e36 Spark Plug Threads Oily

[donb318]

Quick Question: I was checking out my spark plugs the other day and noticed that each one had oil on the threads. Not much though. I did not see oil on the spark gap though. Should there be no oil whatsoever on the plugs or is it normal to have some oil on them?

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[finsky]

There shouldn't be oil, most leaky a leaky valve cover gasket at the seals that are around the spark plug holes.

[thenjnick]

Depends..is it dripping down from the valve cover gasket at the upper part of the spark tube or is it coming from underneath the threads? You would hope for a bad valve cover otherwise your piston rings could be going..


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[donb318]

Depends..is it dripping down from the valve cover gasket at the upper part of the spark tube or is it coming from underneath the threads? You would hope for a bad valve cover otherwise your piston rings could be going..


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Its just on the threads and not the electrodes. Or maybe its being burned off but doesn't look burnt. I installed new plugs last night. I still see oil on the threads but that could just be residual.

[thenjnick]

If you’re driving it enough, the oil is probably being burned off, not causing any misfiring? 2 cylinders on my car are leaking oil into the spark tubes..not really causing an issue yet. At that mileage though its possible your rings or valve stem seals are worn out.

[donb318]

If you’re driving it enough, the oil is probably being burned off, not causing any misfiring? 2 cylinders on my car are leaking oil into the spark tubes..not really causing an issue yet. At that mileage though its possible your rings or valve stem seals are worn out.

I am not experiencing any misfiring and no CEL.

I'll tell you how this all got started.... My car was losing coolant and intermittently running hot for the longest. Come to find out I had a hose leaking underneath the intake manifold. I had my mechanic fix that but then my car had acceleration lag. Found out a vacuum hose had split. Fixed that. Then my car had occasional minor lags while accelerating and loss of power. With loss of power, I went straight for the plugs. That is how I noticed the oil.

After I replaced the plugs, I have power back and no more acceleration lag. But then just today, the car was hard to start. Seems like it does this after sitting for a bit. Like overnight or a few days. Then as I am driving, white smoke occasionally comes out of the tail pipe. Its a light smoke not super thick. When it sits more, it is thicker though. Also, when the white smoke appears, I do not know if I am imagining things but it smells like anti-freeze.

[donb318]

I just got off the phone with my mechanic and now he thinks its a leaky head gasket and said it will cost thousands to fix.

[thenjnick]

How long does the smoke generally come out of the exhaust? Any overheats? Are you seeing this at operating temps? Could be just minor HG failure (enough to cause power loss but not the usual signs of a bd HG). What condition is your oil and coolant in? Ive been chasing pretty much the same symptoms with this car as you but its showing little to no indicators of a bad gasket. Only power loss and bogging down when giving it a lot of gas.


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[thenjnick]

Have you run a compression or leakdown test? You may want to give that a try before going any further..


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[donb318]

How long does the smoke generally come out of the exhaust? Any overheats? Are you seeing this at operating temps? Could be just minor HG failure (enough to cause power loss but not the usual signs of a bd HG). What condition is your oil and coolant in? Ive been chasing pretty much the same symptoms with this car as you but its showing little to no indicators of a bad gasket. Only power loss and bogging down when giving it a lot of gas.


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The white smoke comes out for 30 seconds or so. Its not overheating (ever since the coolant leak was fixed). I am seeing the white smoke at operating temps but it reaches that within a couple of minutes of driving. My coolant is new since my mechanic fixed the leak recently. I have not checked the oil level yet. I can do that tonight.

I am driving my other BMW today. Its a good thing I have two cars.

Its weird how after I replaced the plugs, the white smoke and sluggish starts went right away but then the next morning its back.

[thenjnick]

That sounds normal, possibly just condensation collecting in the exhaust though its a little concerning that it smells like coolant, perhaps its running a little rich and that could be the smell? As far as the plugs, i imagine the oil is blown away from the electrodes when under compression possibly the oil just reaches the sweet spot after sitting.


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[donb318]

That sounds normal, possibly just condensation collecting in the exhaust though its a little concerning that it smells like coolant, perhaps its running a little rich and that could be the smell? As far as the plugs, i imagine the oil is blown away from the electrodes when under compression possibly the oil just reaches the sweet spot after sitting.


