No Start, No error codes after removing battery and charging it.

**pennybond** · 02-06-2019, 02:09 AM

2003 530i, I thought I had a low battery as voltage was 12.25V. We had really cold weather and I had not driven the car in 3+ weeks. I charged the battery and reinstalled. Car will turn over but will not fire.

There are no trouble codes present during a scan.
The OBC says the range is 42 miles so the tank is low.

Could I just be out of gas?

There have been no issues with the car and has been running great.

Thanks!

**Chedley** · 02-06-2019, 05:51 AM

Yes, it could be you are out of gas. Refill your tank to half. Also, Check your fuel lines, pump, and filter.
Make sure the battery is fully charged : it should read +12.6 volts.
And try again.

**jclausen** · 02-06-2019, 06:26 AM

Don't run your fuel down so low the gas helps cool the electric fuel pump

**JimLev** · 02-06-2019, 09:53 AM

What does the gas gauge read?

**geargrinder** · 02-06-2019, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by jclausen

Don't run your fuel down so low the gas helps cool the electric fuel pump

While I used to believe that, apparently it is an old-mechanics tale.... If there was ever truth to it (which there was probably for older electric pumps with hard-wired ignition relays... and even then the probably was more like never run them STONE DRY) apparently its not a concern anymore. Unless I suppose you somehow force the pump to indeed run stone dry but modern ECU's generally won't do that aka relays don't come on and stay on with the ignition on...

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by JimLev

What does the gas gauge read?

Might be worth trying the cluster left / right gauge read. If there's no gas in the right side of the tank, the suction pump ironically can't move the gas over from the left...

On other hand, would be odd to run out of gas just sitting still if it "ran when parked". Unless there's obv a leak or something.

**pennybond** · 02-06-2019, 12:10 PM

Thanks for the responses. The gas gauge reads almost empty, light is on. I've gotten about 330 miles (city & highway driving) on this tank so maybe I stretched it a bit. Also the car is sitting at a slight angle with the left of the car lower than the right. There are no gas leaks. After work I'm getting a new gas can and heading to the gas station.
What Test Number is the Cluster right/left gauge read?

**mattmar1** · 02-06-2019, 12:17 PM

have you got fuel pressure at the rail?

**pennybond** · 02-06-2019, 12:30 PM

Haven't checked that yet. Car is at home, I'm at work.

**JimLev** · 02-06-2019, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by pennybond

Also the car is sitting at a slight angle with the left of the car lower than the right. There are no gas leaks. After work I'm getting a new gas can and heading to the gas station.
What Test Number is the Cluster right/left gauge read?

With the car on an angle you may need 2-3 gallons. After you put gas in it, turn the key from position 0 to 2 without starting it to prime the system. Do this a few times before you try to start it.

Test #6 will show fuel levels in both sides of the tank.
http://mr-fix.info/bmw-e39-obc-hidde...agnostic-mode/

**pennybond** · 02-06-2019, 03:03 PM

Ok, thanks for that tip!

And the testing instructions!

**Jaaap** · 02-06-2019, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by geargrinder

While I used to believe that, apparently it is an old-mechanics tale.... If there was ever truth to it (which there was probably for older electric pumps with hard-wired ignition relays... and even then the probably was more like never run them STONE DRY) apparently its not a concern anymore. Unless I suppose you somehow force the pump to indeed run stone dry but modern ECU's generally won't do that aka relays don't come on and stay on with the ignition on...

Oh no this is still very much true.
The fuel pump on my e38 740i died when it was (very) low on petrol.

**crazy4trains** · 02-06-2019, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jaaap

Oh no this is still very much true.
The fuel pump on my e38 740i died when it was (very) low on petrol.

Proves nothing.

**geargrinder** · 02-06-2019, 09:54 PM

Correct. My last fuel pump died on the garden state parkway in Friday rush hour traffic. Therefore you should never drive in the garden state at rush hour on a Friday cuz yer fuel pump will die.

Now there’s good reasons to avoid the GSP at Friday rush hour but fuel pumps ain’t one of em.

(The applicable rule here is: “correlation is not causation”)

**pennybond** · 02-07-2019, 12:19 AM

Ok so I had high hopes. I went and purchased a 5 gallon gas can and filled it with super. I went home and put it in the tank. I turned the key 4 times from the 0 to 2 position for priming and the car would not fire. It turned over but would not start. Normally it starts pretty much instantly. The starter seemed a bit sluggish so I checked volts and they were back down to 12.12. I took the battery to Autozone and it tested bad. I purchased a new AGM type and took it home and installed it. Again the engine turns over but will not fire. Am I missing any steps for installing a NEW battery? Does it need to be coded? I am still not getting any trouble codes with my reader in any of the systems. I have a Chinese hand held (not INPA or other more robust software) that has been very useful in the past. It allows you to read and erase trouble codes and see realtime data in the individual systems and is a bit more advanced than just a P code reader. Arrrgg!! Any ideas? Thanks!

