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Thread: 2008 335xi, rough start and idle, metal flakes...

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    2006 525xi

    2008 335xi, rough start and idle, metal flakes...

    I might just cut my losses on this one... it's a higher miles (196k) 335xi (September build date). Was running OK, but died last week and CEL/runs rough.

    CEL is on, pulled and cleaned VANOS solenoids after getting 2A80 and 2A85 codes.
    There were other codes, but my dang screenshot didn't work before I cleared them (UGH). These popped up when I started after clearing codes.

    Takes a few cranks to start and when it does, it's rough. I didn't leave it running long because I didn't want to mess anything up further. Can't tell if there is a knock, or if it's misfiring/timing.

    First alarm was what I thought were metal flakes when I pulled the VANOS solenoids. But there weren't a ton, so I thought (prayed) maybe I got my rag dirty on accident. But this morning the fear set in when I pulled the oil filter and found some flakes...



    As I mentioned in the first sentence, I'll probably just cut losses since it's higher miles and I don't feel like doing the rod bearing job. But, is there a chance (or way to tell) if it could be bearing ledges? I've read that the color of the flakes is a way to tell, but I'm not sure I trust my eye/brain that much.

  2. #2
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    Send 4 ounces of your oil to Blackstone Labs.

    That said, when I see metal flakes in the oil filter, I'm thinking it needs a new engine.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  3. #3
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    I agree. Metal flakes in the filter is not good at all. That means the metal flakes are probably disbursed throughout your engine. The damage has likely been done. Especially if it's already knocking.
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  4. #4
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    That’s kinda what I figured. Ughhhh.

    i quickly glanced around my area and found a 2008 535i engine from a part out. Other than the oil pan (i vs xi), would anything not match up? I’m not sure that I want to go to the trouble to do a swap, but it may come to it.

  5. #5
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    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  6. #6
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    Mar 2018
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    As these things go, I went ahead and grabbed that engine. And then I got really busy with work. Tinkering a little bit with it today, drained all the oil and definitely have some copper colored fine particles and flakes. Are the bearings for the camshaft copper or is this definitely rod bearings?

  7. #7
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    The cams don't have bearings. The actual head and cam caps are the bearing surfaces. Copper would be from rod bearings.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  8. #8
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    Got it, thanks. Makes more sense after seeing underneath the valve cover.

    Oddly enough, I can turn the engine by hand with a socket and breaker bar. And found that the exhaust camshaft is out of time. I’m sure that’s not coincidence to happen at the same time as finding the flakes, but would anyone speculate as to what would have knocked it out of time?

  9. #9
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    ***Another new development. I wanted to time the engine, even though the particles are most likely from rod bearings. After I put the engine in time, I followed the manual procedure to turn the engine two revolutions by hand and then re check timing.

    To my surprise, the exhaust camshaft didn’t turn with the intake. If I place a wrench on exhaust camshaft bolt, it will turn the camshaft. Is there a chance the pulley wheel is stripped or something? I couldn’t get lucky enough for the flakes to be from that...

    How would you guys proceed?

  10. #10
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    Sounds like the Vanos gear is broken so the cam doesn't move.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  11. #11
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    Tinkered more today. It appears somehow the VANOS gear did indeed break (the one the chain actually goes on, not the thin actuator) failed. I borrowed the one from my other engine and it stays in time. Also definitely has compression as when rotating by hand it was very obvious.

    I must tear the gear/pulley down to see what’s inside.

    Before I try to crank the car, I just wanted to double check that the position of those VANOS pulley wheels on the chain doesn’t matter right? You time the cams and impulse wheels separately, so I can’t imagine it would...

  12. #12
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    Right. Gear goes in any position.

    Lock the crank with the timing pin. Make sure you get the right hole in the flywheel. There's two. When you get the correct one, the engine will not turn at all. The wrong hole will give you a few degrees of play each way. Lock the cams with the tools. Put the reluctor wheels on and line them up with the tool. Tighten and torque the new vanos bolts.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  13. #13
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    So I got it all buttoned up today. Again, this was just for my curiosity more than anything since I found that exhaust camshaft slightly out of time. To my surlrise, it started up easily. Less to my surprise, there is a clack clack clack sound. I shut it down immediately.

    I realize it’s most likely rod knock, but would I damage anything else (any worse) by setting my phone to record and running it long enough for a little video?

  14. #14
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    What's the point? The engine is trash.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  15. #15
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    I just wanted to confirm it as rod knock. But I started it again and I think it is.

    https://youtu.be/DLio5k9pwB4

  16. #16
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    So if anyone was wondering... check out this video of my rod bearing gap test. It’s not very scientific, but I sure as heck know there shouldn’t be a half to 3/4 cm space when gently pressing with a screwdriver.

    Motor is pretty much ready to come out the top. Working on bottom tomorrow. With any luck I’ll get to use the crane...

    https://youtu.be/OglmDS6T-Ac

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