Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Added Meth/H2O – Lost HP

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    782
    My Cars
    '95 330ti

    Added Meth/H2O – Lost HP

    I am losing 17 hp when using methanol/H2O injection.
    I wasn’t expecting an increase – I just wanted something to cool the intake when I was on track.
    Shade temps will be in the mid-90’s half the times I’m doing HPDE.

    Any suggestions?


    355 hp/ 278 torque without meth
    338 hp/ 283 torque with

    VF350 supercharger w/ 2.62 pulley (11 psi) and intercooler
    TRM software
    NGK R5671A-7/4091 plugs, preset gap of .030”

    Snow 210 stage 2, set on 4 psi/max 10 psi
    (#4) 225 ml/min nozzle
    Peak 0 degree washer fluid + two bottles of Heat (30% meth)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Bill_Yates_M3_Supercharger_and_meth.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Minnesota eh?
    Posts
    6,155
    My Cars
    86 325es
    It looks like its breaking up at 5700 on both pulls. Try putting the plug gap down to like .022"


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    782
    My Cars
    '95 330ti
    normally gap at .025, but put fresh plugs in the night before and forgot in the rush.

    Any chance the .5 increase in air/fuel hurt?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Minnesota eh?
    Posts
    6,155
    My Cars
    86 325es
    The AFR will bring it down a bit to some extent, but it should be pretty much a wash as the IAT should be better with the small meth shot. I just think something looks hinky in both those curves. Its nice and smooth and linear until that point and then both of them start dancing.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,042
    My Cars
    97' m52 turbo
    Did you tune after you added meth in?

    Some people run to as a safety measure only, others use it too advance timing

    I use it as a safety measure

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    782
    My Cars
    '95 330ti
    Stock fuel tune from TRM.
    It's to keep me from filling up with $9/gallon 100 octane when ever I go to the track.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    8,162
    My Cars
    '97 M3
    You can add less meth to the water if you don’t want the AFR to come down as much. Fix your gaps.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    782
    My Cars
    '95 330ti
    Cleaned & gapped sparks down to .022.
    Only 30 miles and 4 dyno pulls on these.
    I assume the white frosting is from the water/meth:

    SPARKS.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    just for reference, here is my normally aspirated baseline:

    Bill Yates M3.jpg

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    northern michigan
    Posts
    222
    My Cars
    95 M3 - 06 X5 3.0
    Water injection will clean the carbon out of your engine like you see from a slightly blown head gasket..
    Super steam clean including your plugs..

    From what I recall spraying water will lose you a little bit of HP on the same tune but makes the same tune very safe, and lets you make overall more power by allowing you to run higher boost or more aggressive timing where previously you would have been detonation limited.

    I have been contemplating doing a pre-compressor water injection setup which also has some interesting beneficial effects on the efficiency of a compressor wheel.
    E36 M3 S50 - E53 X5 M54 - 1980 Porsche 931 - 2001 Impreza RS25

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    78
    My Cars
    85 325e M52t - 06 330i
    Why is it so lean? You would think once it starts seeing boost the AFR would be below 13.5.

    It looks like an N/A fuel curve. I'm wondering if the ECU is pulling timing for detonation. Did you datalog the runs?

    The torque dip at 4200 doesn't seem like fueling. But the one at 5700 could be ignition due seeing as how it went lean for a few hundred rpm. Did you hear it hesitate?

    If you're not logging Renovelo Byteshooter free can show live data, you could see if there is a drop in ignition timing at those RPMS which would indicate a learnt knock value. The paid version can datalog the MS43.

    Ideally you would back to back runs and see if you see a consistent drop in torque, or its an anomaly.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    782
    My Cars
    '95 330ti
    I'm OBD1. How do I datalog without adding a whole system?

    I just looked at video and revs were smooth.

    Intercooler on this car slows boost response - boost doesn't register until 4000 rpm, 3psi at 5000 rpm. Moves quickly to 11 by 7000.
    I do not like using Snow's digital pressure gauge - changes are too abrupt.
    Last edited by M5Yates; 02-19-2019 at 10:17 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    782
    My Cars
    '95 330ti

    (ignore the air/fuel gauge)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Lowcountry
    Posts
    445
    My Cars
    1995 s52 M3
    How are your lap times? The meth kit would give you more consistent times and prevent heat soak.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    782
    My Cars
    '95 330ti
    Quote Originally Posted by reno5658 View Post
    How are your lap times? The meth kit would give you more consistent times and prevent heat soak.
    I just installed it a few weeks ago. First track day is coming in 3 weeks. COTA has lots of full throttle - high boost sections, so it will get lots of use.

Similar Threads

  1. Air filter replacement... lost HP?
    By eibowow in forum 1983 - 1991 (E30)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-08-2006, 03:15 PM
  2. Regained lost HP
    By martialartsblac in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-10-2006, 02:10 PM
  3. How much HP is lost at high mileage?
    By Beamin' in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-06-2004, 04:27 PM
  4. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-30-2003, 02:28 AM
  5. My new brakes just added 12 hp!
    By T///MW in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-14-2001, 09:38 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •