Car gets flooded over night

[tritschalex]

Ok car ran fine parked it and In the morning sounded as if no compression and flooded if I hold it to the floor for a bit and keep trying it eventually gets up and going but once it sits and gets cold does it again any ideas ?? Car say for a long time new fuel pump plugs gas fuel filter ect



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[DennisG01]

Ok car ran fine parked it and In the morning sounded as if no compression and flooded if I hold it to the floor for a bit and keep trying it eventually gets up and going but once it sits and gets cold does it again any ideas ?? Car say for a long time new fuel pump plugs gas fuel filter ect
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a fuel injected car can't get flooded, right? Especially not just sitting overnight.

Check fuel pressure at the rail with the key turned to "on" and then when cranking. If memory serves, you're looking for something like 45 or 50 PSI.

Also... please explain better... Your first sentence states car was parked overnight and then the problem happened. Yet, your last sentence states the car "sat" for a long time. I assume you meant "sat", not "say" and you just didn't spell check?

[demetk]

My guess would be fuel pressure bleed down through leaking injectors. If all that fuel gets dumped into the cylinders overnight it could get hard to start in the morning. Maybe do a fuel pressure bleed down test?

[DennisG01]

My guess would be fuel pressure bleed down through leaking injectors. If all that fuel gets dumped into the cylinders overnight it could get hard to start in the morning. Maybe do a fuel pressure bleed down test?

Hmmm. Playing a little devil's advocate here... let me know if I'm off base... IF the fuel injectors leaked fuel into the cylinders, wouldn't it make it harder to turn the engine over with all that liquid in the cylinders? He stated the engine turns over "like it has no compression".

If the injectors leaked, it might take a bit for the pump to "fill things back up", but it sounds like the OP is stating it's taking quite a while?

Just thinking outloud here!

[mattmar1]

one injector leaking down the rail pressure can happen, but all 6? im with dennis here. pressure leakdown, but possibly the fuel pump check valve. check your fuel pressure at the rail after turning key to pos 2, dont try to start it yet. yes it should be right around 50 psi. then turn the key off and reread it after 20 minutes. a little tough to understand some of your post, are you saying it has a new fuel pump? if so, what brand? what are you seeing/hearing that makes you think no compression? are you smelling raw gas from the exhaust that makes you feel its flooded?

[tritschalex]

Mine is doing the same sorta thing it ran a bit ruff when I put a new fuel pump from autozone car was sitting about two years and it ran ok then turned it off over night it sat I woke up and a weird no compression like start . After about ten try’s and holding her to the floor it fired up ran horrible got warn and no issue starting it warm only after a wile of sitting

[tritschalex]

Yes sorry brother a bit upset ok I bought the car two days ago was sitting for two years I drained the gas put a new pump and cleaned the lines out started a bit ruff but ran good when warm after the first night when I went to start it it did that weird starting issue

[tritschalex]

Ok I’ll try that I tested it wile on its 50 even but I didn’t check after a wile of being off that’s a great idea

[tritschalex]

Sorry if I sound a bit all over the place new to this forum stuff and bmws so bare with me please

[tritschalex]

I believe from what I’ve been reading that if this car doesn’t have the right oil in the cylinders it acts like it has no compression

[ross1]

Does it smoke(black) and run rough when it does start?
A weak fuel pump will allow the fuel pressure to bleed off back through the pump and then take a while to build pressure.
If unable to check fuel pressure at least pull the plugs after cranking briefly(not long enough to fire)and see if the plugs are wet.
EDIT; I see sitting a long time so very good chance injectors are fouled. A GOOD fuel system cleaner like Techron might clear it up after some miles. I'd try a double or triple dose and a good run on the highway.

[mattmar1]

Yes sorry brother a bit upset ok I bought the car two days ago was sitting for two years I drained the gas put a new pump and cleaned the lines out started a bit ruff but ran good when warm after the first night when I went to start it it did that weird starting issue

ok take a deep breath, calm down. please use punctuation (periods etc) your sentences run on and it make em difficult to understand. example this "sentence" copied from your post.
put a new pump and cleaned the lines out started a bit ruff but ran good when warm after the first night when I went to start it it did that weird starting issue
not able to comprehend what is trying to be said there. where would/should there be a period in this? dont know what a " weird no compression like start" means. if you think compression is an issue, measure it, dont guess.
we are trying help you, not complicate things for you. that the car sat for 2 years brings up a lot of possibilities on it own.
work with us, we'll work with you. theres lotsa folks on here who enjoy helping.
the fuel pump...you never stated the brand, just where you bought it.

[edjack]

He's got the fastest thumbs on this forum!

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Doesn’t mean squat if nobody can understand the gibberish. Jeezuz, no commas, periods,.... Not even a simple F’kin hello.

[fasteddie313]

If the fuel pressure is leaking down through an injector slowly then yes you could flood one cylinder even to the point of hydrolock and a bent rod but iis unlikely to flood your entire engine and certainly wouldn't act like low compression..

Even if your fuel rail leaks down to zero pressure it should not take more than a second for the FP to repressurize the fuel rail..



