m62tu issues (Thinking the guides failed)

[JimLev]

It's not the solenoid, that would be a different code.
Is the chain TIGHT on the drivers side?
Did you keep the cam lock blocks from moving when you tightened the cam center bolts?
Lastly, did you turn the engine over by hand 2-3 times and then recheck the trigger wheels?

[zarboz]

It's not the solenoid, that would be a different code.
Is the chain TIGHT on the drivers side?
Did you keep the cam lock blocks from moving when you tightened the cam center bolts?
Lastly, did you turn the engine over by hand 2-3 times and then recheck the trigger wheels?

Yes cam lock blocks were tight, Hand cranked engine over 2-3 times and rechecked the trigger wheel 3 separate times just to be 10000% sure


I looked at the time stamps on pictures on my phone / texts I sent and the idle time was closer to 45-50 minutes before the p0021 code threw and it was just idle time. Turned motor over to let it sit and run for a while after finishing the job to make sure everything sounded / looked OK and inspect for leaks

I figure if I am going to retime it I might as well replace the solenoids too just to rule that out the other thing I was worried about was that the upper timing case cover didn't get seated down properly and the CPS lost its read of the vanos.

The car idled fine and rev'd fine while i let it sit for the 45~~~ ish minutes but I didn't want to put the motor under load without checking EVERYTHING

[geargrinder]

Hey Bryan - Man you had zero guides left in that puppy! Looks like a clean job tho'...

Yes cam lock blocks were tight, Hand cranked engine over 2-3 times and rechecked the trigger wheel 3 separate times just to be 10000% sure

That for sure is the first suggestion... In all those pix you have no manual tensioner installed. Did you have the manual tensioner on the motor and turned up good and tight? Did you re-tighten as you turned it through each successive 720? I almost always get a little more slack out if I snug that guy down as I do (hoepfully: helper does) the turn through.

idle time was closer to 45-50 minutes before the p0021 code threw and it was just idle time.

If it ran that long before deciding there was an issue, indeed its probably a minor shutter wheel tweak you need....

I figure if I am going to retime it I might as well replace the solenoids too

As Jim says - if solenoids were bad you'd have different codes typically.

Besides, solenoids / advance aren't active until higher up in RPM range so if code is throwing then you have a static timing issue.

I used to say the solenoids are silly to replace in advance because they dont' seem to go bad, and if they do they generally throw a code and give plenty of warning... I mostly would stick to that except for having these oil-leakers show up more often these days as the engines are aging further. If there is any sign of oil on the connector you for sure want to replace them even if there are no codes as that could put oil into the DME eventually... But otherwise its extremely doubtful that there's anything wrong with yours.

other thing I was worried about was that the upper timing case cover didn't get seated down properly

I'm less and less inclined to think the upper timing covers matter that much. Its pretty easy to see if the top case line is flat or not, and the true degree-reading amount that would put the sensor out by seems too inconsequential. I suspect guys who blame / the UTC more often than not actually had a wee tiny mis-time that needs tweaking.

It's too bad you used those old fashioned tools instead of the better G.A.S. set because I think the GAS is way better for precision for the shutter wheel (and they rent 'em and guys who have bought the sent rent 'em etc. etc. so its easy to get your hands on them cheap enough...) But. Water under the bridge.

But... for something you can try for a quick-fix... Have a look at 'kouks' long recent thread on his cam position problems and how he used the UTC alignment ports with a light to make a tweak and rid himself of the dreaded P-code. I'd still make a tool for those holes myself but his 'optical' trick was clever.

[zarboz]

Hey Bryan - Man you had zero guides left in that puppy! Looks like a clean job tho'...



That for sure is the first suggestion... In all those pix you have no manual tensioner installed. Did you have the manual tensioner on the motor and turned up good and tight? Did you re-tighten as you turned it through each successive 720? I almost always get a little more slack out if I snug that guy down as I do (hoepfully: helper does) the turn through.



If it ran that long before deciding there was an issue, indeed its probably a minor shutter wheel tweak you need....



As Jim says - if solenoids were bad you'd have different codes typically.

Besides, solenoids / advance aren't active until higher up in RPM range so if code is throwing then you have a static timing issue.

I used to say the solenoids are silly to replace in advance because they dont' seem to go bad, and if they do they generally throw a code and give plenty of warning... I mostly would stick to that except for having these oil-leakers show up more often these days as the engines are aging further. If there is any sign of oil on the connector you for sure want to replace them even if there are no codes as that could put oil into the DME eventually... But otherwise its extremely doubtful that there's anything wrong with yours.



I'm less and less inclined to think the upper timing covers matter that much. Its pretty easy to see if the top case line is flat or not, and the true degree-reading amount that would put the sensor out by seems too inconsequential. I suspect guys who blame / the UTC more often than not actually had a wee tiny mis-time that needs tweaking.

It's too bad you used those old fashioned tools instead of the better G.A.S. set because I think the GAS is way better for precision for the shutter wheel (and they rent 'em and guys who have bought the sent rent 'em etc. etc. so its easy to get your hands on them cheap enough...) But. Water under the bridge.

But... for something you can try for a quick-fix... Have a look at 'kouks' long recent thread on his cam position problems and how he used the UTC alignment ports with a light to make a tweak and rid himself of the dreaded P-code. I'd still make a tool for those holes myself but his 'optical' trick was clever.

I had been reading his thread late last night but I was not 100% conscious when taking in the information so I couldn't mentally visualize at the time I believe you are referring to this:

FIXED!

Did what GG recommended above. Used my Baum timing tools to make sure the cams were in place, and a strong LED flashlight down the lineup hole to make sure the trigger wheel was in the right place. I tried an allen fitting but there was too much play. Light does not bend and I was certain the lineup hole was in the correct position. After a day of driving, no more P0343 or other codes yet.

You cannot use a threaded rod to screw into the line up hole all the way to the trigger wheel. At the end of the threads there is a lip that will not allow to continue to screw through. So you have to choose a drill bit or something that has a narrower diameter than the threads. That allows play. I used an allen fitting to get close and then light to get rid of the play.

Thanks for all the help all along gents, it was a stupid mistake all along, but I learned plenty, including the value of a scope.

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I THINK you are talking about this bolt/hole in order to gain some alignment on the cog?

I might be able to try this later this week and see if I can get her up and going

I did have the locking block on I just didnt happen to snap any pics during that particular portion of the repair job. The only reason I mention replacing that solenoid is due to the fact that it was filled with plastic debris and seemed just a lot dirtier than the other solenoid upon removal

Do you know anyone in CO who has that GAS set who would be willing to rent them to me or let me borrow them for a day in order to ensure my timing is accurately done.

I think something might have slipped though like you said. It ran for 45~~ minutes before deciding it wanted to bitch.


Hoping I can get this done by the end of the week shes my daily and been sitting or 4+ weeks now :\

[zarboz]

So, Took her apart on the top to check the variable timing cogs.....

they lined up 100% so I put it back together and fired her up

p0021 still


Maybe its from the slack in the chain when you place the tensioner block against it... It's starting to warm up outside and the car is 64 miles away still so maybe I can take 1 last crack at timing it