E39 540i Me7.2 DME Tuning shenanigans and findings

[geargrinder]

Updated my dme but im not sure if i selected a different version... I used zusb: 7533592 I saw GearGrinder mentioned a different one.

OK. If you want to use the public stuff..

PLEASE USE THE PROPER ZB NUMBERS.

DON'T GO MAKING CRAP UP UNLESS YOU WANT TO HAVE PROBLEMS AND/OR BE ON YOUR OWN.


Match your model year when you pick the ZB is important as well!

Software version Entries shows: 0111950069012402. So this would mean version 6901 and the tune version as 2402. Have you ever seen a tune version without letters?

Absolutely and that is fine and legit calibration number.

Now in this case since the program is 6901 you are "OK" but really people should just follow the damn instructions.

Doesn't seem to match up with the stage 2 tune file provided. It does match up with a stage 1 tune i found and the 6901 and 6902 bin files.
The stage 2 tune file is 011195006901S41E. If they are both based off the 6901 version why dont they match up in some values? (the x and y values are different)

OK.

DO JUST NOT GO ARBITRARILY FLASHING THE 'TUNE FILES' THAT ZARBOZ HAS POSTED ON GITHUB.

Frankly that was entirely stupid move by him and I've warned him over and over that it is ill advised to do anything like that.

I believe he means well, and has posted those tunes as "for research purposes", however, you NEED TO KNOW WHAT THOSE TUNES ARE FOR.

Really he should have kept these under wraps and/or distributed them only to project-contributors who are doing low level analysis and research.

You'll pretty much note any other "public ECU hack / development projects" STRENUOUSLY AVOID POSTING RANDOM TUNES FOR PEOPLE TO FLASH because this shit is complicated and potentially hazardous and morons can't be trusted to not "FLASH STAGE 2 TUNE TO MY CAR WEEEEEE!!!!!!!" when the hardware is not there it support it. Go to NefMoto and you'll see the ME7.1 guys never post tunes for "hey dudes flash this to your car!" Mostly only tunes that get posted are "have a look and see if I've made mistakes" (aka "rate my tune"). Almost every other public ECU hack thread is the same. Posting up "Stage X tune for everybody" is dumb unless the tune is well known and tested.

If the tune is mismatched to things like: injectors, MAF, throttle body, possibly exhaust... Well you could cause harm to your car and certainly it will run like shit.

There's an entirely different question about posting publicly paid commercial tunes that were originally sold to the owners with a copyright license agreement, and I believe we are in disagreement about that as well.

Zarboz you should either take them down or put a huge disclaimer on them, or, give very careful and specific instructions as to when and where they should be used, as at the moment you're just encouraging people to flash them to the wrong cars.

End of old-man lecture.

[Spirit Force]

@geargrinder There is more than ample warning in this and the other thread about flashing. If people are stupid enough to flash any tune to any car without thinking for a second is it compatible, that is their own fault. You can't fix stupid, no matter how hard you try. I think those other tunes are good to be there for enthusiast to learn from.

[zarboz]

OK. If you want to use the public stuff..

PLEASE USE THE PROPER ZB NUMBERS.

DON'T GO MAKING CRAP UP UNLESS YOU WANT TO HAVE PROBLEMS AND/OR BE ON YOUR OWN.


Match your model year when you pick the ZB is important as well!



Absolutely and that is fine and legit calibration number.

Now in this case since the program is 6901 you are "OK" but really people should just follow the damn instructions.



OK.

DO JUST NOT GO ARBITRARILY FLASHING THE 'TUNE FILES' THAT ZARBOZ HAS POSTED ON GITHUB.

Frankly that was entirely stupid move by him and I've warned him over and over that it is ill advised to do anything like that.

I believe he means well, and has posted those tunes as "for research purposes", however, you NEED TO KNOW WHAT THOSE TUNES ARE FOR.

Really he should have kept these under wraps and/or distributed them only to project-contributors who are doing low level analysis and research.

