E36 Bosch/ZKW/Euro headlights confusion

[DeletedUser46879]

Hey all. First post in this section of the forum. I had been posting in the E39 section for my own car. Today it is a little different . This is a long read, but may become a reference in the future.

One of my good friends and I were doing some work on his E36 328iC, and it looks like we're gonna have to change out the headlights. Stock ones are in unbelievably bad shape, though I think they are indeed original to the car, despite being seemingly low quality. I learned something recently about the USA E36 cars having crappy plastic headlights from the factory. anyway, they are cracked at the back too, and they kinda jiggle around, so I think some of the mounting points are probably broken off. we aren't gonna bother messing with them. time for a fresh new set.

I am trying to help him decide on a replacement. I've been searching this forum and others, and the main thing that I have found is everyone recommending against buying a set of US-market BMW OEM lights (like those that are on the car now). the pitting and yellowing will apparently happen again, and it is worth it to get something better. my friend is all about using highest quality equipment, so he decided against DEPO brand headlights. I told him I didn't think those were that bad (they don't cost too much and they have glass outer covers too ) but it's his car ultimately, and if it were mine, I'd also probably decide on something a little better than DEPO, even if it cost more.

this brings me to my (our) question. I have found a whole slew of "euro" headlights and headlight options and I am trying to figure out differences between some of them. I will list what I have so far below that my friend was interested in and hopefully someone will chime in to fill in the blanks/give us advice/confirm what I am saying as right or wrong

1. "European spec headlights", "European BMW" listed as the brand, on ecs tuning, sold as a set. to me, these look like the same thing as the regular US-market headlights, but with a glass outer cover instead of plastic. they otherwise appear to be identical, and seem to have the same parabolic reflectors internally (on high beam and low beam), with two circular, fluted glass lenses between the reflector bowl and the outer plastic. Am I correct in all of this? it also didn't strike me as being the true headlight that would have been found on Euro-market cars (I've seen pictures) so I kept digging. it just looked like the US ones, but with glass instead of plastic.

2. Bosch and ZKW headlights. ok so these appear to have a parabolic reflector for the high beam (like USA ones) but a projector lens setup for the low beam. glass outer cover instead of plastic for both ZKW and Bosch. these seem more like the real deal, and may well even be the real deal. for the high beam, both seem to have a parabolic reflector bowl housing, with a circular fluted glass lens in front. I am however not totally certain about the differences between the low beams of the two. from reading about this on other forums and online sources, it seems to me that the ZKW brand headlights utilize a low beam setup that uses a parabolic reflector bowl, a cutoff shield, and a separate projector crystal lens mounted up front (like most HID systems do today). The Bosch lights, if I am correct, use a more effective setup (and more expensive to produce), utilizing a parabolic reflector bowl, with a fluted glass lens in front of it that has an unfluted refractive circle built into the center of the glass, no cutoff shield I believe. correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the pre-facelift E39 xenon lights have this same setup on the low beam (the only difference being that the bulb is HID on the E39, whereas all OE lights are halogen all-round for the E36). also what I cannot tell about the ZKW and Bosch lights for the E36 is if they are plug and play with US market cars. also they have city lights or something like that?? if I am wrong about the low beam difference between ZKW and Bosch, and they are functionally identical, which is the one to have?

3. Hella HID angel-eye kit. This one looked pretty enticing. Pricey and not OE, but you get what you pay for with Hella. Angel eye rings circling around the low and high beam. low beam is a classic parabolic reflector setup (no circular inner glass lens in front of it), and high beam is a projector lens setup à la most HID setups today/ZKW (if I am indeed correct about the diff between ZKW and Bosch). there's a chrome one and a black one. I don't know if the outer covers are glass or plastic (hopefully glass). Last Hella question: was Hella ever the OE for any E36 headlights? What characteristics do these Hella OE headlights have and how do they perform (if they exist at all) compared to the US market, Bosch, and ZKW lights?

sorry for the long read and any help or info is appreciated by me and me on behalf of my friendly neighborhood E36 owner.

[bluptgm3]

Yes, glass lense projector Hella were early OE, and as I recall went NLA pretty early.

Most if not all Euro headlight require adapter harness (or end user wire splicing.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DeletedUser46879]

Yes, glass lense projector Hella were early OE, and as I recall went NLA pretty early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I see. Thanks for the info. Since they're NLA, we'll probably decide against them. Just wanted to clarify, these had glass outer covers, and a projector/ellipsoid setup (something more than just a simple parabolic reflector) for the low beam?

[bluptgm3]

Yes Hella’s have/had the projector/ellipsoid lenses under glass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[M3AN]

Just for clarity, whether or not Hella were an OE headlight supplier, their Celis angel eye lights were never standard on the e36. All "Euro" headlights, including the Hella Celis lights have glass lenses.

The ECS ones branded "European BMW" are genuine lights direct from the BMW parts bin - a very expensive way to buy headlights.

ECS also sell ZKW lights which are (Euro) OEM.

Finally, I think a lot of US people use Depo branded "Euro" lights and are happy with them, ECS also sells these (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-depo-par...1110plden~dep/) and they come with the required harness for US cars.

I'm not particularly recommending any brand of light or ECS for supply, just sharing what I know.

[DeletedUser46879]

Just for clarity, whether or not Hella were an OE headlight supplier, their Celis angel eye lights were never standard on the e36. All "Euro" headlights, including the Hella Celis lights have glass lenses.

The ECS ones branded "European BMW" are genuine lights direct from the BMW parts bin - a very expensive way to buy headlights.

ECS also sell ZKW lights which are (Euro) OEM.

Finally, I think a lot of US people use Depo branded "Euro" lights and are happy with them, ECS also sells these (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-depo-par...1110plden~dep/) and they come with the required harness for US cars.

I'm not particularly recommending any brand of light or ECS for supply, just sharing what I know.

hey thanks for the reply man. Great info! Much appreciated. Yeah I never meant to imply that the Hella angel eye versions were OE. We just considered them as an option since Hella makes a great product, and even though it wouldn’t look OE, it’d definitely be OE quality, and is probably the highest lighting output you can get on an E36 that is purely plug n play.

i also have no doubt that the ECS ones branded “European BMW” are top quality and original, but they’re a bit overpriced (like you said) for what they offer over the stock US ones. Just glass outer covers, but no ellipsoid lens. The zkw lights seem to be the best bet for him now, but I just wanted to wait and see if anyone chimes in about those vs Bosch

[M3AN]

There's no practical difference between the ZKW or Bosch units - I think the manufacturing of these has been outsourced anyway now. Read up on the Depo option, you may find them satisfactory.

[LuvMy328is]

I have the Euro Hellas with OE style Angel Eyes. Good beam pattern and light pool, nice HB and were sold in chrome or black housing. They us an H7 for both LB and HB and have a terrific cutoff, making them acceptable for "PnP" HIDs. I use OEM D2S capsules with an adapter ring to ensure proper alignment. You can buy the OEM plug to make your own adapters, it's the same as the MAF connector. Use REAL OEM to locate the part number. Here are some photos... Note: Angel Eyes have turned yellowish over time, the rings themselves.

OEMvAM.JPG

Hella.jpg

The Prolumen or Morimoto were the best aftermarket capsules I found.
Prolumen5k.jpg

[DeletedUser46879]

I have the Euro Hellas with OE style Angel Eyes. Good beam pattern and light pool, nice HB and were sold in chrome or black housing. They us an H7 for both LB and HB and have a terrific cutoff, making them acceptable for "PnP" HIDs. I use OEM D2S capsules with an adapter ring to ensure proper alignment. You can buy the OEM plug to make your own adapters, it's the same as the MAF connector. Use REAL OEM to locate the part number. Here are some photos... Note: Angel Eyes have turned yellowish over time, the rings themselves.

OEMvAM.JPG

Hella.jpg

The Prolumen or Morimoto were the best aftermarket capsules I found.
Prolumen5k.jpg

oh that's another good thing to know. so the Hella Angel eye lights aren't an HID kit on their own?

[MParallel]

OEM EU lights during E36 production are ZKW and Bosch.

The early models came with H1 Projectors.
Later models came with H7 open parabole reflectors.

People often confuse the projectors units for being the later ones, thanks to later technology xenon, that uses projectors.

Xenon was never offered and the early H1 projectors have nothing to do with xenon.

Stock for stock, the later H7 units give much better visibility.

US headlight use plastic lenses and HB3/4 bulbs.

[LuvMy328is]

IIRC Umnitza did sell a "kit" that was the Hella Euro Ellipsoid projectors (like what I have) and aftermarket HID "kit" pre-installed and it included OE "style", round plug adatpers, that mate to the MAF-like connectors.

eg.
Adapter.jpg

[bluptgm3]

OEM EU lights during E36 production are ZKW and Bosch.

Of course you mean OE (original equipment)? Correct?

I think Hella was in the mix as well and the rarest of the rare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MParallel]

Of course you mean OE (original equipment)? Correct?

I think Hella was in the mix as well and the rarest of the rare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. Bosch and ZKW are Original Equipment Manufacturers.

Hella, not during E36 production. The ETK also only lists Bosch/ZKW.

[DeletedUser46879]

OEM EU lights during E36 production are ZKW and Bosch.

The early models came with H1 Projectors.
Later models came with H7 open parabole reflectors.

People often confuse the projectors units for being the later ones, thanks to later technology xenon, that uses projectors.

Xenon was never offered and the early H1 projectors have nothing to do with xenon.

Stock for stock, the later H7 units give much better visibility.

US headlight use plastic lenses and HB3/4 bulbs.

that is interesting. so the light output is better with the reflector model than with the projector model?

[MParallel]

that is interesting. so the light output is better with the reflector model than with the projector model?

Yes, and by quite a bit. Logically as well, later tech. BMW would not downgrade the lights.

