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Thread: What engines were available in the 5 series wagons with a manual?

  1. #1
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    What engines were available in the 5 series wagons with a manual?

    I really would like to get a 530i wagon/touring with a manual transmission. I cannot find any of them, anywhere in the country. Is this a car that wasn't made? I can find 525i's with a manual, but no 530i wagons with a manual. I'd really like the extra 40hp from the manual. Is this a unicorn or something that just never got made? Thanks in advance!
    Carl
    Looking for: E39 touring manual
    Sold: '97 Z3 w/2.8l + 5spd

  2. #2
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    If I recall correctly, the 530i Touring was made, but not imported into the US. The US only got the 528i, 525i, and 540i in Touring flavor.

  3. #3
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    Was the 540i touring ever offered in the manual?
    Carl
    Looking for: E39 touring manual
    Sold: '97 Z3 w/2.8l + 5spd

  4. #4
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    According to realoem.com, E39 Wagon + Manual was made for 525i, 528i, and 530i.

    Look in realoem.com "classic" section to see the E39.

  5. #5
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    Thanks. It doesn't look like the touring was ever offered in a 530i in our market. Let alone a manual. There is a 528i, touring/man, but it's the older motor that's only like 2hp more than the 2.5l in the 525iT, so that's kind of a wash. I think I'm basically looking for the biggest motor available in a E39 Touring, with manual, and it would appear, that it's the 2.8l or the 2.5l. Kind of a wash really, they are literally almost the same power. Is there any other motors that I should be considering, or if I go to the E60 is there a higher power combo that I could get?
    Last edited by Agent; 02-14-2019 at 10:46 PM.
    Carl
    Looking for: E39 touring manual
    Sold: '97 Z3 w/2.8l + 5spd

  6. #6
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    Review the spec, the 2.8i has more HP than 2.5i, more than you stated above.

  7. #7
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    No US e39 530it/5s were built. Only outside the US. Best way to do it is get a 525it/5 and swap the engine to a 3.0. I did this in mine and did a 6-speed swap with an e46 M3 transmission and used the 540i/6 transmission crossmember, driveshaft and diff/axles. Only mod needed to do that was the output flange on the M3 transmission needed to be swapped to a 540i/6 output flange.

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  8. #8
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    @cnn: this is what I'm going off of. Is this not accurate?

    525i 2000–2003 M54B25
    6-cyl
    141 kW (189 hp)
    at 6000 rpm
    245 N⋅m (181 lb⋅ft)
    at 3500 rpm
    528i 1995–1998 M52B28
    6-cyl
    142 kW (190 hp)
    at 5300 rpm
    280 N⋅m (207 lb⋅ft)
    at 3950 rpm
    1998–2001 M52TUB28
    6-cyl
    142 kW (190 hp)
    at 5500 rpm
    280 N⋅m (207 lb⋅ft)
    at 3500 rpm


    @blackknight530: that I think is what I would do if I really wanted it, but to be honest, I just want something that is available oem from some company. I have a lot of other projects, and I don't want another one. I want a sporty RWD manual wagon, and for my price point, BMW is the only one that I can find that makes it.
    Carl
    Looking for: E39 touring manual
    Sold: '97 Z3 w/2.8l + 5spd

  9. #9
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    Those figures look accurate. HP figures noted are at high RPM's. While some people do drive them that way, I don't hit 5,000 rpms very often in mine. The more important difference IMO is torque. The M52BTU has quite a bit more torque at 3500 RPMs than does the M54B25. People who have driven both say its noticeable.

  10. #10
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    This post should be moved to the E39 Wagon section as all the info is there for the searching

    Summary of E39 Wagon Sales in U.S.

    E39 BMW 540iT
    1999: 879
    2000: 447
    2001: 406
    2002: 370
    2003: 261
    5-year total for 540iT: 2,363

    E39 BMW 528iT
    1999: 4,068
    2000: 1,712
    2001: -0-
    2002: -0-
    2003: -0-
    5-year total for 528iT: 5,780

    E39 BMW 525iT
    1999: -0-
    2000: 359
    2001: 2,216
    2002: 1,696
    2003: 1,187
    5-year total for 525iT: 5,458

    5-year total for all E39 Wagons: 13,601

    Last edited by SCRSUVS; 03-28-2018 at 09:37 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Thank you for moving it to the correct forum. That is a very helpful list, it would be fantastic if it shared the amount of manual transmission cars also.
    Carl
    Looking for: E39 touring manual
    Sold: '97 Z3 w/2.8l + 5spd

  12. #12
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    Get the 525iT. The M52B28 engine is pretty unimpressive mated to a manual transmission. I own a 523i 5 and I like it better than a 528i 5 I tested when shopping for a manual 6 cyls for dailying it. If you were to buy an auto, then yes, the 528i feels better than the 525i or 525i autos, but in manual, I prefer the smaller displacement. They rev up better, and the "huge torque difference" others are saying it's not there to be felt IMHO.
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
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  13. #13
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    If you end up with a 525 try to get a late model 2002 or 2003. These come with all the extras as standard and if it ends up as a auto, spend the $ to get the Dinan tune as it will make the 4 sp auto seem like it is always in the right great at the right time. The throttle response is much better and revs a few extra RPMs (for what that is worth). Quick install and worth the money IMHO.