You'll pretty much note any other "public ECU hack / development projects" STRENUOUSLY AVOID POSTING RANDOM TUNES FOR PEOPLE TO FLASH because this shit is complicated and potentially hazardous and morons can't be trusted to not "FLASH STAGE 2 TUNE TO MY CAR WEEEEEE!!!!!!!" when the hardware is not there it support it. Go to NefMoto and you'll see the ME7.1 guys never post tunes for "hey dudes flash this to your car!" Mostly only tunes that get posted are "have a look and see if I've made mistakes" (aka "rate my tune"). Almost every other public ECU hack thread is the same. Posting up "Stage X tune for everybody" is dumb unless the tune is well known and tested.

If the tune is mismatched to things like: injectors, MAF, throttle body, possibly exhaust... Well you could cause harm to your car and certainly it will run like shit.

There's an entirely different question about posting publicly paid commercial tunes that were originally sold to the owners with a copyright license agreement, and I believe we are in disagreement about that as well.

Zarboz you should either take them down or put a huge disclaimer on them, or, give very careful and specific instructions as to when and where they should be used, as at the moment you're just encouraging people to flash them to the wrong cars.

End of old-man lecture.

I added as many big warning signs as I could

if stupid is stupid .....stupid will do stupid


Hopefully the big DO NOT FLASH signs now help folks out understand they are merely for comparison purposes
Also I put HUGE red lettering in the OP so that folks would read your well written post and understand why software versions are important


The manufacturer tunes have long been removed (since that day a month or two ago) and now I have removed the tunes that me and the other fellow working on the xdf files have setup
the tuned files were merely there for comparison purposes.

the only files i left in the github that were binaries are the ones the XDF's were built off of and i added a readme for those that they are the files the XDF's were developed off of

[zarboz]

Updated my dme but im not sure if i selected a different version... I used zusb: 7533592 I saw GearGrinder mentioned a different one.

Software version Entries shows: 0111950069012402. So this would mean version 6901 and the tune version as 2402. Have you ever seen a tune version without letters?

Doesn't seem to match up with the stage 2 tune file provided. It does match up with a stage 1 tune i found and the 6901 and 6902 bin files.
The stage 2 tune file is 011195006901S41E. If they are both based off the 6901 version why dont they match up in some values? (the x and y values are different)

thanks!

the tuned file was named aptly for the XDF it belonged to

if you car did not belong to that XDF the file is invalid to flash

the contents of the file were there merely to look at it had ignition mods/ MAF mods / Fueling mods done to it so the tables were something I wanted folks to be able to see but in retrospect I should make a wiki page with the tables of before vs after and why the change of XYZ happened

also if your ZUSB doesn't match up to the ones outlined in GearGrinders thread it will be hard to help you out as the xdf files are based off the versions outlined in his post and I don't really feel like versioning 50102340123013023013020123498x different XDF files for the multitudes of software versions for every month/year of production but I have included the binaries the XDF files were based off of for reference so that if you feel like re-versioning one for your version software you are able to cross reference table locations in hex



I am changing the 5a01 large table as initially it was based off a dated software version, the author who submitted that xdf was not up to date.

I am stuck on 5a01 small tables version as I have an EWS deleted binary and cannot do a program update or I lose my EWS delete and would have to pay for the service again, that's not something I am wanting to do.

[geargrinder]

@geargrinder There is more than ample warning in this and the other thread about flashing. If people are stupid enough to flash any tune to any car without thinking for a second is it compatible, that is their own fault. You can't fix stupid, no matter how hard you try. I think those other tunes are good to be there for enthusiast to learn from.

Ha. Fair enough. But indeed you see what happens here - people going right in for "ZOMG STAGE 2 I FLAHS THIS YEAZBOYZ!"

- - - Updated - - -

I added as many big warning signs as I could

if stupid is stupid .....stupid will do stupid


Hopefully the big DO NOT FLASH signs now help folks out understand they are merely for comparison purposes
Also I put HUGE red lettering in the OP so that folks would read your well written post and understand why software versions are important


The manufacturer tunes have long been removed (since that day a month or two ago) and now I have removed the tunes that me and the other fellow working on the xdf files have setup
the tuned files were merely there for comparison purposes.

