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Thread: E39 540i Me7.2 DME Tuning shenanigans and findings

  1. #101
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    [OK updated the table with my suggested 'terminology' for those pins not perfectly documented]
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    Hi guys, new to the ME7.2 scene, but coming from MS43 and MSD80. I was able to pull a read on my brothers dme but the bin galletto spit out did not match 90% of the definitions in the xdf? Its an 03 540i, so it should be a 6901 configuration right? Only some maps like throttle map and engine speed limiter matched. After changing tweaking those and using ultimo 3 times, it flashed and ran successfully.

    I attachd my bin for you guys to read if you'd like. I'm just wondering why it doesnt seem to be a 6901 read.

    P.s. I am using the 6901.6902 bin/xdf as reference files to compare to my bin.

    ME72 Partial Read.pdf
    Last edited by Kclemente; 05-17-2019 at 06:08 PM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kclemente View Post
    Hi guys, new to the ME7.2 scene, but coming from MS43 and MSD80. I was able to pull a read on my brothers dme but the bin galletto spit out did not match 90% of the definitions in the xdf? Its an 03 540i, so it should be a 6901 configuration right? Only some maps like throttle map and engine speed limiter matched. After changing tweaking those and using ultimo 3 times, it flashed and ran successfully.

    I attachd my bin for you guys to read if you'd like. I'm just wondering why it doesnt seem to be a 6901 read.

    P.s. I am using the 6901.6902 bin/xdf as reference files to compare to my bin.

    ME72 Partial Read.pdf
    Old bootleg Galletto has a typo w/ the ME7.1. Ignore you did the right thing.
    Most of the time for small tweaking you don't need or want bootmode, so what you did should be fine.

    I've argued with the Zarbozmaster about this repeatedly and that this needs to be explained in dummy language in giant headlines right at the top of everything.
    To be fair, as he's said, maybe documentation and education and information presentation isn't his strong suit.

    You can't use Model Year as a proxy for program version.

    2003's probably got 10 different programs. WTF knows what version any random car has.
    6901 was only the last one released.

    Every time you read an ECU (for the first time at least) you need to determine what version of program is on it and if that matches what your mapping software is setup for.
    Guys say "Oh I assume it was the latest because , you know, it probably went to the dealer and got updated, right?"

    NO, no, 100-times no.

    This all needs to be WELL WRITTEN OUT IN A GOOD DOCUMENT FOR PEEPPLZ.

    I work on ECU's all the time that have only been flashed ONCE, in Germany, when the left the factory, and NEVER updated. Those programs are so old you can't even find them in the WinKFP data files anymore. If not that, quite often they were flashed twice or thrice but never with this latest version we are discussing.

    Use zarbozarino's XDF and use the "Software Version Entries" table.
    It'll look something like "011195006901R402" of which:
    01119500 you can consider a 'constant' meaning "the M62TU ME7.2 platform"
    6901is the program version and
    R402 is the tune version.

    The nice thing is that definition in the XDF should not move (needs to be static so you can figure out what version a version is versioned...) so you CAN use the 'wrong' XDF for that....

    I just lookityerz and it is (I encourage yhou to check yourself) program 6602, tune R402.

    That means, the program remains 6602,
    It has essentially the same tune-release as the last MY03 tune did, but
    Because the program is different, the data may/will-likely-at-least-sometimes be in different locations.

    Now: If your brothers' car doesn't have any tune on it now, then all you need to do and what you absolutely want to do is...
    Flash it up to the latest 6901 version so everything matches.
    WinKFP ZB# 7533611

    Do that, THEN pull the file again, then you'll be on the A-train.

    If you are more interested in version tracking and history, you should get a copy of ZBNumberwang and you can explore how all the historical variants relate to each other.
    ( ^^^ inside joke sorta kinda but not entirely)
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
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  4. #104
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    Thanks geargrinder, got everything set and ready. Went from 7532675 to 7533611!

    He has an M5 cluster ready to go, does the oil temp patch also enable the warm up lights?

    Also I read somewhere that the convenience start feature was controlled by the dme. Is there also a way that could be made into a toggle or patch in the xdf for manual cars?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kclemente View Post
    Also I read somewhere that the convenience start feature was controlled by the dme. Is there also a way that could be made into a toggle or patch in the xdf for manual cars?
    Its been discussed, tho there is a legit safety concern since there's no real neutral switch on the 540 (M5 yes, 540 no). Naturally the auto car knows exactly what gear is is/isn't in. You really don't want it to crank-away while the car is in gear and have it capable of running off by itself. Could use clutch switch instead but that seems pointless to me (if you still have to hold the foot down too whats the point of not having to hold the key over for 1.5 seconds).