**JimLev** · 02-07-2019, 12:38 AM

No coding is required.
Can you here the fuel pump run when you turn the key to position 2?
It will only run for 2sec and then shut off so have the trunk open, radio and heater off.
Better if you can have a helper with a head in or under the trunk to listen.

**pennybond** · 02-07-2019, 12:48 AM

I believe I do hear the pump running for a few seconds when I turn the key to position 2. Is the pump in the tank? The sound seems as if it is coming from underneath the car when sitting in the drivers seat.

**JimLev** · 02-07-2019, 01:19 AM

Yes, FP is in tank under the car, if you pull up the bottom of the back seat you'll have access to the pump.
Do you have access to a fuel pressure tester?

**pennybond** · 02-07-2019, 01:31 AM

I have a gauge but it only has fuel hoses with screw clamps, not sure if I have a screw type connector for the M54 fuel rail. I'm used to M30's and M20's. In fact I have mounted a fuel gauge in the fuel lines for my 85 735i. It was such a pain to disconnect and reconnect the fuel lines whenever I needed to check pressure. Looks like a trip to Habor Freight is in order tomorrow for a new gauge or connector I can attach to my current fuel gauge. What pressure should I see at the fuel rail if all is well? If the pressure is low or non existent I assume that points to the pump or something that activates the pump?

**Jenbme** · 02-07-2019, 01:45 AM

IF in fact the fuel pump did go bad because of being low on fuel and it is replaced couldn't there still end up being a possible issue of the rolling codes for the DME and EWS mismatching due to each attempt of starting the car?

**pennybond** · 02-07-2019, 01:57 AM

Im just guessing but if that were happening the engine wouldn't turn over, correct? Or are there a certain number of tries you get before this happens? It seems logical if the key is communicating and has the same code a faulty system component causing the engine to not start shouldn't activate the imobilizer.

I had this issue when my original key gave out. The key would turn in the ignition but nothing would happen. I purchase an AK90+ and bought an Ebay key and programmed it. The Ebay key has been working great for a year.

**Chedley** · 02-07-2019, 03:12 AM

No, No,..do not get confused. This is NOT a key/DME/EWS problem. Your key is fine, as it turns over the engine.

You should read a fuel pressure of 35 to 45 PSI at the fuel rail, if all is well.

**DennisG01** · 02-07-2019, 09:12 AM

I recently turned into an "expert" (largely due to this forum!) in fuel pump access. I can now get my hands on my fuel pump in about 4 minutes.

If you are positive you can hear the fuel pump, good. But there is a super easy way to check if it is at least functioning and no special tools are required. You can remove the fuel pump relay in the trunk fuse location. Then jumper the proper pins and it will activate the fuel pump. If that works, you know the wiring from the relay to the pump, and the pump, are good. I only have a few minutes to type this response, but I found (again with help here on this forum) threads with more detail and exactly which pins to jump. I'd have to be physically looking at my relay to tell you which ones and I'm not near the car right now. But I thought I'd at least quickly throw this out for you.

**geargrinder** · 02-07-2019, 09:15 AM

Ha ha yesh but it COULD be a EWS->DME problem in this case! Definitely not a key->EWS as has been made painfully clear elsewhere in stupider threads than this.

However there's no reason the EWS-DME should have gotten out of sync even with multiple fail-to-start attempts. That should only happen if you try to start with one or the other disconnected (well or some other very not possible scenarios like either module was reset or something...) so it'd be unusual, unless the battery was super duper low when you did try to start it at one point. But it will show a code for that immediately and very clearly.

**mattmar1** · 02-07-2019, 09:20 AM

for basic fp pressure testing, a pencil type tire gauge used at the schrader valve on the fuel rail will give you enough info to know if the system has pressure or not.

**JimLev** · 02-07-2019, 09:26 AM

Dennis, the FP relay should be behind the glovebox, not in the trunk like my car. The location changed in 2001 I believe.
Penny, fuel pressure should be closer to 40-45 with the key in position 2 as the pump will only run for 2 seconds. While cranking the engine the pump runs continuously so pressure should be at least 50 PSI.
Just curious, how many miles on the fuel filter?