Hard to start cold? How is your coolant temp sensor?
What do you have for codes?

Or maybe you just have low compression..
Low compression, in a slight case, could make it very hard to start cold but easy to start warm, especially for a diesel..

[tritschalex]

Ok . Sorry for that guys ! Let’s start fresh lol , I’m Alex I bought this 2000 528i two days ago , put the new pump in I don’t have the brand right now the box is at my parents house . After the pump it started a bit ruff but ran ok after the warmed up , after a spin around the block I noticed a small leak in a radiator hose so I replaced it . Now that that was replaced it ran good again but a slight dip in rpm when Ac is on and when car was cold . Now I left it over night , when I went to start it it turned over like a car with no spark plugs and I almost died thought the motor blew but There was no way it ran good when I parked it . So I went on good old google and found Out hold the gas to the floor and try to start for about 10 to 15 seconds , so I tried this and about five times of that it fired up sputtering like a swamp donkey . I rev it a bit and it evened out and ran good again spin the block about two times and it was ok shifted a bit hard into all gears but ran ok . Now my buddy ran the codes and said they all went on cause of driving after sitting so long so we cleared everything and ran it again and only the maf showed up . This is about 30 min ago sorry for the delay . So he showed me that there’s two tanks and the gas mixed that was bad with the new gas and the fuel treatment I put so as of now I drained both tanks , cleaned them out and put new 93 in it and it is running ok again with the same up and down idle . I have not let it sit long enough to see if the weird cold start happens again , I will update you lovely people tomorrow morning any tips are greatly appreciated !! Sorry for not explaining correctly the first time I am a bit all over the place car has me a bit Frustrated


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[tritschalex]

No . No smoke at all and psi on fuel rail is 55 when started and stays at 50 when off . I stood there for about 45 min and still about 50 even

[Mike WW]

FI cars can flood, but it's not common. I've had it on both E12 and E28s, which are admittedly a much earlier systems. A bad fuel pressure regulator can flood it, as can leaky injectors. While I haven't seen any cases on E39s, less than optimum gas and driving patterns can cause buildup on injectors allowing leak down of fuel pressure and hard starting. And it was all 6 when it happened on my E28, 3 times with different injectors. Not nearly enough to hydrolock it, but enough to cause hard starting and the odor of gas out the tailpipe on cold starts. Hot starts, no problem, not enough leaked. Warm starts, not too bad, but you could tell. Cold starts were crank and crank and crank, then fire and run roughly for a while as the excess fuel burned off. I was pretty sure, but finally pulled the fuel rail and pressured it up to verify, and sure enough they all started leaking, first damp, then a slow drip.

Not saying it is your problem, or is even likely to be, just a possible cause. Check fuel pressure too, the O2 sensor will do significant correction warm, but cold it's open loop with no feedback.

[mattmar1]

ok, after draining all the fuel and replacing, im getting that youre saying the when its idling cold, the idle goes up and down. would you call it an idle dip sporadically that it recovers from(most of the time)? this is a common problem with the 528, leaking vanos seals. redoing the vanos usually fixes this.

[geargrinder]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a fuel injected car can't get flooded, right? Especially not just sitting overnight.

Indeed can. I think I posted recently on some weird cold weather restart floodings I have had happen twice.

On some FI DBW cars supposedly if you hold the throttle to the floor on startup it signals the ECU to cut fuel to clear a 'flooded' situation but I can tell you now that it does NOT work on DBW BMW's.. Luckily OP's car is not full-DBW so maybe thats why it worked for him.

My solution was pull the fuel pump fuse(s), car started immediately, burned off the flooding gas, then stalled, put fuses back in, ran great.

The other E39 flooding thing to be aware of is that M54's can get borewashed if for some reason they don't fire and get flooded. Then they will not start until the cylinders have some oil restored to them, typically zero compression. Usually not an M52 problem though, as the M54 got these "low tension rings" that supposedly are the issue... however its possible this car borewashed a little bit and had no compression.

Ok . Sorry for that guys ! Let’s start fresh lol , I’m Alex I bought this 2000 528i two days ago , put the new pump in I don’t have the brand right now the box is at my parents house . After the pump it started a bit ruff but ran ok after the warmed up , after a spin around the block I noticed a small leak in a radiator hose so I replaced it . Now that that was replaced it ran good again but a slight dip in rpm when Ac is on and when car was cold . Now I left it over night , when I went to start it it turned over like a car with no spark plugs and I almost died thought the motor blew but There was no way it ran good when I parked it . So I went on good old google and found Out hold the gas to the floor and try to start for about 10 to 15 seconds , so I tried this and about five times of that it fired up sputtering like a swamp donkey . I rev it a bit and it evened out and ran good again spin the block about two times and it was ok shifted a bit hard into all gears but ran ok . Now my buddy ran the codes and said they all went on cause of driving after sitting so long so we cleared everything and ran it again and only the maf showed up . This is about 30 min ago sorry for the delay . So he showed me that there’s two tanks and the gas mixed that was bad with the new gas and the fuel treatment I put so as of now I drained both tanks , cleaned them out and put new 93 in it and it is running ok again with the same up and down idle . I have not let it sit long enough to see if the weird cold start happens again , I will update you lovely people tomorrow morning any tips are greatly appreciated !! Sorry for not explaining correctly the first time I am a bit all over the place car has me a bit Frustrated

Yeah, not 2 tanks really but a 'saddle tank' with 2 halves.