    You could create a non-factory homebrew using the M5 neutral switch (pull your tranny and fit that...) and then stick it in-line with the starter relay trigger so that it interrupts it if the trans is in gear. It'd be a bit of PITA wiring too to reroute the starter to a relay socket, populate the relay socket, trigger the relay from the DME, etc. etc. although obviously that's doable.

    Basically a lot of work for dubious/minimal benefit is what I'm gettin' at.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Old bootleg Galletto has a typo w/ the ME7.1. Ignore you did the right thing.
    Most of the time for small tweaking you don't need or want bootmode, so what you did should be fine.

    I've argued with the Zarbozmaster about this repeatedly and that this needs to be explained in dummy language in giant headlines right at the top of everything.
    To be fair, as he's said, maybe documentation and education and information presentation isn't his strong suit.

    You can't use Model Year as a proxy for program version.

    2003's probably got 10 different programs. WTF knows what version any random car has.
    6901 was only the last one released.

    Every time you read an ECU (for the first time at least) you need to determine what version of program is on it and if that matches what your mapping software is setup for.
    Guys say "Oh I assume it was the latest because , you know, it probably went to the dealer and got updated, right?"

    NO, no, 100-times no.

    This all needs to be WELL WRITTEN OUT IN A GOOD DOCUMENT FOR PEEPPLZ.

    I work on ECU's all the time that have only been flashed ONCE, in Germany, when the left the factory, and NEVER updated. Those programs are so old you can't even find them in the WinKFP data files anymore. If not that, quite often they were flashed twice or thrice but never with this latest version we are discussing.

    Use zarbozarino's XDF and use the "Software Version Entries" table.
    It'll look something like "011195006901R402" of which:
    01119500 you can consider a 'constant' meaning "the M62TU ME7.2 platform"
    6901is the program version and
    R402 is the tune version.

    The nice thing is that definition in the XDF should not move (needs to be static so you can figure out what version a version is versioned...) so you CAN use the 'wrong' XDF for that....

    I just lookityerz and it is (I encourage yhou to check yourself) program 6602, tune R402.

    That means, the program remains 6602,
    It has essentially the same tune-release as the last MY03 tune did, but
    Because the program is different, the data may/will-likely-at-least-sometimes be in different locations.

    Now: If your brothers' car doesn't have any tune on it now, then all you need to do and what you absolutely want to do is...
    Flash it up to the latest 6901 version so everything matches.
    WinKFP ZB# 7533611

    Do that, THEN pull the file again, then you'll be on the A-train.

    If you are more interested in version tracking and history, you should get a copy of ZBNumberwang and you can explore how all the historical variants relate to each other.
    ( ^^^ inside joke sorta kinda but not entirely)
    ZBNumberwang has been helpful browsing SPv66

    You are correct I am a lot better at creating a tool than explaining how to use it. A personality trait I am trying to tackle.

    That is def on the "todo" list :\ I tried to write up something on the wiki but it is obviously lacking. This will definitely go to the top of the list of things to do this coming week I can refer back to that e-mail you had sent me. I know we had discussed versioning quit a bit and how convoluted it could become. Realistically I only have access to 2 year model cars to test things on / see reactions so those were the XDF's I focused on first to get results with so I didn't want to tackle all of the various styles that could fall into play at first. Unfortunately I know this impacts the end user but I would rather have tested items to share.

    Also with sp-daten v66 it changes offsets in programs for my 00 car drastically I had posted those binaries, currently the only reason the binaries are posted on the git is for reference material so that if someone wants to version an xdf against their binary, would be one motivated individual, then they could see what maps correspond to what hex.

    Also thanks a ton for helping him out in updating


    I will attempt to correlate data from your posts & email into a comprehensive "this is why you need to update your cars DME / how to understand versioning"


    Quote Originally Posted by Kclemente View Post
    Thanks geargrinder, got everything set and ready. Went from 7532675 to 7533611!

    He has an M5 cluster ready to go, does the oil temp patch also enable the warm up lights?

    Also I read somewhere that the convenience start feature was controlled by the dme. Is there also a way that could be made into a toggle or patch in the xdf for manual cars?

    I mean it could be but refer to GearGrinders comment for that ;-) I have seriously considered it but didn't want to test results on my daily. I just picked up a parts car and am willing to trial some of the autostart flags.