Both my E36’s came with H7 reflectors. 11 years ago I traded the ZKW H7’s of my 328i for ZKW H1 projectors, as retrofitting xenon was the thing to do. And you don’t want xenon bulbs in open reflectors.

But even with xenon, since these units are not designed for them, output was actually worse than my stock H7 lights.
I didn’t realize untill I bought my M3 5 years later, in the meantime getting used to the projector xenon’s.

Unless you do a proper xenon projector retrofit, I would never bother with the ancient H1 units. But people seem to have this thing for the looks of them.

I’m mainly a purist and my M3’s factory Bosch H7’s will stay untouched.

[dworthy]

Just to add, the Euro TI uses the exact same headlights as the U.S. version cars, but they come with glass lenses, not plastic. So on those lamps, you don't need any adaptor to use them.

Hella does sell Angel eyes, and H-1 projectors for a cost of around $400. I did have a set in my old 318is, and they were much better lighting than the stock reflector IMO.

[DeletedUser46879]

Yes, and by quite a bit. Logically as well, later tech. BMW would not downgrade the lights.

Both my E36’s came with H7 reflectors. 11 years ago I traded the ZKW H7’s of my 328i for ZKW H1 projectors, as retrofitting xenon was the thing to do. And you don’t want xenon bulbs in open reflectors.

But even with xenon, since these units are not designed for them, output was actually worse than my stock H7 lights.
I didn’t realize untill I bought my M3 5 years later, in the meantime getting used to the projector xenon’s.

Unless you do a proper xenon projector retrofit, I would never bother with the ancient H1 units. But people seem to have this thing for the looks of them.

I’m mainly a purist and my M3’s factory Bosch H7’s will stay untouched.

true enough, xenon bulbs in reflector housings is a bad idea (I think Mercedes is the only one who did a stock xenon setup in a reflector housing, which was on the w140 s class)

So would you say then that the “euro headlights”, as they’re shown on ecs tuning, even though expensive, are the best stock lighting option? I was a bit confused since ecs doesn’t say if it is H1 or H7 (though it is obvious that both low and high beam are parabolic reflectors, so I assume H7) https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...air/e36hdltkt/

my buddy says he’d pay for that if they’re worth it. The other thing we couldn’t tell is if they’re ZKW or Bosch or something else (but I assume it’d have to be ZKW or Bosch since it is OEM European BMW listed as the brand)

anyway, I’ll mention this here for anyone who wonders. Projectors, while a better-looking, and more expensive form of lighting, are NOT always superior in output (something I have experience with, and as evidenced by MParallel’s post). They do always have a good cutoff and a nicely focused, even beam pattern. The actual lighting output, ie how much light you throw onto the road, and how much visibility you have, depends on how well your projector lens is suited to your bulb, and how strong your bulb is. Assuming the two are ideal, then your projector setup will PROBABLY be superior to an equivalent reflector setup, both being equivalent halogen bulbs. From an objective standpoint, if you can design a reflector to throw as even and focused of a beam as a projector, it is actually the better way to go. While not always exhibiting a good pattern, and poorer beam cutoff, a reflector actually puts more light onto the road than a projector assuming an equal bulb. This is because only about 15% of the light gets “lost in translation” going around the reflector bowl, through the lens and onto the road. In basic terms, there is a lot less between the bulb and the road. For a projector light, their only superiority comes from better beam pattern, focus, and cutoff, but the truth is they are actually putting less light onto the road. about 40% gets “lost in translation” mainly due to the fact that the cutoff shield keeps a significant portion of light from ever even getting to the road

- - - Updated - - -

Just to add, the Euro TI uses the exact same headlights as the U.S. version cars, but they come with glass lenses, not plastic. So on those lamps, you don't need any adaptor to use them.

that was actually gonna be another one of my questions. Is there a difference in output between a euro reflector and a US reflector, assuming the cover was the same material for both (glass or plastic)?

[MParallel]

I’ve seen a few people order new ‘Bosch’ headlights, but they are now made by Automotive Lighting.

Which is a joint venture of Magneti Marelli and Robert Bosch

So they’re Bosch, but with “AL” on them.

[dworthy]

I don't think there is a difference in the reflector, as both use the same bulb the 9006/9007 IIRC. Of course the euro housing have a parking light and adjusters built into it as that was stock at the time.

[MParallel]

I don't think there is a difference in the reflector, as both use the same bulb the 9006/9007 IIRC. Of course the euro housing have a parking light and adjusters built into it as that was stock at the time.

They all have adjusters. Would be something if you could not adjust your headlight.

The only thing Euro is that these came stock with motorized adjusters. But this motor is an additional part you fit on the back of the unit.

They all have a manual adjuster.

[dworthy]

Thank-you for pointing that out to the rest of the Forum, Motorized.

[MParallel]

Thank-you for pointing that out to the rest of the Forum, Motorized.

For lack of a better word...?

[dworthy]

Exactly what it say.

[MParallel]

Exactly what it say.

I probably misunderstood and thought is was meant in a sarcastic way.

[dworthy]

Nope, even I miss stuff now and again, and for the sake of the forum it is good you caught it.