    On the purchasing side, it is always better the buy the best car rather than a particular color model with lots of issues. Silver and black are the most popular colors produced and sold in the USA.

    I hunted for 6 months before finding mine. There are a few out there looking for new homes all over Craig's list.
    Last edited by StephenVA; 02-15-2019 at 03:35 PM.
    Current Garage Highlights
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    2004 325iTs (2x)
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Was the 540i touring ever offered in the manual?
    Not from the factory. But people have converted to a 6spd manual taking the components from the 6spd sedan. (The previous own did that on my 540iT)

    525i and 528i's were both offered with 5spd manuals, or the 4spd auto.
    '98 M3 5spd - '03 540it 6spd M-Sport

  15. #15
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    Thank you to everyone. My friend has a 525i Touring with a 5 speed, I think I'm going to end up getting that one from him.
    Carl
    Looking for: E39 touring manual
    Sold: '97 Z3 w/2.8l + 5spd

  16. #16
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    Both the 525 and 528 are under powered for these tourings. I've owned both. The 528 was a manual and that made it respectable. The 525 was an auto, so it is apples to oranges, but I would prefer the higher torque rating of the 528. Overall, I prefer our 540 to both of them even if it is an auto. The around town mpg for the 525 and 528 is actually worse than our 540. Now for purely highway miles, it is not.

  17. #17
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    Is it really that bad? I've got a race bike and a c5z for track, just looking for something kind of fun to drive so I don't only get to drive the truck in the rain...

  18. #18
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    The real answer is, check in with the "Gear Grinder". He has converted his 540 to a manual and, it's super charged! If you want to know, check in with him, he's got the S@%t goin' on, BIG TIME!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    Is it really that bad? I've got a race bike and a c5z for track, just looking for something kind of fun to drive so I don't only get to drive the truck in the rain...
    It's not that bad. If your friend's close ask him to test the car for a day or two, you'll see for yourself. The M54B25 is a great little engine for everyday, even better if it's mated to a 5 speed manual.
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  20. #20
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    Take one for a test drive and see for yourself. If you have low expectations, you might be surprised. My wife complained that the 525 was gutless, and I agree. She is not a car person but does appreciate cars. She hated driving the manual 528, that is why I sold it to get the 525. She has no complaints about the 540 when it is running of course. 540's have their own set of issues, but it makes driving a touring so much more enjoyable. I even prefer it to be an auto. I get enough of the manual experience in my WRX. It is nice to drive the 540 and just put your foot down.

  21. #21
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    I have 3 E39’s right now, a ‘00 528 wagon, an ‘03 525 wagon and an ‘01 540 M sport sedan, yes, it is a full M sport, from ����. I love each one of them. I know the power the wagons are lacking compared to the 540, but I don’t find them underpowered, but I do mash the throttle a lot harder when I drive them compared to the 540. So somehow, I manage to get them up to speeding speeds pretty well, I’m always speeding around. Been riding motorcycles since forever, ok, not forever, but since I was 5, I own 7 bikes, all of them but the dirt bike are all stupid fast, I know the difference between fast and slow, the i6’s are t that bad. I do like them for the better gas mileage, which is why I don’t daily the 540 anymore.
    Speaking of speeding, I’ve been using an app called Phantom Alert. $99 gets you lifetime service and updates, covers 10 devices, you can pass it around to friends and family. It works with all my Garmin GPS’s, my phone, I still don’t know how it works with an Alpine GPS system, but I will find out soon. Anyway, it tells you where the redlight camera, speed cameras, speed traps, and DUI checkpoints are. Kinda cool, the cops are cool with it because it slows people down, keeps them aware, so the cops actually endorse it. They actually update the people at Phantom Alert of all the new traps and locations too. For speedy guys like me, it’s a cheap gift from driving heaven.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    I have 3 E39’s right now, a ‘00 528 wagon, an ‘03 525 wagon and an ‘01 540 M sport sedan, yes, it is a full M sport, from ����. I love each one of them. I know the power the wagons are lacking compared to the 540, but I don’t find them underpowered, but I do mash the throttle a lot harder when I drive them compared to the 540. So somehow, I manage to get them up to speeding speeds pretty well, I’m always speeding around. Been riding motorcycles since forever, ok, not forever, but since I was 5, I own 7 bikes, all of them but the dirt bike are all stupid fast, I know the difference between fast and slow, the i6’s are t that bad. I do like them for the better gas mileage, which is why I don’t daily the 540 anymore.
    Speaking of speeding, I’ve been using an app called Phantom Alert. $99 gets you lifetime service and updates, covers 10 devices, you can pass it around to friends and family. It works with all my Garmin GPS’s, my phone, I still don’t know how it works with an Alpine GPS system, but I will find out soon. Anyway, it tells you where the redlight camera, speed cameras, speed traps, and DUI checkpoints are. Kinda cool, the cops are cool with it because it slows people down, keeps them aware, so the cops actually endorse it. They actually update the people at Phantom Alert of all the new traps and locations too. For speedy guys like me, it’s a cheap gift from driving heaven.
    I have the 523i manual which is way more agile and nimbler than the 540i, and after I got it I just felt stupid that I passed on 3 or 4 before the one I got. I agree with you. It's not that bad (especially in manual) if you just keep your braking to a minimum. I added a 3.5 kilos chromoly LWFW and a clutch assembly from a M30 engine and man, it made a difference! (although the tradeoff is slight chatter and gear noise when warm in neutral and A/C on)
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent View Post
    @cnn: this is what I'm going off of. Is this not accurate?