    @KClemente if you still run into problems with things not lining up please let me know and I will start an issue on the github to align an xdf with the versioning file that is on your DME now

    Also am curious what SP-Daten version you used to update with (I am wanting to know what version people find on google most commonly )
    Last edited by zarboz; 05-18-2019 at 11:14 PM.
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    @zarboz I used spdaten v65. Considering that the e89 daten stopped updating after v60, there's really no need for anything newer. It's pretty easy finding v65 and v66 as they're the newest ones so maybe people are going to start using those.

    I heard of people flashing X5 4.6is oda files in their 540i to get their warm up lights to work. Since its the same DME, are you able to locate the toggle for the warm up lights?

    Also, I'd be willing to do some testing on some autostart flags if you decide to pursue it

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    The m5 cluster patch is supposed to enable the warm up and oil temp for the m5 cluster on a 6901/6902 car

    Not compatible with 5a01 currently

    Patch was authored by another member I will have to ask for a good snippet to put in the info box of the patch
    Last edited by zarboz; 05-19-2019 at 12:20 PM.

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    Whoa what a great project zarboz! Pulled the 64bit partial read from my 540. The 5A01 seems to be the correct XDF. Since the 5A01 doesn't have Software Version Entries -table, I used the 5A01.Smalltables XDF to check it. I shows 011195005A01241D. So I assume the 5A01 XDF is the one to use? I ordered a used me7.2 for testing. After I get it I'll probably be visiting a friend of mine who has genuine kess v2 to read it in bootmode and virginizine it. Then flash it to same ZB as the current one. After that let the experimentation begin.
    Last edited by Spirit Force; 05-19-2019 at 06:33 PM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Force View Post
    Whoa what a great project zarboz! Pulled the 64bit partial read from my 540. The 5A01 seems to be the correct XDF. Since the 5A01 doesn't have Software Version Entries -table, I used the 5A01.Smalltables XDF to check it. I shows 011195005A01241D. So I assume the 5A01 XDF is the one to use? I ordered a used me7.2 for testing. After I get it I'll probably be visiting a friend of mine who has genuine kess v2 to read it in bootmode and virginizine it. Then flash it to same ZB as the current one. After that let the experimentation begin.
    S-F you did it exactly right. Yes you are exactly correct. Your program is 5A01 and your calibration (tune) is 341D. Your car/ECU was obv up-flashed to the latest program at some point.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kclemente View Post
    @zarboz I used spdaten v65. Considering that the e89 daten stopped updating after v60, there's really no need for anything newer. It's pretty easy finding v65 and v66 as they're the newest ones so maybe people are going to start using those.
    Even earlier. They stopped updated E39 stuff ages ago. I could ZBNumberwang and look at some dates but nobody should really waste brain cell calories on "ZOMG WHICH VERSION OF DATEN ZOMG MINE ISN'T THE LATEST" for any E-series car really. You'd have to have some crazy old data file version for that to be an issue, and, I can tell you right now, those old versions are difficult to find even if you want to. Virtually everything easily publicly available is all stuff that's been completely updated for E-chassis and will never change again.

    Klem I know you were not saying otherwise, just clarifying since this thread is inviting 1000 n00biedoobie questions and concerns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kclemente View Post
    I heard of people flashing X5 4.6is oda files in their 540i to get their warm up lights to work. Since its the same DME, are you able to locate the toggle for the warm up lights?
    Hold up hold up.

    You are missing the backstory.

    1. Many many moons ago, when you were only a glimmer in the E39-forums eye, Terra and blackknight worked out the M5 cluster issues. Terra has posted actual flashable WinKFP 0DA files here a long time ago. All that is well documented. Search for the M5 cluster retrofit mother-thread. Terra even gives hex addresses and bytes for changes in some of his old posts, however there's no reason for anyone to eff around with that really... because...
    2. The XDF patches exactly replicate that functionality. In otherwords you can flash Terra's file, or apply one of those patches, as you like. Naturally flashing his file will blow away any other changes your tune has however its more bulletproof than dicking around w/ checksums and patches etc. for many owners who only want / need that feature to work for now.
    3. One thing you'll find in that thread is that the code for those features doesn't exist in the older programs. Which is why its for MY01+ only. The older binaries simply don't have the program logic.
    4. The E38 740i6 manual swap bros have to use the E39 MY99-00 code, which is why they get kinda boned w/ the M5 cluster swap. Accordingly blackknight has been asking zarboz to try to find tweaks to make a MY01 flash work on a pre-01/Euro car. That's what some of the other buzz is. The sticking point is evap hardware, of which there can be 3 different variants basically, and if you have an early car (incl. E38), then running the later versions gives you codes and SES lights.


