "magically sort itself out idea" I have been there with BMW cars in the past. A 528 I picked up a few years ago was a similar story.... Was on the fence of parting it out, or driving it. One trip to the end of the road with the pedal on the floor fixed it. :-).... not quite there with this car..... yet...


    I pulled the valvetronic motors from each bank and swapped them. More to see if there was something in common for the entire bank to show misfires. Car started right up and was VERY smooth... You can feel both motors cycle when the key is switched on. Engine is still hunting and stalling below 900 rpm, but was making nice power above that, the best it has run since this adventure started. :-) Pulled the coil connector from each coil (@1000rpm) to see if we could find the miss. #2 on the left bank was the only one that changed engine rpm. Pulling 1, 3 and 4 made little difference. Swapped #2 with #3... Looks like I have 3 bad coils that show spark when you test them, but must be break down under load at lower RPM's. I have a box of coils from my parts bins. Next step is to swap the coils and take it for a run. During the testing we scanned as we went. 1,2,3,4 misfire codes continue , at one point (B camshaft Position-timing over-Advanced or system performance Bank 1) code came up. But with later scans, it disappeared.

    Its an up hill battle, but seem to be making some progress each time.

    Welcome any comments or things to try.

    Thanks...

  10. #10
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    Update.... Oil pressure switch changed, new o-rings in the vac pump. Oil leaks fixed.

    Back to the low rpm miss.

    Swapped out the coils, same condition. Took the car out for another drive. Above 2000 rpm the car is a rocket. Below 1000rpm the car is still hunting, below 800rpm the car is stalling. The car is still coding on just one bank, 1 2 3 and 4 missfires. Intermittent vanos codes. After talking to a few shops in the area that service European cars the next step looks like pulling the valve cover. Eccentric cam gear (missing tooth) cam sensor or shaft out of time. Going to pull the connector from the sensor later today and see if the idle picks up. That should confirm I am on the right track.

    Anyone care to add their $.02? Pointers on pulling the valve cover?

  11. #11
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    Update... Pulled the eccentric cam sensor plug. No oil inside, car still stumbles and stalls below 1000 rpm. Exhaust is not as warm on the passenger side of the car as the drivers. Any pointers where to go next? Has to be something in common on that side of the engine.

  12. #12
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    After reading for hours..... looks like the next step is a smoke test. Could a vac leak be the issue? If a CCV or valve cover gasket is leaking on just one side, would it cause misfires on just one bank or would both banks be effected?

  13. #13
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    As you have diagnostics there should be no need for a smoke machine as described here:



    .....and more information here:

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Diagnostics.htm
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  14. #14
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    Thanks Timm

    I spent a bit of time on on the car last night. Pulled the CCV diaphram, it looks like new. Also pulled the the CCV hose that connects the intake to the valve cover, also looks like new. I"m guessing someone has already been chasing the problem. I was ready to pull the valve cover last night but ran out of time.

    My diagnostic cable is still not here, I can call my friend that has the INPA set up, but the owner of the shop wants the car out.

    I will get the car up to my place and get it plugged in with INPA when the cable arrives, before I go any farther, I was actually looking forward to pulling things apart to see what kind of magic goes on under that valve cover LOL.

    I have a few other car and motorcycle projects on the go so the 645 will have be put on the back burner, spring is almost here, time to pull the 911 out of storage.

    I will update when I get back at it.



    Thanks again everyone.

  15. #15
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    Hi everyone... back to the car this weekend. Had a closer look with the valvetronic motor out. Looks like I have some missing teeth inside. Eccentric shaft... options?

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    Picked up the parts today.... any words of wisdom on changing it before I break out the tools? Doesnt look like too bad of a job. 20190403_171457.jpg20190403_171443.jpg Picked them up at Beemer Heaven in Milton. Great guys to deal with.

  17. #17
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    Hi Everyone... Very successful weekend. Motor all back together, had to order a tool on Amazon to time the cams. This car is a ROCKET... LOL... now I know why they call this motor the BEAST!! Now that it is running nice... Can anyone help with the CCC? I have read until my eyes went blurry... Looks like the only fix is a new CCC... I only have a couple of grand into this car... not sure if I want to spend $1200 on a CCC. Is the capacitor fix a scam? Any aftermarket options? I have wired up a lot of multi amp systems. Just need to find something that fits and I would like to keep the nav screen.

    dave...

  18. #18
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    Well done - most would have given up after looking under the valve covers!
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  19. #19
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    My CCC was operating OK, but I wanted a backup camera. I tried one from Emerald products, but it did not work. I ended up getting the Avin system, and it intergrates with the CCC. The replacement system includes a new screen, and cables.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    Well done - most would have given up after looking under the valve covers!
    Thanks Timm Really wasnt that hard. There is a great video of a guy timing the cams. He has it on an engine stand that would make it much easier. I just watched that a few times and the kit for timing the cams holds your hand most of the way.

    If anyone is attempting this... When you remove all the bolts and nuts that holds the cage, that holds the eccentric shaft... dont pry on the cage.. lol... the cage splits in half and is bolted through from underneath. You need to remove the vanos and the front engine plate that holds the vacuum pump. (this will make sense when you pull off the valve cover. Make sure you lock the crank at the harmonic balancer first before you remove the vanos and cam chain.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks airbus... I will have a look... Do you want to part with your CCC? send me a pm.

  21. #21
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    Just found this.. I did at one point has an SOS error and I have no door or key chimes.. Remove the TCU module and use a fiber optic loop?

    The BMW Assist portion of the TCU has most likely failed. You can code the car and remove the BMW Assist option by adding +TELD to the VO and defaulting the car. This will leave bluetooth functional and remove the SOS error/restore the MOST bus/sound.

  22. #22
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    Hi Everyone... car is running fantastic.. but I have no music... I ordered a female MOST bypass test loop. Can anyone tell me the order of the fiber optic network? CCC >Disc changer> TCU> Sat radio> Logic 7 amp> back to CCC? Does that sound right? I pulled the back seat and have light at the TCU, but no optics in the trunk. The sat radio module has already been removed before I got in there. The plan is to jump the TCU when the bypass loop arrives. I have the SOS error on the dash display which I think points to the TCU.

    Any wise words of wisdom?

    PS: Can a moderator change the title of this thread? I am getting off topic from the original post. ( Maybe call it 645ci rescue)

  23. #23
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    Not really, as I am still using my CCC, sorry!
    But you might be able to send it in and have it repaired. Check this site, http://www.bmwlogicseven.com/ and look at electronics.
    I am not sure they are still in business, but if they are, looks like they can repair ccc's.

  24. #24
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    I started a new thread for the CCC repair. I pulled it apart. Repaired a connection on the MB. I now have Chimes!!!! but still reboots.

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