Turner Stage 2 with M50 mainfold...

[Gene V]

Thinking about doing the Turner Stage 2 Performance Package coupled with an M50 intake manifold. Anyone here done this? I think this combo would go well with my recently install 3.46 diff. Thoughts?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1...mance-package/

[JitteryJoe]

Just be careful if these are the rebuilt 24 lbs. injectors (I think they are). I installed these injectors and sucked the end caps off 4 of them into the intake. I bought new more secure end caps from Mr Injector.

[Gene V]

Just be careful if these are the rebuilt 24 lbs. injectors (I think they are). I installed these injectors and sucked the end caps off 4 of them into the intake. I bought new more secure end caps from Mr Injector.

Roger that...

[pbonsalb]

I’d probably DIY a kit if you are up to it.

[DrftKingIII]

I've had these parts sitting in my garage for almost a year now, still haven't installed them aside from the intake.

Everything I've read seems to be nothing but positive. The Conforti tune is a pretty safe tune, so it won't get you as much horsepower as some other tuners out there.

[TostitoBandito]

Yeah that tune will work fine with the M50 manifold, though it doesn't specifically account for it. The lowest level Conforti/Shark tune that has the M50 manifold in scope is the stage 3+ which requires cams. I know Epic and other tuners let you customize every item in the tune instead of being stuck into fixed stages, and support all the same mods (injectors, MAF, cams, etc...). The Conforti tune is the easiest plug and play solution though due to the convenience of the injector.

I have a stage 1 Conforti tune on my car at the moment, but will likely go with Epic when I decide to do injectors/MAF/cams and the M50 manifold I've had sitting around for years. I guess I could put in the M50 manifold now, but I'm lazy. I also have a 3.46 diff in my M3 and it's great. Love the extra zip through the gears, and it happens to make the 7000rpm redline points line up at nice even numbers from gears 2-5 (60, 90, 120, 150 mph).

[Positiveions]

I installed this kit on my E36. Haven’t tested it in real world due to on going maintenance and upgrades and fixing a parasitic draw. One thing to note, don’t follow Turnermotorsports’ DIY installation guide. I used Eurosport’s instructionhttp://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/pdfs/3.2LCSManifoldandIntakeFilterInstallation.pdf. It is detailed and to the point. I think it’s the same kit. Be sure to read ahead cause some instruction of, for instance, the manifold brackets install are found later.
One advise I have, upgrades all of those coolant hoses in the very back and underneath the intake manifold. Be ready to replace vacuum hoses. This is the time to replace the engine mounts. Best of luck.

[JitteryJoe]

Yeah, in case no one has mentioned, installing the M50 manifold is a PITA job. I left the forward support bracket off because it would have to be modified to fit (some people don't bother with either bracket). You may find other things don't quite fit where they used to (brackets, hoses). The Eurosport instructions mentioned above are pretty good. I have a few pictures in my build journal (http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showpost.php?p=1067795248&postcount=124). Lots of others threads if you search.

[Gene V]

I just realized that I may have a problem with the Stage 2 software install in that I have the SI stage 1 tune and no way to return it to stock...the guy I purchased the car from misplaced the original Shark Injector so I'm stuck with that tune.

[pbonsalb]

Buy a tune from another tuner and do a remote flash or buy an EWS delete ECU with tune or send your ECU to the tuner.

[Gene V]

Buy a tune from another tuner and do a remote flash or buy an EWS delete ECU with tune or send your ECU to the tuner.

okay, I'll look into those options...

[pbonsalb]

With a little more power these cars are entertaining. I have been saying that every year for 14 years. Am at about 700 rwhp now. With the shorter diff, it’s nice to extend the rpm range with the M50 manifold and cams and a tune to match. The shorter diff also helps offset the low rpm torque loss from the larger runner manifold. I went 3.23 to 3.38 to 3.64. The 3.64 was a bit much with the 1:1 5th gear on the highway but was great everywhere else. 7200 rpm is a good limit if the motor is good.

[Carpy2]

Like many, I did the m50 manifold swap with Eric's kit, then did a remote flash with Epic Motorsport's remote flasher/tuner. This is just one way, and there are tons of perfectly great tuning options out there. I like the remote tuner/flasher that many shops offer because most of them double as a code reader/eraser, and it takes no more than 2 minutes to reflash your ECU with whatever tune they supplied you. Do note, most if not all the tuners out there are using Windows based applications, so if you want to remote tune with their device, make sure you have access to a machine running the right OS. Like Tostito mentioned, custom tuning through someone like Epic is nice because you can take account for all your parts, like if you have a bbtb, or exhaust/intake etc., and the m50 manifold specifically.