    So: Dont dick around with the 4.6is stuff for oil warmup, that's oldweaksauce at this point. Either use the patches provided, or, go find Terras 0DA's. The benefit of the 0DA's is that for people who dont have 'generic' flashing software/cables you can use WinKFP, and, that is a pretty bulletproof procedure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zarboz View Post
    I will attempt to correlate data from your posts & email into a comprehensive "this is why you need to update your cars DME / how to understand versioning"
    Bryo: Let me try to whip something up for you. Maybe will shoot by email, let me see...
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Force View Post
    Whoa what a great project zarboz! Pulled the 64bit partial read from my 540. The 5A01 seems to be the correct XDF. Since the 5A01 doesn't have Software Version Entries -table, I used the 5A01.Smalltables XDF to check it. I shows 011195005A01241D. So I assume the 5A01 XDF is the one to use? I ordered a used me7.2 for testing. After I get it I'll probably be visiting a friend of mine who has genuine kess v2 to read it in bootmode and virginizine it. Then flash it to same ZB as the current one. After that let the experimentation begin.

    you can read this DME in boot mode with a K+Dcan cable easily and jmgarages flasher utility


    google BMW Me7.2 boot pin

    and his software is called jmgarage flasher

    (can also use galletto 1260 as well but its complicated and I would rather not post about it since it would potentially confuse new visitors to this post)

    but fuggit i guess ill confuse the heck out of everyone


    Boot your donor DME into boot mode (the one from your car) read it and save the file.

    Take your ebay DME and put it into boot mode

    write the file you just backed up

    you have now cloned your DME



    the forums on his website have a current link to his flasher software as well
    like i said it uses a K+Dcan cable
    Last edited by zarboz; 05-20-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Force View Post
    Whoa what a great project zarboz! Pulled the 64bit partial read from my 540. The 5A01 seems to be the correct XDF. Since the 5A01 doesn't have Software Version Entries -table, I used the 5A01.Smalltables XDF to check it. I shows 011195005A01241D. So I assume the 5A01 XDF is the one to use? I ordered a used me7.2 for testing. After I get it I'll probably be visiting a friend of mine who has genuine kess v2 to read it in bootmode and virginizine it. Then flash it to same ZB as the current one. After that let the experimentation begin.

    Double check specifically the fuel injection tables if they look off you need to use the smalltables one if they look proper you have the right XDF

    also on my TODO is update that XDF to be on par with the others
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  14. #114
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    Because the info in this thread is messy and ugly and confusing, zarboz having deleted his orig post and completely regenerated it a few times, and I want people to be able to find / ref this stuff consistently, and, I'd like to be able to edit / improve / tweak documentation as and when I like...

    I decided to just start fresh.

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-101-MUST-READ
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    That's what I've done. Most of the tables seem correct with 5A01. With 5A01.Smalltables, pretty much all the tables are completely wrong. Base injection map, base ignition map etc are all wrong with smalltables. With the 5A01 The injection, ignition etc. tables look good, but the idle tables can't possibly be right:

    idle.JPG

    Current ZB: 7539336, it's ECE car. Would be great to get the 5A01.XDF up to date.
    Last edited by Spirit Force; 05-20-2019 at 12:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Force View Post
    That's what I've done. Most of the tables seem correct with 5A01. With 5A01.Smalltables, pretty much all the tables are completely wrong. Base injection map, base ignition map etc are all wrong with smalltables. With the 5A01 The injection, ignition etc. tables look good, but the idle tables can't possibly be right:

    idle.JPG

    Current ZB: 7539336, it's ECE car. Would be great to get the 5A01.XDF up to date.

    So not to get even more confusing

    but the original XDF was 6901/2

    then 5a01 was built off 6901

    then 5a01 small tables was adapted off 6901 (thats what my car has)



    So the idle portions of that particular map could very well be invalid if you want to file an issue on the github you can or i can file it on your behalf

    They would be invalid because: They never got the offsets fixed from 6901/2 > 5a01
    Last edited by zarboz; 05-20-2019 at 12:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarboz View Post
    So not to get even more confusing

    but the original XDF was 6901/2

    then 5a01 was built off 6901

    then 5a01 small tables was adapted off 6901 (thats what my car has)



    So the idle portions of that particular map could very well be invalid if you want to file an issue on the github you can or i can file it on your behalf

    They would be invalid because: They never got the offsets fixed from 6901/2 > 5a01
    That's probably is what the issue is because most of the XDF are based on some other XDF. You need any more info on it?

  18. #118
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    From having done it repeatedly.