^^^ That is all very good and excelllent thank you.

the contents of the file were there merely to look at it had ignition mods/ MAF mods / Fueling mods done to it so the tables were something I wanted folks to be able to see but in retrospect I should make a wiki page with the tables of before vs after and why the change of XYZ happened

A final 'beat over the head' could also be rename the filenames "Stage1_for_illustration_only_do_not_flash.bin " etc. etc.

[upbeatgfx]

OK. If you want to use the public stuff..

PLEASE USE THE PROPER ZB NUMBERS.

DON'T GO MAKING CRAP UP UNLESS YOU WANT TO HAVE PROBLEMS AND/OR BE ON YOUR OWN.


Match your model year when you pick the ZB is important as well!

Absolutely and that is fine and legit calibration number.

Now in this case since the program is 6901 you are "OK" but really people should just follow the damn instructions.



OK.

DO JUST NOT GO ARBITRARILY FLASHING THE 'TUNE FILES' THAT ZARBOZ HAS POSTED ON GITHUB.

Frankly that was entirely stupid move by him and I've warned him over and over that it is ill advised to do anything like that.

I believe he means well, and has posted those tunes as "for research purposes", however, you NEED TO KNOW WHAT THOSE TUNES ARE FOR.

Really he should have kept these under wraps and/or distributed them only to project-contributors who are doing low level analysis and research.

You'll pretty much note any other "public ECU hack / development projects" STRENUOUSLY AVOID POSTING RANDOM TUNES FOR PEOPLE TO FLASH because this shit is complicated and potentially hazardous and morons can't be trusted to not "FLASH STAGE 2 TUNE TO MY CAR WEEEEEE!!!!!!!" when the hardware is not there it support it. Go to NefMoto and you'll see the ME7.1 guys never post tunes for "hey dudes flash this to your car!" Mostly only tunes that get posted are "have a look and see if I've made mistakes" (aka "rate my tune"). Almost every other public ECU hack thread is the same. Posting up "Stage X tune for everybody" is dumb unless the tune is well known and tested.

If the tune is mismatched to things like: injectors, MAF, throttle body, possibly exhaust... Well you could cause harm to your car and certainly it will run like shit.

There's an entirely different question about posting publicly paid commercial tunes that were originally sold to the owners with a copyright license agreement, and I believe we are in disagreement about that as well.

Zarboz you should either take them down or put a huge disclaimer on them, or, give very careful and specific instructions as to when and where they should be used, as at the moment you're just encouraging people to flash them to the wrong cars.

End of old-man lecture.

Thank you sir. I was not planning on flashing anything but the 88c tables. Sorry about not following the directions. I didnt see your great post until now. My dumbass was cross referencing zbusbs for hours lol

I was looking at the throttle tables based on the other tunes to see what they were

I defiantly am not going to flash random shit on my ecu. It is my daily driver. Ive been researching zarboz's work since the first week it was on github. Not going to mess with anything until I understand everything fully.

I was just wondering why the tables dont match up. I think zarboz is going to answer this in the future like you said. The hex arrangements must be different per version.

I am only using his tune files to compare. I knew that if they dont match up i wouldnt fuck with it.

I saw my ZB number is appropriate for my year car. I researched for hours before updating. I can redo the update to what you mentioned but I think I am good.

I found it absolutely crazy that someone flashed files that they didn't even know anything about. That is scary. I totally agree that they should be hidden because people will keep doing this shit. However, Zarboz did mention multiple times on his github that the files are ONLY FOR REFERENCE. This is why I came on here to ask a few questions. I'd rather look stupid in front of you guys then do anything stupid to my car.

Once there is complete support maybe ill mess with ignition shit but definitely not now. In fact, I am installing all the dinan engine shit on my car and I may just go with a commercial tune.