    525i 2000–2003 M54B25
    6-cyl
    141 kW (189 hp)
    at 6000 rpm
    245 N⋅m (181 lb⋅ft)
    at 3500 rpm
    528i 1995–1998 M52B28
    6-cyl
    142 kW (190 hp)
    at 5300 rpm
    280 N⋅m (207 lb⋅ft)
    at 3950 rpm
    1998–2001 M52TUB28
    6-cyl
    142 kW (190 hp)
    at 5500 rpm
    280 N⋅m (207 lb⋅ft)
    at 3500 rpm


    @blackknight530: that I think is what I would do if I really wanted it, but to be honest, I just want something that is available oem from some company. I have a lot of other projects, and I don't want another one. I want a sporty RWD manual wagon, and for my price point, BMW is the only one that I can find that makes it.
    No, those numbers are not correct, the below are from the factory owners manuals. And IMO the 2.8s were underrated and the 2.5 is not.

    HP Torque
    2.5 184 175
    2.8 single vanos 190 206
    2.8 double vanos 193 206

    HP is off almost 10 from the M52tu, but more importantly I suspect torque is off 31 foot pounds. Having had both a M52tu and M54 2.5 touring I can say the 2.8 is a little weak, not quite enough, but the 2.5 isn't nearly enough. There's a big difference. Partly is gearing, to me the 2.5 touring just feels overgeared, it's got to go down 2 gears on the freeway instead of 1 or none. More torque multiplication would really help, but there's a big gap between diff ratios available. Now stand on it a while and it will get moving at a hyperlegal speed fairly quickly, but that's not how I drive day to day. Passing on a 2 lane road isn't too bad, it'll downshift 3 gears, pick it's skirt and move after a bit. But on the freeway? Changing lanes to a lane that's moving 8 MPH faster? it's gotta go down 2 and take a while. To me it's a drivability issue, not an actual performance issue.

    Yes, I'm underwhelmed with our 525it.

    And as I believe has been stated earlier, while the 2.5 and 2.8s were available with a manual in the touring, the 3.0 never was an option in the touring in this country with any transmission.
    Last edited by Mike WW; 02-19-2019 at 05:58 PM.
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  24. #24
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    In the US, the 528iT came with the M52tuB28 (the double vanos motor). The first year of the wagon was '99, which was the first year of the double-vanos engine. The 525iT was the later M54B25, with obviously, less displacement and less power.

    I used to race a '99 Z3 Coupe 2.8 with the same drivetrain as that 528iT. Obviously, the Z3 is a MUCH lighter platform, but with the right (simple) mods, that can be quite a decent setup. No doubt that these are all underpowered in the E39 though. My E39 was a 540iT with a 6-speed swap, which was great.
    I like the unicorns.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshS View Post
    In the US, the 528iT came with the M52tuB28 (the double vanos motor). The first year of the wagon was '99, which was the first year of the double-vanos engine. The 525iT was the later M54B25, with obviously, less displacement and less power.

    I used to race a '99 Z3 Coupe 2.8 with the same drivetrain as that 528iT. Obviously, the Z3 is a MUCH lighter platform, but with the right (simple) mods, that can be quite a decent setup. No doubt that these are all underpowered in the E39 though. My E39 was a 540iT with a 6-speed swap, which was great.
    The non tu M52 in my E36, stock with a 5 speed, is a little pocket rocket. But add 600 pounds, much taller gearing, even larger diameter tires, and it becomes at best adequate. Shrink it to a 2.5 and it's not adequate.
    98 328is
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