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Thread: e46 M3 SMG - P1717 On Period Hydraulic Unit

  1. #1
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    e46 M3 SMG - P1717 On Period Hydraulic Unit

    In Short: SMG drops out of gear, but only when the car is warmed up (even in cold weather ~45F).

    Hopefully some of the experts will chime in on this issue, but I'll try to summarize below what I've found on troubleshooting this issue.

    -Accumulator test passed with 34.8 bar
    -Hydraulic pressure has no issue hitting 80 bar when switched on manually in INPA
    -Car drops out of gear when the hydraulic pressure goes below 42 bar
    -Pump takes 5 - 7 seconds to prime when opening the door after the car is cooled off.
    -Doing parked 1-2-1 shifting, I can shift about 6 times before the pump kicks on
    -Doing parked 1-2-1 shifting continually, the pump will run for about 7 seconds the first few times, then it increases up to 12 seconds
    -Gear display on dash is always accurate. When it drops out of gear it immediately shows '0'

    I'm open to doing other troubleshooting before I start throwing parts at this.

    I'm beginning to wonder if there is some issue with electrical load, or the pump motor is getting tired during heavy use, which is exaggerated by heat? My hypothesis is that if the current draw is constant even over extended periods then there's not a wiring issue. But, if the current increases or drops perhaps there's a wire / contact that is heating up or may be frayed. If the wire heats up, the resistance increases, the current drops, the motor can't work as effectively, and it won't pump as quickly.

  2. #2
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    I did some more testing and I noticed it takes much longer for the pump to build pressure when the engine is up to temp than when it's cold. I'm waiting on a current sense resistor to ship to me so I can accurately measure the current from the pump and take a reading off of that with my oscilloscope before ruling out the motor entirely.

  3. #3
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    Well, after testing it looks like the motor is almost definitely bad. The signal coming off of it looks terrible compared to the snapshots from this article. I'm amazed it even works. I also included a picture of how I have my testing set up by running the resistor in place of the 40A fuse.

    That's a .01 Ohm (you read that right) 100 W resistor.

    https://imgur.com/a/oWFi0Vg

  4. #4
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Wow, that pump is pulling a lot of power down. I am surprised that it didn't trip a fuse, or put up a red flag in INPA.

    I would have to say the long prime times once warm would have been the only clue to a bad/failing pump.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
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    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
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  5. #5
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    The measurement for the pump motor is about 12.5 Amps RMS. I picked such a low value resistor so it would be drawing an insignificant amount of current compared to the motor. It's never blown the 40A fuse so it's not drawing an awful amount.

    Thinking about it now, I need to go back and check the color of the fluid to make sure the seller I bought it from (it was a small used car 'lot' online) didn't put something other than the CHF in. There was fluid all over the intake manifold next to the SMG reservoir when I got the car in January and I bet they put in something like brake fluid. The fluid reservoir was full and I had no problems the first month with the SMG, so initially I didn't think anything of it.
    Last edited by Aeko; 02-15-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  6. #6
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Fluid properties are very important, for if they "topped" it off with the wrong stuff, that too can cause problems. Since you will be replacing the pump anyway, at this time it will be a moot point.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  7. #7
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    The fluid looks lime green like everyone says CHF is, so I'm guessing it's not contaminated. I'll probably try to swap whatever is in the reservoir after I do the pump just while I'm in there. My theory was that the incorrect fluid may have been causing stress on the pump and accelerated failure.

    I already have a new pump on order from SMG Society. It looks identical to the Burkhart engineering pump so we will see how it goes!

  8. #8
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    Received the replacement motor, but it has been a nightmare trying to get the motor out from under the car because I half-stripped one of the screws holding the motor into the hydraulic unit. At this point I either can try to do something like JB weld a bit into the screw and pray I can back it out, or pull the entire hydraulic unit. Thoughts on this? The system is already at 0 bar so it would be safe to pull it. I had planned on doing the relocation at some point but I want to make sure the new motor resolves the gear drop first.




    Also, if I just want to pull the hydraulic unit, reinstall, and bleed, is this the procedure? And is step 6 necessary?


    Make sure the car is stone cold and parked up on level ground for these tests for best results.


    1. Plug car into laptop, open INPA and turn the car ignition on but dont start it.
    2. Press F9 to open special tests.
    3. Double click on 'SMG Adaptation for Sequential M-Gearbox'.
    4. Press F1 then F8 to bleed gearbox actuator and let it run through the test.
    5. Press F2 then F8 to bleed the clutch and let it run through the test.
    6. Press F3 then F8 to start a complete adaptation and let it run through the program (takes quite a while so make sure your battery is good or you have a power pack on it)


    And that is the SMG Adaptations all done.

  9. #9
    dworthy's Avatar
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    I would say Yes to step 8, as the ECU needs to know the parameters it needs to shift.

    How much of the head is sticking out? You can always try to grab it from the outside. Also another thought is to use the next size up or maybe a hex to get that bolt out.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  10. #10
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    Pump motor is out. Thank God for Speedouts. However, I need a pin release tool now

  11. #11
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    Finally got the motor in, everything is tested and working great. Did another check with the oscilloscope and the signal looks super clean. I think I might take some time to write up a DIY on process of elimination for testing the pump motor and also how to set up the oscilloscope test since the article I found didn't describe that at all.

    2019-03-09 13.05.05.jpg

  12. #12
    dworthy's Avatar
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    Good to hear, even though the picture is upside down . If you do a DIY, I would put it in the E-46 forum, as the SMG was also offered in the 325i/330i.
    Darin
    Current:
    16 220i Active Tourer Platinsilver MET (C08)/Dakota Black (PDSW), P7ACA, P7LDA, P7LHA, P9BDA, 6sp Manual - Wife's new toy!
    05 325it Electric Red(438)/Gray(N6TT) ZCW, ZSP 5sp Manual Back set cover, trunk mat, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield, and mud flaps! Mr. Wagon My new Winter car.
    05 M3 Imolarot II(405)/Gray(N5TT) ZCW, ZPP 6sp Manual C.F. Lip, CSL diffuser, SSK, Euro Infra-Rot front windshield and a trunk liner! Mr. Go_Fast Stored for the Winter
    Past:
    95 318is Montreal Blue Met (297)/Beige(K1SN) RIP, killed by an Idiot.
    84 M535i gray market Burgandy Rot Met/Black Leather Lowered by Intrax on bilies, poly everywhere, B&B cat back system, K&N, and a hitch! Da Beast - Still running w/400k+!
    91 316i euro Tizianrot/Gray cloth - E-36 w/M-40 RIP, but great on gas! Best was 38 MPG
    82 528i euro Saphire Blue Met/Blue Leather RIP
    79 525 euro Green/Green RIP
    79 318 Silver/Black - The first one that got it all started
    M-Flight Member

  13. #13
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    I plan on it! And for some reason it only uploaded upside down here??? I cross-posted on M3Forum and it was right side up there haha.

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