But maybe ill FlAsH aLl ThE EnGNiTion TaBlEs REEEEEEEEEEEEEET My caw will be so faster and nicer with a blown engine
I saw that i can get 6000 extra horsepowers with the stage 2

[upbeatgfx]

the tuned file was named aptly for the XDF it belonged to

if you car did not belong to that XDF the file is invalid to flash

the contents of the file were there merely to look at it had ignition mods/ MAF mods / Fueling mods done to it so the tables were something I wanted folks to be able to see but in retrospect I should make a wiki page with the tables of before vs after and why the change of XYZ happened

also if your ZUSB doesn't match up to the ones outlined in GearGrinders thread it will be hard to help you out as the xdf files are based off the versions outlined in his post and I don't really feel like versioning 50102340123013023013020123498x different XDF files for the multitudes of software versions for every month/year of production but I have included the binaries the XDF files were based off of for reference so that if you feel like re-versioning one for your version software you are able to cross reference table locations in hex



I am changing the 5a01 large table as initially it was based off a dated software version, the author who submitted that xdf was not up to date.

I am stuck on 5a01 small tables version as I have an EWS deleted binary and cannot do a program update or I lose my EWS delete and would have to pay for the service again, that's not something I am wanting to do.

Thank you for all your work. I am going to re flash the Zusb to the number that gear grinder provided just to be safe. I thought in my hours of research i obtained the correct Zusb but i think im wrong.

Hey man why cross reference hex when I can just use your great XDF. Ill update that zusb now.

[zarboz]

Thank you for all your work. I am going to re flash the Zusb to the number that gear grinder provided just to be safe. I thought in my hours of research i obtained the correct Zusb but i think im wrong.

Hey man why cross reference hex when I can just use your great XDF. Ill update that zusb now.

Geargrinder posted this cool utility called ZBNumberwang that will let you browse SP-Daten folders and determine zusb numbers contained

[upbeatgfx]

Geargrinder posted this cool utility called ZBNumberwang that will let you browse SP-Daten folders and determine zusb numbers contained

I saw that! ill try it out.

[Spirit Force]

I saw that! ill try it out.

Just a quick warning, it isn't 100% correct everytime. It gave me wrong zusb. Let Winkfp/ISTA-P select the correct Zusb.

[zarboz]

Thanks geargrinder, got everything set and ready. Went from 7532675 to 7533611!

He has an M5 cluster ready to go, does the oil temp patch also enable the warm up lights?

Also I read somewhere that the convenience start feature was controlled by the dme. Is there also a way that could be made into a toggle or patch in the xdf for manual cars?

RE the comfort start
Yes there is a byte flag to turn it on and off
If you wanna use it you’ll need to rewire a bunch of your ignition stuff as automatic cars are wired differently

You’d essentially have to go through gear grinders manual swap thread and reverse the wiring to go manual to automatic for the ignition


Long story short not worth it and not super useful for regular use

Doing more research this week on an automatic car to see what impact using this flag on a manual mapped dme gas on an automatic car (it allows the car to start and drive but not sure what other negatives will occur as of yet )

[Spirit Force]

Anyone happen to know does our me7.2 support multispark? I know me7.1 supports it.

[MotorMouth93]

I've never seen anything about multi-spark support in the function sheet.

[zarboz]

Anyone happen to know does our me7.2 support multispark? I know me7.1 supports it.

I would read up on the ZUE function and see if our DME supports it

[Spirit Force]

I would read up on the ZUE function and see if our DME supports it

I did take a quick look at ZUE before asking, but didn't notice anything referring to multispark. Just tought to ask if I missed something. Since me7.1 has it one might assume 7.2 would have it too.

[zarboz]

I did take a quick look at ZUE before asking, but didn't notice anything referring to multispark. Just tought to ask if I missed something. Since me7.1 has it one might assume 7.2 would have it too.

the quick gloss over I had of ZUE didnt show me anything worth value for what you're looking for

[Spirit Force]

the quick gloss over I had of ZUE didnt show me anything worth value for what you're looking for

So most likely there is no multispark support on our ecu. It would have been a nice feature with E85. I'll keep on researching more E85 stuff.

