Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41

Thread: Experiment: E65 fan and clutch in E38

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441

    Experiment: E65 fan and clutch in E38

    TLDR: tried the E65 fan and clutch in my E38 750iL, it ended up being a struggle and we will see if it was worth it for me (M73N) but it could be easier for an M62/62TU.

    We all know the fan and viscous clutch combination in our vehicles are liable to seize, explode, and let loose an avalanche of destruction. It has been proposed that the E65 fan and clutch are a direct swap and provide better reliability and less chance of catastrophic failure. I decided to see if it was true.

    Testee: 2001 750iL, M73N
    Parts needed:
    • 17417504732 Fan QTY 1
    • 07119904125 Hexagon screw w/ coupling QTY 4
    • 17417505109 Fan coupling QTY 1

    Reaoloem: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...24#17417505109

    The parts are nice compared to ours. The fan is supposed to move more air and with the ring give more stability (less chance of explosions).

    The viscous clutch is beefier and slightly taller. That is okay as the fan mounts on the back vice the front.


    The clutch also fits nicely in the correct location.

    Combined they are nearly the same size

    That being said there are some differences that make it a pain with the M73N.
    The first is (and the astute will have seen it in the parts list) are the 4 hex screws that (I assume) are slightly shorter than ours. A washer under ours and golden.

    Not sure, long term, I want to rely on that but for testing purposes it should be fine.

    The second: With the ring the fan won’t go into the area without pulling the shroud up and into weird positions. The original (sans ring) allows just enough wiggle room that you can slide it out without removing anything else. Not so with the ring. Although draining the coolant and completely pulling it would work, I don’t want to go there every time. So wiggled and worked it and it does fit.


    Now I will need to see if there are any differences in operation. Will give it a few days and report back.


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1
    Last edited by TheAngryBear; 02-17-2019 at 12:24 AM.

  2. #2
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Cool. I'd put a drop of loctite on those hex bolts and call it good. That clutch IS a lot beefier. Nice comparo pix.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    60
    My Cars
    1999 740iL
    I like it! I assume the main nut that attaches the clutch to the water pump is the same size/thread pitch/direction. Also, about the 4 attaching screws, is the issue that you did not know you needed them, so didn't get them?

    If it moves more air, I will definitely go this route on my next cooling system revamp. Stop and go traffic in the Texas summer can be brutal!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    6
    My Cars
    2001 BMW 740i
    Subscribed... great info and curious to see updates!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441
    Quote Originally Posted by gusdog View Post
    I like it! I assume the main nut that attaches the clutch to the water pump is the same size/thread pitch/direction. Also, about the 4 attaching screws, is the issue that you did not know you needed them, so didn't get them?

    If it moves more air, I will definitely go this route on my next cooling system revamp. Stop and go traffic in the Texas summer can be brutal!
    The main nut is the same pitch, size etc. with the 32 wrench. As for the hexes? Yeah I did the assumption of “has to be the same number and size, it’s a fan and clutch!” SHAME!
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Cool. I'd put a drop of loctite on those hex bolts and call it good. That clutch IS a lot beefier. Nice comparo pix.
    Quote Originally Posted by frojoe View Post
    Subscribed... great info and curious to see updates!
    Thanks and definitely will report back. First run will be tonight after I button up from my continuous SAS saga.


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441
    First shake down completed.
    Being “smart” I started with the hood up to judge the various wind generated.
    Holy mother of god...
    It fired up and whooshed like they all do but this was something more. Massive air going through. It was normally a strong breeze with the old fan (you know the breeze when you are checking for something under the hood with the engine running). This one gives a stiff wind. If I had to guess about halfway between the old fans engaged and not.
    Closing the hood and I could feel the air being sucked through the grills. Normally you can feel something but this was like having your hand out the window at 25.
    As most of us do, I have a “shake down circuit” of about 10 miles. Mine consists of right turns, hills, twistys, and varying speeds of 25-55 mph. I’ve done it enough times that I know where the temps should be.
    I ran it twice and never got above 104. Cruising was 102; normally 104.
    Thinking “well it is below freezing “ I decided to run it backwards. This gives left turns and long waits at lights. There is one light that normally has me waiting for a bit. Temps get to 107 then the hill at 45 is enough of a load the thermostat opens and temps plummet to 90s.
    At the light it never got above 105.
    On the hill, the tstat never opened and I held at 102.
    Overall the mpg on the circuits was normal: 18.3.
    There are several things that could account for this but as this was the only thing I did to the engine today...
    Now for the draw back because there always is....
    Hard to say with certainty but I felt the engine was working a little harder, maybe 100 rpm? Where I would normally cruise at 1500 rpm I felt like I was doing 1600, 2200 was 2300; idle at 750 was 750 though.
    So there are probably some lost ponies.
    But overall definite increase in air flow and I am not racing I can live with it.
    More to come after standard commutes etc.