When I initially did the swap, I reinstalled both the front and rear supporting manifold brackets. I've removed the manifold a few times (unrelated to the swap) and since then I've decided to just go without both brackets. I don't think they're necessary as some above have mentioned, and it frees up a bit of space under the manifold for your hands to slip in there.

When I asked a few years ago about the m50 manifold swap, everyone said it was a huge PITA (it's not, not a pain but...) When I asked about the difficulty in changing my head gasket, someone told me it should be no issue because I've already done the m50 manifold which is harder than doing a HG job. I personally completely disagree with this. The m50 manifold swap is very straight forward (I can only attest to Eric's well written directions), and I wouldn't be scared of it at all. It's a little unfair of a comparison though because there's so much more involved with a HG job, so take that with a grain of salt (as I did!). I'm not here to sell it, but I come across this often, people mentioning compatibility/fitment issues... -- I had 0 compatibility issues with Eric's kit. Everything fits, and you only need to modify part of the bracket and two tabs on the fuel rail (a hand saw can accomplish all the modification). If someone had compatibility issues with the m50 swap, I can only attribute that to the kit they used.

One other thing that comes to mind is I have heard some skepticism with tapping the hole for re-positioning your IAT (is it the IAT? I can't remember) sensor into the main body of the manifold since you can only really make about 2-3 full threads on the sensor itself. Just a tiny bit of loctite or a little thread sealer and I've had no issues with it for over 5 years (like most people it seems). It's stuck in there really well!

edit: i also went from a 3.23 to a 3.38 rear end (I'm NA), and don't quite remember what it was like with the 3.23 but I'm really digging the 3.38, and can see how a 3.46 would be sooooooooooo awesome!

[blckstrm]

Thinking about doing the Turner Stage 2 Performance Package coupled with an M50 intake manifold. Anyone here done this? I think this combo would go well with my recently install 3.46 diff. Thoughts?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1...mance-package/

I've been looking at doing the same thing, but you can get almost everything for dramatically less if you're willing to put it all together yourself.

Turner seems to have either modified what each stage of the chip does, or at least modified their description over the years.

I installed an M50 intake years ago with somebody's vacuum plumbing kit (maybe Bimmerworld? I really don't remember). My 3.38 came either shortly before or shortly after. I ran the car for a week with stock software before doing the Conforti stage 1 tune, which filled the loss of torque from the M50 manifold and let it run even stronger up top. Back then Turner billed the stage 1 tune as the solution for the torque loss of the M50 manifold, though I see they now don't mention it at all (or on the Stage 2 you're looking at for that matter).

The thing stopping me is the charge for the software upgrade.

I'd really prefer to just do it once, which means adding cams and headers on top of the parts in the stage 2 kit (24lb injectors and 3.5" MAF). It also means a full weekend (at least) vs a Saturday morning.

I've come close the last month or two, but I think I've decided to wait and do it all in one shot.

[Gene V]

I installed an M50 intake years ago with somebody's vacuum plumbing kit (maybe Bimmerworld? I really don't remember). My 3.38 came either shortly before or shortly after. I ran the car for a week with stock software before doing the Conforti stage 1 tune, which filled the loss of torque from the M50 manifold and let it run even stronger up top. Back then Turner billed the stage 1 tune as the solution for the torque loss of the M50 manifold, though I see they now don't mention it at all (or on the Stage 2 you're looking at for that matter).

Stage 3 adds cams with software upgrade...Stage 3+ adds software for customer provided M50 manifold...

[rohner88]

U guys that have done this by sourcing parts and software separately or DIY, can u guys break down which parts I can do for cheaper? I’ve read some have done this mod using cheaper parts but get similar gains. For example, wouldn’t you gain the same hp using racing dynamics air intake kit as supposed to afe intake? Any help or advice would greatly be appreciated

[jamrobin]

I just realized that I may have a problem with the Stage 2 software install in that I have the SI stage 1 tune and no way to return it to stock...the guy I purchased the car from misplaced the original Shark Injector so I'm stuck with that tune.

I had EXACTLY the same problem. I refreshed my suspension and cooling, lowered the car and did the standard starting mod of cai and catback and got a shop to put a tune on it.

I drove it like that for a couple of years before the bug bit me again and I ordered the Turner Stage 2...oops! Couldn't flash the tune because mine wasn't stock! Ran like hell because the bigger porsche maf with the adapter confused the ecu!

I connected the original MAF and just dropped it in the engine bay temporarily, called the BMW dealership and they (a week later grrr) flashed it back to stock for me... I stayed with them for the whole thing and I have to say I was surprised by the antique equipment they had to pull out to do it... The flash took almost 45 minutes.