[Spirit Force]

Increasing KRKTE should increase the injection time, or did I misunderstand the Funktionsrahmen? Adjusted the value, but didn't see any change.

[zarboz]

Increasing KRKTE should increase the injection time, or did I misunderstand the Funktionsrahmen? Adjusted the value, but didn't see any change.

KRKTE ++ TUVB ++ TEMIN are the 3 values to change

temin = injector min time
tuvb = Injector offset dependent on voltage
KRKTE = Airmass to fuel injector on time conversion based on injector size and fuel pressure

[Spirit Force]

I tried adding to KRKTE and it didn't have effect on fuel trims. As I understand it should have had an effect on fuel trims.

[zarboz]

I tried adding to KRKTE and it didn't have effect on fuel trims. As I understand it should have had an effect on fuel trims.

All 3 items work in tandem with each other

in the FR there’s a formula for krkte to use

[Spirit Force]

All 3 items work in tandem with each other

in the FR there’s a formula for krkte to use

I got a excel sheet that got the formula to calculate krkte. I've used that. The stock krkte for our ecu seems to be 0,1771 according the xdf and damos. According to the krkte calculator I would need 0,2032. First I decided to try 1,9000 (just to be on the safe side), didn't have any effect, the second time I tried 0,2000. Still no effect on fuel trims. Change from 0,1771 -> 0,2000 should have had an effect. I know all those values work together, I just can't understand why changing krkte has no effect.

[zarboz]

I got a excel sheet that got the formula to calculate krkte. I've used that. The stock krkte for our ecu seems to be 0,1771 according the xdf and damos. According to the krkte calculator I would need 0,2032. First I decided to try 1,9000 (just to be on the safe side), didn't have any effect, the second time I tried 0,2000. Still no effect on fuel trims. Change from 0,1771 -> 0,2000 should have had an effect. I know all those values work together, I just can't understand why changing krkte has no effect.

make sure the sheet is calcluating for a v8 not a v6 cuz I just put 42lb injectors in a setup and it required BOTH krkte and TUVB changes to set them to working and my KRKTE became .0811 as compared to the 0.1711 stock

Do you have data sheets or anything for the injectors you are trying to manipulate? Or are you just messing about with the stock ones?



most the ones floating around online are for v6 setups ;-)


also the FR says to reset adaptations and errors when altering values such as those before testing I presume you are doing this?

[Spirit Force]

make sure the sheet is calcluating for a v8 not a v6 cuz I just put 42lb injectors in a setup and it required BOTH krkte and TUVB changes to set them to working and my KRKTE became .0811 as compared to the 0.1711 stock

Do you have data sheets or anything for the injectors you are trying to manipulate? Or are you just messing about with the stock ones?



most the ones floating around online are for v6 setups ;-)


also the FR says to reset adaptations and errors when altering values such as those before testing I presume you are doing this?

The sheet is calculating per cylinder, so no issues there. I did check the formulas and factors in it against the FR when I got it. Also performed a sanity check on it made sure I got the stock value with stock injector size. Back in the day I was told engineers don't have to calculate everything by hand, but you will need to be able to finger out if the machine is giving you proper results or not. I know I would need to adjust TUVB if the change was that big, I just changed them to ~25% larger. I don't have spec sheets on those injectors I know got the basics, flow, ohm, 4 hole etc. Additive is about ~5% off with E85, so I got it pretty close with the injectors. Just trying to zero out the adaptations. I haven't manipulated the TVUB, the actual values seem to be ok, but the voltage isn't:
TVUB.JPG
On the damos the voltage goes from ~8-16V. The galletto deletes fault codes, I assumed (mother of all f**k ups I know) it also deleted the adaptations since the adaptation start from 0 after. When I get around to it I'll reset the adaptations with INPA and see if that has any effect.

[Spirit Force]

Resetting adaptions didn't change a thing. I still ended up with ~5 additive.