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    60
    My Cars
    1999 740iL
    Interesting - thanks for the update!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441
    For the M62 owners, here is the E39 thread for the mod.
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...or-V8-e39-cars


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441
    So it has been almost a month and figured a report back is due.
    Overall I like it very much and recommend it.
    The initial additional rpm seems to have gone and it is the same as ever. I suspect I was just hypersensitive at the initial install.
    Temps have taken longer to reach full operation and stay slightly cooler. On my standard commute I would reach 102 to the gated entrance. Now I am regularly at 98. Movement at operating temps used to be 104 now is 102. Over 40mph same as ever of about 102-104. I have yet to go above 106 but maybe in the hot summer (we had a few 70°F days).
    Air movement is still the same (lots) with the largest difference being noise. The old fan sounded rather loud at cold start, this one is louder at cold start but nowhere near the same level. I have to actively listen for it to hear it.
    The washers and 2 bolts are holding up as well...
    More as it develops and I remember to update.



    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    13,581
    My Cars
    2000 740i sport
    Why not just use an e53 fan and clutch?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441
    Quote Originally Posted by purplecty View Post
    Why not just use an e53 fan and clutch?
    The e53 is still the stand alone blade right? No ring? Went for this as (in theory) there should be more safety as it requires three break points to catastrophically fail.


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    13,581
    My Cars
    2000 740i sport
    Quote Originally Posted by TheAngryBear View Post
    The e53 is still the stand alone blade right? No ring? Went for this as (in theory) there should be more safety as it requires three break points to catastrophically fail.


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1
    It has the ring around it too and the clutch is bigger. Looking at it, they may be the same as the e65...
    Last edited by purplecty; 03-13-2019 at 09:22 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441
    Quote Originally Posted by purplecty View Post
    It has the ring around it too and the clutch is bigger. Looking at it, they may be the same as the e65...
    Looking it up... I did? Used on 53 and 65.
    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...&q=17417504732


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Hansville, wa
    Posts
    972
    My Cars
    2001 750il Chrome line
    Awesome! I put a new fan clutch on two years ago and it is toast. I bought another new one but next time I'm going this route.
    01' 750il Chromeline
    95 M3 LS swapped
    07 M5 Manual
    06' M5, Spartan wheels and a 507hp V10
    00' 740il Dinan, CAI, Romulus exhaust, Stage 5 engine and transmission tune, 750 brakes, camber plates, strut tower brace. Sold
    00' 323i wagon for daughter
    03' 525i wagon for the wife, sold
    98' 740i for the daughter, wrecked
    92' 525i with over 200k, wrecked
    02' R1200 CLC, hit by a bus and broken in half. That one made the news!
    It's like herpes there is no cure but if treated properly you can live with it for the rest of your life

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    5,083
    My Cars
    98 740il, 00 540i,04 ZHP
    Very interesting thread! Thanks for the report backs!

    A few questions...will the ring fan fit on our old clutches?

    What's the benefit to the new vs old clutch? The "beefier" look seems to just be more taller fins on the clutch itself. The body of the clutch doesn't seem much bigger than the old version.

    I imagine the biggest difference in the whole thing is the fan itself, since that is what pushes the air. The clutch maybe if it is tuned more aggressively than ours.

    Just bought a new clutch for the M62TU in the E39. May have to return it and get one of these or at least the fan.
    Last edited by racer2086; 03-16-2019 at 05:20 PM.
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441
    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    Very interesting thread! Thanks for the report backs!

    A few questions...will the ring fan fit on our old clutches?

    What's the benefit to the new vs old clutch? The "beefier" look seems to just be more taller fins on the clutch itself. The body of the clutch doesn't seem much bigger than the old version.

    I imagine the biggest difference in the whole thing is the fan itself, since that is what pushes the air. The clutch maybe if it is tuned more aggressively than ours.

    Just bought a new clutch for the M62TU in the E39. May have to return it and get one of these or at least the fan.
    No the fan won’t fit on our clutches without modifications to either.
    The new clutch is beefier and supposedly doesn’t lock up like ours.


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    5,083
    My Cars
    98 740il, 00 540i,04 ZHP
    Ok so you replace in pairs. I think I will return the clutch I just bought and get this. Then put it on my E38 when I get it back!