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Yeah my mechanic said the white smoke is normal and its condensation and all old cars have it. Well my car just started doing it coincidentally with all of these other problems.

I am not sure if the white smoke smells like anti-freeze. I'd have to jump out of the car and run back there to be sure. My mind just seems to smell anti-freeze even when the white smoke isn't appearing. I checked the coolant level and its only about two inches low.

I will check the spark plugs again for oil after the car has been sitting for awhile. I checked yesterday after it sat all day at work and there was just oil on the threads and no where else.

Something has to be leaking somewhere because the car struggles to start after its been sitting around for awhile (sounds like its coughing up something and then once the cough is clear, the car starts). If it hasn't been sitting for awhile, it drives a-ok.

[thenjnick]

This car does what you describe as well. Cold start, it cranks slower and takes about 3-4 seconds to start up. When warm it will crank much easier,faster and fires up immediately. I just ran a compression test and got 140 psi across all cylinders and after adding some oil to coat the pistons about 270. So i think ive concluded my rings are well worn out.

Make sure there’s no white-ish oil residue under the oil cap, down in the valve train or in the coolant reservoir.


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[Thomas525]

These are simple issues to diagnose and fix, thankfully. Firstly. white smoke could well be condensation. It could also be a bad headgasket or worse. Drive the car constantly for the next 2 months and monitor how much coolant you are losing. If you are losing alot, quickly, and there is no coolant leak then it could be a head issue. Purchase a $35 compression testor or borrow one from autozone and compression test your engine when cold and hot - this will take about 30 minutes in and out each time so 60 minutes total.

If you have a head gasket issue, and you are not losing too much coolant too quickly and your power seems to be normal, then live with it. If you are also not losing oil too quickly that's a good thing. In this case, don't bother to do any repair. It is very unlikely to get worse. Just top up water every 4 weeks, it takes 5 minutes. Every 6 months top up antifreeze directly. 2 years later when it is time to refresh your coolant, use a block sealer which does not have any particulates in it i.e. sodium silicate alone. Flush it out fully and backflush it fully after running the engine at idle for 1 hour. The problem should be permanently fixed after that since it is so mild.

Lets come to your cold start issues. This is most likely a bad coolant temperature sensor overfuelling your engine when cold making it too hard to start. Easily tested. Unplug the sensor before your first crank of the morning, then start the engine. If it starts more or less normally, do this for the next couple of days. If the fix stays, then order a new oem sensor - $30 max - and have it replaced within 30 days. It could be other stuff like the afm but is usually the coolant temp sensor.

How did your mechanic come to the conclusion that it was a headgasket without doing a compression test and checking coolant levels I don't know.

Anyway there's another way to check for headgasket issues. Remove the rad cap and start the engine. Fill it up to the brim. Let the engine warm up. Do you notice a steady stream of SMALL bubbles ? Yes? No? If yes then you likely have a problem.

Just remembered. Another very simple and fast way to check if your hg or cylinder head has a problem. Get a block testor. Very reliable, not expensive, and you can do it yourself within 30 minutes at home with no tools. Many videos about this online.

Sorry op rambled on abit too tired, good night.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yes. Worn piston rings are not going to produce oil in the plug's oil threads. Excess oil not scrapped off by the piston rings (because they are too worn to do a good job) will be burned off during combustion - you'll get bluish white smoke. And the plugs threads do not jut into the combustion chamber at all. As someone else pointed out, you have worn valve cover plug seals. You can change it, but my view ? If you're not losing much oil, not losing any power, not getting any smoke (if you get oil smoke, you should also be losing oil, if not the smoke is something else - condensation most likely), just leave it alone.

Please drive your car constantly the next few days to test things.

[donb318]

I will let you all know the results once I try all of those things.

@Thomas525 Did you mean the temperature switch or the sensor? In regards to the temp switch, its weird because I did start having the rough starts after I replaced it a couple of months ago. Its a FACET sensor and is supposed to be OEM but who knows?

I am going to check all of the stuff you guys suggested within the next few days. I appreciate the help!

[donb318]

I just performed some of the suggested checks after I got home.

The results are as follows...

