$218 for alignment? E39

[Sleepyhead97]

97 BMW 528I 209K miles. Stock.
Anyone have specs for i6 alignment?

My local BMW shop wants $218 for an alignment. This is ridiculous. I have 2 cars that need this service. I found an Indy shop that will do the alignment. Obviously they are not BMW techs but they are happy to try. Had one aligned last night, I think it's off on rear toe as it is .33 each side.

Thinking of buying 80lb concrete bags for weight and have them try again. Does anyone have any others ideas? I know BMW shop alignments are the pinnacle, but the price? Comon......

[jclausen]

Call local shops and see who's good for the most part the dealer will always cost the most on everything

[Sleepyhead97]

Other bmw shop 1hr away. Their reviews are horrid.

[Sleepyhead97]

Found this. Does it look right? I have 18" wheels. How much will it affect? e39AlignmentSpec.jpg

[ross1]

Do you have an independent BMW specialist near you? Even one without an alignment rack will have a connection to someone that does and can be trusted.
Under normal circumstances my car would never grace the service bays at PepBoys but a neighbor who owns his own shop without an alignment rack sends his car there and he's been satisfied with their work(they know they are working for a pro so no hanky-panky upselling BS).
They have done one for me with good results and they'll be getting another in a few days, hopefully also with good results.
Riding my friend's coat tails I pay $50

[Sleepyhead97]

I had pep boys do the 03 and 95 but I guess they don't want to do it anymore. I have a guy and shop they are willing to try. Just need specs confirmed. Planning on putting 160lbs x 3 in cab and 50lbs in rear.

[Sleepyhead97]

Current adjustment of car. See anything terribly wrong?
20190201_172953.jpg

Here are the Other i6 alignment specs I found. bmw_e39_alignment_specs_i6_sedan.jpg

[1999 540i m]

Current adjustment of car. See anything terribly wrong?
20190201_172953.jpg

Yes it's a GMC, you should have bought a toyota

[Sleepyhead97]

Yes it's a GMC, you should have bought a toyota

Probably. I have three bimmers, this is not news. Alignments cost $129 just two years ago. Apparently they got a new shop manager at Garlyn Shelton BMW who likes raping customers.

[Sleepyhead97]

Just got the other bimmer done. Put on new control arms. Looks good! I weighed driver, passenger, rear seat with 140lbs (80lb and 60lb concrete bags stacked) and a 50 sandbag in trunk (would rather a 40lb bag but not available)

Anyways.
Check it out. Oh and the alignment was $50, tax time special!
20190207_193620.jpg

[Pavlo]

Your front tires will wear on the inside at those specs. Rear is nice though.

Considering one pair of tires is $300 or more, I don't know why you all complain so much about the cost of an alignment by a competent person who is using a $30k+ machine.

[Sleepyhead97]

Your front tires will wear on the inside at those specs. Rear is nice though.

Considering one pair of tires is $300 or more, I don't know why you all complain so much about the cost of an alignment by a competent person who is using a $30k+ machine.

Little bit out on front. Yep. I'll ask him about it. I know alignments are critical to tie wear but it's all labor no materials.

Competent mechanics are getting extremely rare. Even the BMW shop near me has jacked two of my alignments. I don't trust bmw mechanics any more than others. I can't justify spending the money on an alignment that costs 2.5x more, when the same equipment is used at both shops. Machines are Hunter. Just weight is the only difference. Hell, the guy told me he scans the vin and BMW specs come up. It's not rocket science, and because the mech is wearing a BMW service uniform doesn't make him competent.

But I understand what you are saying.

[Sleepyhead97]

Took red car back in and guy nailed it. But need to get some parts.. Worn out Ball joints. But it drives great.

[ross1]

I had pep boys do the 03 and 95 but I guess they don't want to do it anymore. I have a guy and shop they are willing to try. Just need specs confirmed. Planning on putting 160lbs x 3 in cab and 50lbs in rear.

Weighting the seats is a waste of time. Do you always drive with three 160# people in the car and 50# in the trunk? A 5 MPH side wind will effect the tracking more than this silly, overdone procedure.
FWIW Pep Boys just did car #2 and it needed to redone as the wheel wasn't straight. Depends on who does the work

[Sleepyhead97]

Weighting the seats is a waste of time. Do you always drive with three 160# people in the car and 50# in the trunk? A 5 MPH side wind will effect the tracking more than this silly, overdone procedure.
FWIW Pep Boys just did car #2 and it needed to redone as the wheel wasn't straight. Depends on who does the work

Thought this controversy was solved. Cars are weighed to account for downforce.
Yeah planning on taking back, but not to pep boys. Found a local shop with a mechanic that worked for Audi. He likes working on germam cars.

And you can tell the difference from a car aligned with and without weight.

[geargrinder]

Late to this party but WTF with the GMC Sierra alignment? If the dude setup the machine and put the wrong car into the computer, then run away fast I don't care how cheap it is. Yeah a GMC Sierra set of alignment specs prob wouldn't be too good on an E39.

For the most part unless you're asking for what custom specs do people like, there's no reason to ask for factory specs because anybody with a half decent rig has it all loaded with every single car ever made and ready to go.

Just got the other bimmer done. Put on new control arms. Looks good! I weighed driver, passenger, rear seat with 140lbs (80lb and 60lb concrete bags stacked) and a 50 sandbag in trunk (would rather a 40lb bag but not available)

Weighting the seats is a waste of time. Do you always drive with three 160# people in the car and 50# in the trunk? A 5 MPH side wind will effect the tracking more than this silly, overdone procedure.
FWIW Pep Boys just did car #2 and it needed to redone as the wheel wasn't straight. Depends on who does the work

Yeah. I don't agree with weighting being a waste, but I do agree with questioning this specific situation.

All your driving you got 3 people and a crapload of stuff in the trunk? If not then your camber is gonna be out all the time because in reality the car is riding well higher than that. Weigh to what you actually weigh and how you actually drive the car around. I always go in with a good tank full of gas because I'm a drive-with-plenty-of-gas type of dude. I don't carry heavy cargo much so no cargo weighting. They then weight for me in the drivers seat and thats about it. If you only drive w/ the wife/GF/BF/pool-boy in the passenger seat, well then indeed weight that.

But hey - maybe sleepyhead does drive around with 2 bags of manure in the trunk and his GF and poolboy riding along at all times and coincidentally they all happen to weight the same amount (or maybe they play "chinese firedrill" at stop lights a lot and 140lbs is the average weight, in which case... I'm in full support, makes sense, best possible work around there...).

[Sleepyhead97]

Your replies speak for themselves. Car needs weight.

[crazy4trains]

Your front tires will wear on the inside at those specs. Rear is nice though.

Why do you say that? Please elaborate.

[ross1]

Late to this party but WTF with the GMC Sierra alignment? If the dude setup the machine and put the wrong car into the computer, then run away fast I don't care how cheap it is. Yeah a GMC Sierra set of alignment specs prob wouldn't be too good on an E39.

For the most part unless you're asking for what custom specs do people like, there's no reason to ask for factory specs because anybody with a half decent rig has it all loaded with every single car ever made and ready to go.





Yeah. I don't agree with weighting being a waste, but I do agree with questioning this specific situation.

All your driving you got 3 people and a crapload of stuff in the trunk? If not then your camber is gonna be out all the time because in reality the car is riding well higher than that. Weigh to what you actually weigh and how you actually drive the car around. I always go in with a good tank full of gas because I'm a drive-with-plenty-of-gas type of dude. I don't carry heavy cargo much so no cargo weighting. They then weight for me in the drivers seat and thats about it. If you only drive w/ the wife/GF/BF/pool-boy in the passenger seat, well then indeed weight that.

But hey - maybe sleepyhead does drive around with 2 bags of manure in the trunk and his GF and poolboy riding along at all times and coincidentally they all happen to weight the same amount (or maybe they play "chinese firedrill" at stop lights a lot and 140lbs is the average weight, in which case... I'm in full support, makes sense, best possible work around there...).

I had a brief conversation about weighting with the fellow that did the "tweak" on my second trip. He doesn't do it unless a customer insists(also worked at a shop that plain refused to do BMWs for this reason). We both thought it silly to be so precise about replicating a situation that seldom exists.
Plus, look around, who weighs 160# anymore? The formerly hot TV news girls here have even been traded for some elephant.

[geargrinder]

I had a brief conversation about weighting with the fellow that did the "tweak" on my second trip. He doesn't do it unless a customer insists(also worked at a shop that plain refused to do BMWs for this reason). We both thought it silly to be so precise about replicating a situation that seldom exists.
Plus, look around, who weighs 160# anymore? The formerly hot TV news girls here have even been traded for some elephant.

LOL.

Yeah, I still do it based on the "why not get it as close as possible to ideal".

I think the probably more relevant argument is if the specs you use are for weighted or unweighted. BMW very clearly specifies 'weighted' but supposedly the machine mfrs have tweaked the numbers in their databases for unweighted, and, that seems probably accurate enough for most street car people who just want the car to drive nice and not wear out tires. If the argument is say BMW-weighted-specs-and-weighted-car vs Hunters-database-unweighted-specs-and-unweighted-car... yeah... I would bet theres nearly no real world difference there... (Again... I still do it myself... but... you know... Compulsive car stuff...)

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Your replies speak for themselves. Car needs weight.

No idea what you're saying here.

[Sleepyhead97]

Downforce is the reason BMW specifies weights in car. NOT the bodies in vehicle. You can tell the difference at highway speeds.

[ross1]

That's rediculous

[geargrinder]

Meh. fantasy poop.

Downforce won't significantly compress the suspension except at very high speeds. Alignment is setup to be correct for the range of normal driving speeds, the vast majority of which is done well below the impact of any downforce.
The factory weighting routine significantly loads the suspension statically to account for some kind of ballpark of passengers and cargo and to establish a "reference point". That is all.

Unless you're Setho. In which case maybe you have more downforce.

[rdl]

The point of weighting the car for an alignment is to get the ride height to a know position - "normal position" in BMW speak. That's important since alignment angles will change as ride height changes as a car is loaded &/or unloaded. I recall that someone (CNN/CN90 I think) reported years ago that the difference between weighted and unweighted was ~1 deg in rear camber. Theoretically, BMW could have set specs for the car on a hoist with the suspension in full droop - it's simple kinematics to figure out what angles will be as ride height changes. (or would be for BMW, not so much for us LOL) In all this we're relying on the chassis engineers having worked out that if alignment is X at "normal position" then it will be acceptable in all other weightings/heights. Just too bad they didn't chose to set the specs at an unweighted height.

A further wrinkle in this weighting business is that TIS says that if ride height is out of spec with the specified weights (68 kg each front seat, 68 kg rear seat, 21 kg in middle trunk, full gas tank) that repairs to the suspension MUST be done before alignment.

FWIW, I recall a thread of several years ago where someone described what he'd been told by an engineer who had worked at BMW's test track. They weighted the cars to ride height spec with weights on the shock towers and trunk until in ride height spec. No bother to them if is took 10 kg or 100 kg. That seemed pretty sensible to me. I've used that method since and the car tracks and corners well and no unusual tire wear.

[Sleepyhead97]

Makes sense RDL. Thanks for chiming in.