They let me keep it connected to their charger while I flashed the Turner Stage 2 and plug the MAF adapter back in. (much faster than the restore!)

Car ran great and it burbled a little on downshift... I drove it that way for a couple more years then added all the "stuff" that would be in the Turner stage 4+ (including an M50 manifold) plus some cheap shorty headers, and a Dinan BBTB and had a shop flash an AA tune for me... didn't really like the tune so I brought it back and apparently they had AA tweak it a bit to accommodate the BBTB and it has been great.

(lots of other stuff modded over the years too but the above is directly related to your issues)

Hope this info helps.

[Gene V]

Made contact with Turner the other day and they stated that you can upgrade from stage 1 to stage 2 without going back to stock...in other words Turner software can write over Tuner software.

[jamrobin]

^ I would verify that if I were you!
I spent a lot of time with them on the phone a couple of years ago.
It says right in the shark manual that you MUST revert back to the stock ecu flash before attempting to flash the new software.
I spent quite a while talking to them about jumping from 2 to 4 and they said that was impossible too... I had to "restore" to stock, send them my shark, they would put a new file on it and send it back... Total of about 15 days and a cost of shipping to them plus the $360ish for the new software.

That helped push me over the edge and get a local shop to do a flash of AA. (which AA was happy to customize for my BBTB, Turner couldn't... The flash is what it is. Oh the Turner also can't code out the SAP removal either... AA did, which gave me more space for headers &#128512

[NeilM]

When I initially did the swap, I reinstalled both the front and rear supporting manifold brackets. I've removed the manifold a few times (unrelated to the swap) and since then I've decided to just go without both brackets. I don't think they're necessary as some above have mentioned, and it frees up a bit of space under the manifold for your hands to slip in there.

When I did mine back in 2003 I found it difficult to get both manifold support brackets back in place, so I just used one. But that kept nagging at my OCD side, so some while later I took the time to make the other one fit too. Don't recall the details now, but a little minor bending and fettling may have been called for.

I don't think BMW took the trouble to design and tool up those supports just because the engineers were bored that day. The intake carries a fair amount of weight that's cantilevered out from the mounting flanges at the head.

Neil

[Gene V]

^ I would verify that if I were you!
It says right in the shark manual that you MUST revert back to the stock ecu flash before attempting to flash the new software. ��)

Roger that, will verify before I do anything...right now I happy with the 3.46 diff mod and am not in a hurry to do anything else other than maintain the car...

[pbonsalb]

When I did mine back in 2003 I found it difficult to get both manifold support brackets back in place, so I just used one. But that kept nagging at my OCD side, so some while later I took the time to make the other one fit too. Don't recall the details now, but a little minor bending and fettling may have been called for.

I don't think BMW took the trouble to design and tool up those supports just because the engineers were bored that day. The intake carries a fair amount of weight that's cantilevered out from the mounting flanges at the head.

Neil

There are a bunch of people with turbos that left both supports off. I put one back. Years later I customized the other and added it back. Certainly use them if you can. Don’t lean on the end of the intake with your full weight if you cannot. Those plastic M50 intakes are really strong.

[blckstrm]

There are a bunch of people with turbos that left both supports off. I put one back. Years later I customized the other and added it back. Certainly use them if you can. Don’t lean on the end of the intake with your full weight if you cannot. Those plastic M50 intakes are really strong.

Interesting - I still have my brackets somewhere, but then again, everything is wedged against the shock tower, so I'm sure that's alleviating some of the weight it's carrying. And yeah, that thing is pretty beefy in any case.

You guys have got me window shopping again ... maybe a little more than window shopping. The Turner kits are all backordered because the MAFs are all backordered. And of everything they sell, the MAF is the best deal - especially if you get it with the wiring harness adapter. You can source everything else somewhere else for less, but the MAF + harness is the best deal I've found.

It kind of bothers me that they've changed the mods supported by their SW over time. And what's the deal with the M50 being the LAST thing they add - it's the first thing most of us do to the car.

You can upgrade cheaper than buying one fresh, but I'm not sure it's worth jumping through their hoops and dealing with the prepackaged nature of the thing. Maybe it's time to look at AA...

[JitteryJoe]

There are a bunch of people with turbos that left both supports off. I put one back. Years later I customized the other and added it back. Certainly use them if you can. Don’t lean on the end of the intake with your full weight if you cannot. Those plastic M50 intakes are really strong.

Yeah, I used only one support bracket. The other one required too much modification to mess around with. Ditto on the "don't lean on the manifold if you leave off the brackets". It is a natural place to put your arm when reaching in.

[GVR]

Has anyone tried to pass a California smog inspection with a reflashed ecu? The fear of not passing is the only thing holding me back from a reflash.