1. Oil was nice and clean underneath cap, inside valve train and on dipstick.
2. Oil level was OK.
3. Expansion tank coolant level was six inches low (yesterday it was 2 inches).
4. I topped it up and noticed micro bubbles during pouring.
5. Car struggled to start (about 5 seconds).
6. Car idled smooth @ 800 rpm.
7. I saw one tiny bubble stream in coolant but it went away shortly.
8. Car idled for 10 minutes and micro bubbles were present (see pic).
9. Temperature needle remained dead center.
10. Exhaust emitted a miniscule light grayish smoke (see pic).
11. More smoke would appear whenever I revved to 3500 rpm (same thing I see while driving).

[thenjnick]

It does look like it could be coolant burning..but it stops after or its constantly letting out smoke like that? I’d get a compression tester for sure, can be had from autozone for like $30 just to be positive..


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[donb318]

It does look like it could be coolant burning..but it stops after or its constantly letting out smoke like that? I’d get a compression tester for sure, can be had from autozone for like $30 just to be positive..


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Its constantly letting out that light gray smoke shown in the previous pic. I saw at AutoZone where they loan out a Block tester.

[thenjnick]

If its constant then it sounds more like a head gasket issue. Block tester, compression, leak down, even a coolant pressure tester kit will help point you in the right direction. Worth the investment even better if you get a loaner tool, good luck


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[Thomas525]

How could they loan out a block tester? Block testers require a solution that changes colour in the presence of combustion gasses. And this is a one time use thing. Oh, you need to buy the solution separately?

Don't bother with compression tests. Just use the block tester. Its fast and cheap nowadays. That will answer the hg issue. Assuming it is negative, go onto the next test :

To rule out oil leaking into the chambers through the plug wells, do this: get white pipe tape/thread tape, the type plumbers use. Wrap it around each spark plug, a couple of turns, to make it really tight (you'll need some trial and error to determine this), then screw them all in. Then start the engine and monitor smoke levels. If the oil was coming through the plug wells, then this maneouver should reduce the oil coming through significantly, at least for a while. Enough for you to notice a difference. If there is a difference, then you know where the problem is - valve cover gasket. Redo that. If it makes no difference, then we have an idea of where the issue is - most likely oil passages from the hg, or bad valve guides from valvetrain. These two would be expensive fixes.

Your rate of coolant loss is high. If the block tester's check is negative for hg gasses, then you need to get a new radiator cap. Or if you have another good one right now, you can use that immediately.

Regardless, the signs are not that great. Peace of mind required. Block tester asap.

And yes I was talking about the engine coolant temperature sensor on the cylinder head. It might be blue tipped or it might not be. This one goes from the head to the ecu, and not to the dashboard. Some engines have the dash temp sender and ects combined into one 4 pin sensor.

If the block tester is positive, then you have a hg issue. No need to check anything else because if you change the hg you'll need to change the valve cover gasket as well even if its in good shape.

[donb318]

I'll do the block test this weekend. I didn't get the details of the loaner block tester. I'll buy the solution if necessary. I just see they loan it.

[donb318]

@Thomas525

It's interesting that you mentioned my radiator cap because my mechanic told me to replace it after he fixed the coolant leak (the other week) because it was too tight. I told him I would replace it but have not gotten a-round-to-it yet. He said to make sure I use a genuine cap.

I have gone through two caps in the recent months. I bought them from AutoZone and so not genuine.

Yes I know exactly where that temperature sensor is because I changed it about a month or so ago. It has a blue connector. I can do the disconnect test as that sensor is the one near the front. I replaced it with a FAE brand sensor. And so nope its not genuine.

[thenjnick]

These engines love OEM electronics, not so much the cheaper ones..


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[donb318]

These engines love OEM electronics, not so much the cheaper ones..


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Yeah I've known that for quite awhile. I honestly do not know which brands are OEM or not. Of course when you ask, they always say yeah its OEM.

The biggest thing I am trying to ascertain firstly is if the head gasket is blown.

If its that, I am definitely done with that car.

I was just reading how one dude's e36 was fine with compression but he still had the same exact problem as me.

[thenjnick]

And by OEM I mean genuine bmw only lol. Just a few of these sensors are worth more than the car its very sad


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