The poor idle stuff is pretty "normal" for a neglected car. Now you have to just go checking/testing plugs and vacuum leaks and coils and vacuum leaks and MAF and vacuum leaks and O2s and maybe VANOS and DISA and also vacuum leaks until its all either fixed or confirmed good

[ross1]

I am hearing two problems now. Correct me if wrong.
surging idle, almost stalling and some hard shifting.
The idle could be vacuum leaks or a VANOS issue, among other things. The VANOS, in my experience, manifests itself with a severe stumble on an otherwise fine idling engine, usually recovers and repeats.
The MAF related codes and hard shifting could be related. The trans computer communicates with the engine one. A common symptom of a failed MAF is hard and late shifts.
Your fuel pressure sounds fine. Seems the "flooding" issue is no more?
Some time on the road will probably do this car wonders. Like I said before give it a big dose of Techron and blow the cobwebs out of this thing.

[tritschalex]

FI cars can flood, but it's not common. I've had it on both E12 and E28s, which are admittedly a much earlier systems. A bad fuel pressure regulator can flood it, as can leaky injectors. While I haven't seen any cases on E39s, less than optimum gas and driving patterns can cause buildup on injectors allowing leak down of fuel pressure and hard starting. And it was all 6 when it happened on my E28, 3 times with different injectors. Not nearly enough to hydrolock it, but enough to cause hard starting and the odor of gas out the tailpipe on cold starts. Hot starts, no problem, not enough leaked. Warm starts, not too bad, but you could tell. Cold starts were crank and crank and crank, then fire and run roughly for a while as the excess fuel burned off. I was pretty sure, but finally pulled the fuel rail and pressured it up to verify, and sure enough they all started leaking, first damp, then a slow drip.

Not saying it is your problem, or is even likely to be, just a possible cause. Check fuel pressure too, the O2 sensor will do significant correction warm, but cold it's open loop with no feedback.

Ok , I just got in the car now I cleaned the tanks last night put fresh gas and ran it for a bit seemed fine , came back today and still the crazy starting issue but yes I smell gas out the tail pipes as you describe! The car doesn’t idle weird once it’s warm thought I would add that in there only if the ac is on wile it’s warm it will idle up and down . Now I haven’t got to the nearest store to pick up a maf sensor and boot it hooks too so I can’t drive it just yett and let you guys know if it keeps going limp after 30 mph


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[tritschalex]

ok, after draining all the fuel and replacing, im getting that youre saying the when its idling cold, the idle goes up and down. would you call it an idle dip sporadically that it recovers from(most of the time)? this is a common problem with the 528, leaking vanos seals. redoing the vanos usually fixes this.

Ok awesome not to concerned on the idle issue as of now I would like for it to just be able to drive to my friends shop to swap all the serious parts out , what’s killing me is the cold start flooding issue but I believe they got me on the right track with the leaking fuel injectors, sounds like everything fits the issue


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[tritschalex]

Indeed can. I think I posted recently on some weird cold weather restart floodings I have had happen twice.

On some FI DBW cars supposedly if you hold the throttle to the floor on startup it signals the ECU to cut fuel to clear a 'flooded' situation but I can tell you now that it does NOT work on DBW BMW's.. Luckily OP's car is not full-DBW so maybe thats why it worked for him.

My solution was pull the fuel pump fuse(s), car started immediately, burned off the flooding gas, then stalled, put fuses back in, ran great.

The other E39 flooding thing to be aware of is that M54's can get borewashed if for some reason they don't fire and get flooded. Then they will not start until the cylinders have some oil restored to them, typically zero compression. Usually not an M52 problem though, as the M54 got these "low tension rings" that supposedly are the issue... however its possible this car borewashed a little bit and had no compression.



Yeah, not 2 tanks really but a 'saddle tank' with 2 halves.

The poor idle stuff is pretty "normal" for a neglected car. Now you have to just go checking/testing plugs and vacuum leaks and coils and vacuum leaks and MAF and vacuum leaks and O2s and maybe VANOS and DISA and also vacuum leaks until its all either fixed or confirmed good

Ok so what’s a m54? is that what I have ? And how do I stop this borewash issue ?


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[mattmar1]

m54 is the 525/530 engine, 2001 and up. you have one of the m52 engines,yours being a 528, dunno which as you have no year of your car posted. are you getting a smell of raw gas from the exhaust when first cranking in the morn? this would be an indication of flooding. that your fuel pressure held for 45 mins at 50 psi with the engine off kinda tells that youre not bleeding fuel in to the cylinders, or anywhere else. have you access to a compression tester to prove/disprove the compression theory? borewash would be raw gas washing oil off the inner wall of the cylinders, lessening the oil coating, reducing compression by not allowing the piston rings to seal well to the unoiled cylinder walls. but you dont know this is happening in your car.