    One more question: what is the weight difference between the two clutches? Just thinking of possible added strain on the WP bearing
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Springfield, VA
    Posts
    1,004
    My Cars
    2001 750iL DD74441
    Not sure about the weight difference. It is there but I didn’t measure it. I would say minimal effect on the bearing but there is some.


    2001 750iL DD74441
    Stock

    RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
    H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    5,083
    My Cars
    98 740il, 00 540i,04 ZHP
    Thanks so much for the quick responses. I will return my old and get these. I bet after modifying my t-stat I'll see under 100*C temps.
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    809
    My Cars
    2001 750iL
    AngryBear, thanks for posting. I'll definitely do this swap next time I get in there. I didn't replace the fan or clutch when I did the water pump on my 750 4 years ago. I suppose I should before I start driving it when the weather breaks.
    2005 X5 4.8is (DD winter) * 2001 750iL (DD summer) * 2001 Ford Excursion 7.3 L <> 2005 X5 3.0 * 2003 X5 4.4i * 2009 X3 3.0 * 2009 X5 3.0 * 2007 Toyota Avalon Limited

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    582
    My Cars
    98 750iL, 01 740iL
    Quote Originally Posted by racer2086 View Post
    Thanks so much for the quick responses. I will return my old and get these. I bet after modifying my t-stat I'll see under 100*C temps.
    how will you be modifying it?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    242
    My Cars
    2000 740iL
    I did this mod after you posted this thread. I was in there for a radiator and figure I might as well give it a shot. Works wells for me so far. I have a 2000 740iL and it seemed to fit perfect.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    5,083
    My Cars
    98 740il, 00 540i,04 ZHP
    Quote Originally Posted by MKIVJZA80 View Post
    how will you be modifying it?
    I heated the spring to relax it some as someone in the E39 section did. It dropped things from 108*C to about 102-104 depending on the day and conditions. The original guy that did it didn't keep it that way due to some issues he said he had, but I haven't had any issues. Seems to be working fine.
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Hansville, wa
    Posts
    972
    My Cars
    2001 750il Chrome line
    I ordered a new fan and clutch. I was overheating at the track last year so I will take everything I can get. 15min after it showed up it was in, just removed the air intake hose. Dropped right in with no problems.
    01' 750il Chromeline
    95 M3 LS swapped
    07 M5 Manual
    06' M5, Spartan wheels and a 507hp V10
    00' 740il Dinan, CAI, Romulus exhaust, Stage 5 engine and transmission tune, 750 brakes, camber plates, strut tower brace. Sold
    00' 323i wagon for daughter
    03' 525i wagon for the wife, sold
    98' 740i for the daughter, wrecked
    92' 525i with over 200k, wrecked
    02' R1200 CLC, hit by a bus and broken in half. That one made the news!
    It's like herpes there is no cure but if treated properly you can live with it for the rest of your life

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    5,083
    My Cars
    98 740il, 00 540i,04 ZHP
    Great to hear. I have a clutch and fan coming for the 540. That thing sounds like a freight train, but the clutch is pulling off above 2500 rpm. Still don't want to take the risk.
    '98 740il | 9/97 build | schwarz 2 | sandbeige | 5AT | 270k
    '04 330i ZHP sedan | Mystic blue | Alcantara | 6MT | 120k
    '00 540i sport | Titanium silver | Black | 5AT | 152k
    '85 Mustang GT convertible | Medium charcoal metallic | Gray | 5MT | 216k | one owner, all original

    mods: m-pars | Bilsteins & B&G springs | ValentineOne | StealthOne
    retrofits: full nav | MKIV | bluetooth TCU | BM53 w/ AUX input | video module w/ AV input & backup cam | oem sirius xm | xenon | shades | PDC | rain sensor | BMW DWS TPMS | lighted door handles | front seat heaters | heated steering wheel | euro rear fog lights | ski pass | folding mirrors


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. E39 New Fan Clutch - E31, E38, E39..
    By boomer3 in forum Engines, Performance Parts & Software
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-26-2008, 06:28 PM
  2. my F*n DIY experience WP & fan delete (long)
    By MMNJTWA in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-17-2004, 02:20 PM
  3. fan and clutch
    By peytonrm in forum BMW Parts For Sale
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-26-2003, 03:45 PM
  4. fan and clutch?
    By Turboricecooker in forum General BMW and Automotive Discussion sponsored by Intercity Lines
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-08-2002, 12:12 AM
  5. Removing cooling fan and clutch
    By hyperion500 in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: 03-10-2002, 11:23 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •