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Thread: e21 No Start, Any Help is GREATLY Appreciated

  1. #26
    Join Date
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    BMW 320i ('83), BMW 318ti ('98), BMW 3.0 CSi ('72)
    PM me your cell phone number and I will text you a picture of the fuel pump assembly off my '82 and '83--which are the same.

    Also, I live only about 5-10 miles from you so I can drive one of my cars by you or you can stop by and take a look for yourself.

  2. #27
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    IMG_0195.JPG

    Found a picture of the fuel pump assembly just before I installed it on my '82.

  3. #28
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    Check these two links.

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=16_0119

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=16_0151

    When combined, they make up the fuel pump assembly as pictured.
    Last edited by Beam318ti; 04-19-2019 at 12:23 AM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescassidy View Post
    I was under the impression that the accumulator sat adjacent to the fuel distributor... I guess I'm wrong.. Whatever I thought it was I've tried my best to capture it (see photos). I want to point out that this car is an '83 and when looking at RealOEM.com, the same diagram you've attached shows that the production dates are "Up To 09/1978" see here. Real OEM doesn't allow for me to choose the year 1983 for the production month/year and only goes as high as 1982 from what I can tell. Either way, the diagram displayed when choosing 12/1982 displays this. Naturally, I'm a little confused. My car does have an in tank fuel pump, though I know that this contributes little towards the overall pressure of the system. I'd think that the additional fuel pump might free up the need for other components that you've all mentioned, but again I really have no idea. RealOEM has rarely failed me though...

    Can any of you confirm whether or not this is accurate? I see Beam318ti has an '83 - at least it says so in your profile, hopefully you know or can recall.

    Thanks again to everyone.

    Attachment 649786Attachment 649787Attachment 649788
    Edited: tough to tell from the pics (also does not help that I'm more of a 2.0 person), but the 'warm-up regulator' (wur) is attached to the engine block, has two fuel pipes and electric wires attached. There's also a 'frequency valve' piped to the fuel distributor (and return fuel to the tank) with wires attached.

    The '83 models were up to 12/82. I forget when the '83 model began... 9/82 or 10/82? It was a very short run.

    K-Jetronic fuel system pressure is ~68-72+ psi. Need a k-jet capable main (external) fuel pump. And 150+ psi FI hoses too!
    The in-tank fuel pump is commonly referred to as a 'lift pump', because that's all it does - lift the fuel to provide some 'head pressure' to the main (external) fuel pump. The in-tank pump was first retrofitted sometime in '78 (a recall), and then became standard on next models.
    Last edited by epmedia; 04-19-2019 at 02:18 AM.


    If you're trying to make me feel better about this scenario, give it up....

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beam318ti View Post
    Check these two links.

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=16_0119

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=16_0151

    When combined, they make up the fuel pump assembly as pictured.
    Yeah, after posting that I realized that those two together would produce the same diagram you sent me, but the part numbers for the pump, accumulator and filter are different between the two sets of years. I'll PM you my number and go from there - I need to get this sorted soon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by epmedia View Post
    Edited: tough to tell from the pics (also does not help that I'm more of a 2.0 person), but the 'warm-up regulator' (wur) is attached to the engine block, has two fuel pipes and electric wires attached. There's also a 'frequency valve' piped to the fuel distributor (and return fuel to the tank) with wires attached.

    The '83 models were up to 12/82. I forget when the '83 model began... 9/82 or 10/82? It was a very short run.

    K-Jetronic fuel system pressure is ~68-72+ psi. Need a k-jet capable main (external) fuel pump. And 150+ psi FI hoses too!
    The in-tank fuel pump is commonly referred to as a 'lift pump', because that's all it does - lift the fuel to provide some 'head pressure' to the main (external) fuel pump. The in-tank pump was first retrofitted sometime in '78 (a recall), and then became standard on next models.
    Ok cool, thanks for clarifying. I know it isn't easy to tell from the pictures but regardless this clearly isn't my issue.

  6. #31
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    Back again. So I managed to track down a complete external fuel pump assembly locally (see photos) and just installed it yesterday. Today I tried firing it up but to no avail. The car is cranking strong and is definitely combusting but won't turn over - it sounds like it's right there though and so I've been adjusting the idle mixture screw. I followed the FAQ description on how to set the adjustments back to base level by ear (turning the screw clockwise til you hear the injectors "whistle") but I did so with the injectors outside of the head out of fear that I might flood the engine. However when I reinstalled them they were spraying pretty strong (I know that's vague).

    So, another thing with this car is that when I bought the "new" engine for this car - the one that's currently installed, I received the wrong distributor with it and so had to replace it with the correct one for this engine. Now considering the state of things, I'm wondering if the ignition is timed correctly and whether or not that is having something to do with why it isn't turning over. I realize if the ignition timing is off the car can run poorly but will it prohibit a car from starting altogether?

    Thanks!

    IMG_5822.jpgIMG_5823.jpgIMG_5824.jpgIMG_5826.jpg

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescassidy View Post
    I received the wrong distributor with it and so had to replace it with the correct one for this engine. Now considering the state of things, I'm wondering if the ignition is timed correctly and whether or not that is having something to do with why it isn't turning over. I realize if the ignition timing is off the car can run poorly but will it prohibit a car from starting altogether?

    Thanks!
    Absolutely !

    If you post a pic of your distributor and spark plug wires .. and another one of the the inside of your distributor with the cap removed, distributor rotor in place and the dust shield removed (if fitted under the rotor) and the engine at Top Dead Centre with No1 cylinder on the compression stroke.
    Then I, or someone else her can probably tell you if the timing is off to any great degree.

    Cheers
    hmm .. Wonder what happens if I do this ...

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDAus View Post
    Absolutely !

    If you post a pic of your distributor and spark plug wires .. and another one of the the inside of your distributor with the cap removed, distributor rotor in place and the dust shield removed (if fitted under the rotor) and the engine at Top Dead Centre with No1 cylinder on the compression stroke.
    Then I, or someone else her can probably tell you if the timing is off to any great degree.

    Cheers
    Awesome, I will do that tonight or tomorrow and we'll go from there. You're all fantastic, thank you!

  9. #34
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    Here's a pic for reference

    click to enlarge
    80-83-dist.gif


    If you're trying to make me feel better about this scenario, give it up....

  10. #35
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    Ok, so I went ahead and set the first cylinder to TDC - not entirely sure if it's compression stroke or otherwise but I did remove the valve cover to ensure that both the intake and exhaust valves were closed. I took quite a few pictures so hopefully that'll suffice. I loosened the distributor nut so that I could swivel it a bit and line it up and it appears to be as it should.

    I have this "plug" (3rd and 4th picture from the left) that is part of the engine harness and I wasn't able to figure out where it plugs into, hoping one of you know what it is and where it plugs into. Also there is a tab that hangs off of the distributor (second photo from the left) and I'm not sure if there's something that should be plugged into that.

    IMG_5838.jpgIMG_5839.jpgIMG_5840.jpgIMG_5841.jpgIMG_5845.jpg
    Last edited by thescassidy; 05-07-2019 at 07:25 PM.

  11. #36
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    Could only attach 5 photos to the post, so here's more***

    IMG_5855.jpgIMG_5853.jpgIMG_5852.jpgIMG_5851.jpg

  12. #37
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    Instead of removing the valve cover to find the #1 compression stroke, I like to use a spare hose in the #1 spark plug hole and turn the engine by hand to feel for the compressed air. Of course, must turn the engine in it's normal rotation direction and it's easiest accomplished while all the spark plugs are removed. Even easier, if ample space in the driveway, is to put the transmission in 1st or 2nd gear and bump-roll the right front tire in forward direction (spark plugs removed here also)... I mention this because both valves are also closed near the TDC of the exhaust stroke too (minus a tiny bit of overlap).

    Just fyi: a more precise TDC mark is in the observation hole at the top of the transmission bell housing. The |T0 mark (on the flywheel) is tdc when the "|" is at the flat of the window. Note: it's usually difficult to see the marks in there, unless it's clean. Don't confuse the "|Z ball" with the "|T0" mark - the Z ball is for dynamic ignition timing...
    Last edited by epmedia; 05-08-2019 at 04:13 AM.


    If you're trying to make me feel better about this scenario, give it up....

  13. #38
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    So, after some more tinkering, I've realized I have two more things to consider: One is that the engine spins two revolutions before the distributor rotor makes one full revolution. So, at literally 180° from when everything is "lined up" as previously instructed, I can observe the |TO through the peephole on the bell housing and the innermost section of the crank pulley is aligned with the "knob" thing on the block. So, simply going off of |TO doesn't yield the same result - doing that provides a 50/50 chance that ignition timing is correct.

    Second is that I have absolutely no f*****g clue what order the ignition wires are supposed to be in and I can almost find nothing, anywhere, that gives an absolute answer. This is an incredible pain in the ass, there are so many variables involved here.

    I know the firing order is 1,3,4,2 for models post '80 (this is stamped on the valve cover) but I don't know how that correlates to the distributor cap.

    Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again to all who have contributed so far.

  14. #39
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    I hear your frustration! This can definitely be incredibly frustrating. Breathe deep and keep up the good work!

    Epmedia's post #34 above has numbers on it indicating where the plug wires for each cylinder go in relation to the distributor - (imagine if the cap were on). Does that help?

    I don't know if anything should be attached to the little tab - maybe an extra grounding wire?
    Last edited by cgifool; 05-14-2019 at 03:03 PM.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescassidy View Post
    So, after some more tinkering, I've realized I have two more things to consider: One is that the engine spins two revolutions before the distributor rotor makes one full revolution. So, at literally 180° from when everything is "lined up" as previously instructed, I can observe the |TO through the peephole on the bell housing and the innermost section of the crank pulley is aligned with the "knob" thing on the block. So, simply going off of |TO doesn't yield the same result - doing that provides a 50/50 chance that ignition timing is correct.

    Second is that I have absolutely no f*****g clue what order the ignition wires are supposed to be in and I can almost find nothing, anywhere, that gives an absolute answer. This is an incredible pain in the ass, there are so many variables involved here.

    I know the firing order is 1,3,4,2 for models post '80 (this is stamped on the valve cover) but I don't know how that correlates to the distributor cap.

    Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again to all who have contributed so far.

    Apologies for not getting back to you sooner ... had some family health issues taking up most of my time, but now all is well.

    Umm ... I should have explained more clearly in my earlier post above the photos. The photo of the inside of the distributor was to see if the dist, was 180 degrees out. Your photos show it is aligned properly. The photo of the ignition leads was to see if they were in the right order ... unfortunately because I wasn't clear ... you pics didn't show the plug end of the leads ...sorry about that

    The pic I've attached shows which leads go where on an electronic distributor with anti-clockwise rotation.

    And to be fair to Robert (epmedia) the pic he posted back in post # 34 .. the blue numbers on the pic are the cylinder numbers of the plug leads. (oops ..just realised cgifool has all ready pointed this out).

    I've learnt the the hard way that the reality of good fault finding is that it can incredibly tedious. You start with the simplest solutions and work one by one through all the possibilities before moving on to the next most likely cause. You just have to hang in there.


    Hope this gets you back on track

    Cheers
    Attached Images Attached Images
    hmm .. Wonder what happens if I do this ...

  16. #41
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    Well gentlemen, I have at long last fired this sucker up and she's running alright for not moving in God knows how long. I should have paid better attention to the pic that epmedia had posted, it did indeed show the correct order for where the wires plug into. In the midst of my frustration, I didn't notice that.

    No need to apologize, GDAus, some rando on the e21 forums should certainly take backseat to any pressing issues in your life. I sincerely thank you for taking the time out to help me through this when you found the time though!

    That being said, I'll try and update (need be) of anything else that arises now that it's driving around. I've noticed the brake pedal is very soft and that there is a bit of a shimmy up front when it does eventually begin to stop. The battery light also stays illuminated when the car is off too... but I will do my research before asking for any more help.

    Thanks again!

    -Sean

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cgifool View Post
    I hear your frustration! This can definitely be incredibly frustrating. Breathe deep and keep up the good work!

    Epmedia's post #34 above has numbers on it indicating where the plug wires for each cylinder go in relation to the distributor - (imagine if the cap were on). Does that help?

    I don't know if anything should be attached to the little tab - maybe an extra grounding wire?
    Hey man, yes that did absolutely help!
    Last edited by thescassidy; 05-15-2019 at 06:04 PM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescassidy View Post
    Well gentlemen, I have at long last fired this sucker up and she's running alright for not moving in God knows how long.

    Thanks again!

    -Sean

    - - - Updated - - -


    Wooo hoo!!!

  18. #43
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    Cool

    Firing Order

    0900c15280064f4b.gif



    Randy

  19. #44
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    Cool

    I'd check the timing chain tensioner plug and make sure its in specifications 22-29 ft lbs, overlooked item that has plenty to do with idling properly. Start at 25 ft lbs and go from there, mine is lower than 25 ft lbs as the deck height of the Cylinder Head is really good or not faced down a lot to get it level, my older one was at 25 ft lbs.

    Randy

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by thescassidy View Post
    I have this "plug" (3rd and 4th picture from the left) that is part of the engine harness and I wasn't able to figure out where it plugs into, hoping one of you know what it is and where it plugs into. Also there is a tab that hangs off of the distributor (second photo from the left) and I'm not sure if there's something that should be plugged into that.
    It's always such a relief to get an engine going again

    So the éxtra"plug looks like it should be for a "speed" relay that is fitted to the lambda equipped cars. It's mounted somewhere on the firewall behind the engine. It was probabley removed when the carby was fitted. it works with a Wide Open Throttle switch to but the lamnda controller into an extra enrichment mode for high speed acceleration.

    You may also be missing and extra external temperature sensor that also proves cold start enrichment for starting under some conditions.

    See this post ...


    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...2#post30220352

    Cheers
    Attached Images Attached Images
    hmm .. Wonder what happens if I do this ...

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