    To do a new version XDF, you have to, for each and every value most of the time (rare exceptions like software version or some other 'master' values):
    1. Search for the value/table/map and try to ID it vs other 'close matches'.
    2. Confirm the values look plausible vs whatever the conversion formula is.
    3. Triple check the size to see if it looks like it changed (more or less rows/colums).
    4. Look at the other values around it to see if they look right/same.

    There's plenty of places where there might be 3-4 tables of the same kind in a row, and so it can be very tricky. Maybe you have 3 injection tables in a row and they all look super similar, axes/values/size. Gotta be sure you're not picking the 1st one when you mean to pick the 3rd one etc.

    Making XDF for new program versions is tedious and not trivial.

    Sure there's some routines you develop to make it go faster, and tricks that help it go quicker sometimes (might hit a bunch of tables that have barely moved, and they are all in same order in a row just like 100 bytes off.... ) but it takes time and you can't skip step 3 & 4 because all of a sudden the 4th table in the middle of 7 changed size.
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    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Your car/ECU was obv up-flashed to the latest program at some point.
    Flashed it to up to date several years ago with ICOM.

    That's pretty nice tool. Browsing manually the historie etc. is kinda pain the ass. I flash cars to newest software quite frequently, due to issues with the software currently in the car. Most recent weird issue was with an N57. After it go a tune the engine would shutdown if regen was on and car slowed for red lights etc. Flashed it newest software, new tune done on it and fixed. Why I'm going to be doing tuning on the ME7.2 myself is none of the guys I asked to do E85 tune wouldn't touch it. Basically too much hassle for one car.
    Last edited by Spirit Force; 05-21-2019 at 05:59 PM.

  21. #121
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Castle Rock CO
    Posts
    264
    My Cars
    1990 325is, 1998 740i
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Force View Post
    That's probably is what the issue is because most of the XDF are based on some other XDF. You need any more info on it?
    No, that should be sufficient information. Issue filed you can track the project / issue status via the git page

    also the FR (AKA datasheet is available to be shared privately if you should request so) it could help in your chase of e85 conversion
    Last edited by zarboz; 05-21-2019 at 05:33 PM.
    I like to pretend I know stuff

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,214
    My Cars
    1999 BMW 540iA
    Quote Originally Posted by zarboz View Post
    No, that should be sufficient information. Issue filed you can track the project / issue status via the git page

    also the FR (AKA datasheet is available to be shared privately if you should request so) it could help in your chase of e85 conversion
    Yea I'm keeping on eye out on the github. Noticed it took you only couple of minutes to notice my submit . FR would be great, I've tried digging one up, but haven't been able to find one. There was few FR for sale, but price was kinda steep and the site didn't look that promising to be honest, so I passed on that. I noticed there is FR on git, but desc said not to ask for password yet. FR would make e85 conversion quite a bit easier. So could you send me the pass in PM?
    Last edited by Spirit Force; 05-21-2019 at 06:01 PM.

  23. #123
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Castle Rock CO
    Posts
    264
    My Cars
    1990 325is, 1998 740i
    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit Force View Post
    Yea I'm keeping on eye out on the github. Noticed it took you only couple of minutes to notice my submit . FR would be great, I've tried digging one up, but haven't been able to find one. There was few FR for sale, but price was kinda steep and the site didn't look that promising to be honest, so I passed on that. I noticed there is FR on git, but desc said not to ask for password yet. FR would make e85 conversion quite a bit easier. So could you send me the pass in PM?

    Yah the FR was a spend I felt like was worth making in the concept it would be shared with like minded individuals to further the community efforts of mods to our cars.


    Check your PM sir
    I like to pretend I know stuff

  24. #124
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,214
    My Cars
    1999 BMW 540iA
    Quote Originally Posted by zarboz View Post
    Yah the FR was a spend I felt like was worth making in the concept it would be shared with like minded individuals to further the community efforts of mods to our cars.


    Check your PM sir
    Thank you sir. Yea, the Me7.2 platform was used only for few years so there really wasn't any good community projects on it.

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    58
    My Cars
    540 m sport
    Updated my dme but im not sure if i selected a different version... I used zusb: 7533592 I saw GearGrinder mentioned a different one.

    Software version Entries shows: 0111950069012402. So this would mean version 6901 and the tune version as 2402. Have you ever seen a tune version without letters?

    Doesn't seem to match up with the stage 2 tune file provided. It does match up with a stage 1 tune i found and the 6901 and 6902 bin files.
    The stage 2 tune file is 011195006901S41E. If they are both based off the 6901 version why dont they match up in some values? (the x and y values are different)

    thanks!

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