Key won't turn

**danmurphymn** · 01-30-2019, 11:42 AM

I've been having this problem for a while, but it has been getting worse. My ignition won't unlock for a while. I normally put my key in, take it out and put it in the other way and eventually the key turns. It doesn't have to do with the steering wheel location or park seemingly. Just the key.
Today it is really bad. It took me turning the key back and forth 20+ times to get the ignition to turn. It doesn't help that it's -28 here today with a windchill of -57

ha

Any idea what's going on?

**geargrinder** · 01-31-2019, 10:32 AM

Dan - Got exact same problem. Only happens in the super freezing temps. IME its not the tumblers / lock core part. The steering column/key interlock thing itself is sticky, and, my theory is - because of the temp factor - that its an old grease problem. I've seen the grease in the steering columns and by now that stuff is usually crusty hard anyway let alone during polar vortex weather. From my experience there's no way to get to the area concerned without taking the column lock apart which is a moderate sized project and requires dremel slicing slots into security bolts etc. I intend to get to that sometime - but when the weather is nice to do it the problem goes away completely so I'm easily optimistically convinced its not an issue!

My tempo workaround technique tip for you is, in addition to rotating the key back and forth, focus on multiple push-in bumps. In-out in-out a few times.
Tried to think of a good way to describe and can't do much better that "think awkward teenage fingerbang" motions.
That combined with a little rotational wiggle usually gets it to go for me.

**DennisG01** · 01-31-2019, 10:41 AM

When it's locked-up, is it locked "hard"... like there's metal stopping it from turning? Meaning, it's a hard, abrupt "stop" the turning of the key? If yes, as mentioned, it sounds like the interlock spring/ball. However, unless we're talking about two different things, it is actually a pretty easy repair - maybe 20-30 minutes. It's just a matter of removing the lower column cover a drilling a quick hole in the right spot to remove the spring/ball. If you can live without the steering wheel lock feature, then this might be an avenue for you. I think I found the initial information about this in the DIY section, IIRC.

**djb2** · 01-31-2019, 10:41 AM

Do you have multiple keys, or just one?
Does the key work reliably in the door cylinder?

If the lock cylinder itself is going bad, you should replace it before it's no longer possible to remove easily. But that's not the common problem.

There are two known problems with the ignition switch: a connecting piece breaks, and the switch itself breaks. Check eBay for repair pieces.

**theWalkinator** · 01-31-2019, 10:49 AM

Just got a call from wife, same thing happens to my 2002 540i, key won't turn, I have my wife tried turn steering wheel left and right, tried to move the shifter back and forth, I even had her rock the car, nothing works, so I told her to get a hair dryer to blow to the key hole. It was -4 F this morning so it is very cold, I guess either some moisture in side the car condense on the key lock cylinder got frozen or like someone said, grease is frozen? She is going to try the hair dryer trick later, will report back.

**geargrinder** · 01-31-2019, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by theWalkinator

Just got a call from wife, same thing happens to my 2002 540i, key won't turn, I have my wife tried turn steering wheel left and right, tried to move the shifter back and forth, I even had her rock the car, nothing works, so I told her to get a hair dryer to blow to the key hole. It was -4 F this morning so it is very cold, I guess either some moisture in side the car condense on the key lock cylinder got frozen or like someone said, grease is frozen? She is going to try the hair dryer trick later, will report back.

Tell her to try the fingerbang motion. But figure out another word to describe it.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by DennisG01

When it's locked-up, is it locked "hard"... like there's metal stopping it from turning? Meaning, it's a hard, abrupt "stop" the turning of the key? If yes, as mentioned, it sounds like the interlock spring/ball. However, unless we're talking about two different things, it is actually a pretty easy repair - maybe 20-30 minutes. It's just a matter of removing the lower column cover a drilling a quick hole in the right spot to remove the spring/ball. If you can live without the steering wheel lock feature, then this might be an avenue for you. I think I found the initial information about this in the DIY section, IIRC.

Yeah Denny I dont think that's necessary. I know some other chassis guys are in love with that (E36's or something they do it all the time?) That's not really a 'repair' but a disabling... Agree completely with your description tho, cuz, really, who needs that steering lock these days anyway... but still cuz I'm a "make everything work the way its supposed to" type I dont want to go that way personally.

To the other guys saying stuff about broken switch/cylinder/etc. sure, but I guarantee you that this is different and that MurphysIrishStout and WalkerTexasRanger both have the same issue because it suddenly happened exactly aligned to the polar vortex.

This is the interlock sticking cuz the ancient grease is frozen. Guarantee it.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by theWalkinator

Just got a call from wife, same thing happens to my 2002 540i, key won't turn, I have my wife tried turn steering wheel left and right, tried to move the shifter back and forth, I even had her rock the car, nothing works, so I told her to get a hair dryer to blow to the key hole. It was -4 F this morning so it is very cold, I guess either some moisture in side the car condense on the key lock cylinder got frozen or like someone said, grease is frozen? She is going to try the hair dryer trick later, will report back.

BTW the hairdryer prob won't work what you really would need to do would be drop the bottom column plastic cover and hair dryer the underside of the whole lock assembly (giant aluminum casting).

Now THAT would probably work PERFECTLY come to think of it. Might try it on my own car and see if by doing that it might get the grease to stop sticking... (unless it melts the grease into some location where it sticks even worse ... !)

**danmurphymn** · 01-31-2019, 02:28 PM

Thanks everyone,
I'm glad to hear there are others with a similar problem. Unlike GG, I'm more than happy to do an easy fix that isn't "as it was originally intended." Is there a link to a thread on drilling out the spring? I don't care about steering wheel lock. This has happened for months, although much more problematic as it has been increasingly cold.
I'll try the fingerbang
Oh, I'll try it on the car too!

During the last few -50 windchill days I've worked from home and taken my wifes Honda because I didn't want to deal with the key issue...

**geargrinder** · 01-31-2019, 02:53 PM

Be careful. Make sure you’re getting a process that actually works on these cars. That’s just the kind of crap that somebody gets confused on and next thing you know your whole steering column is screwed because it’s not like the E 36 one or whatever

**DennisG01** · 01-31-2019, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by danmurphymn

Is there a link to a thread on drilling out the spring?

Did you look through the DIY sections? Honestly, I don't recall if I initially found it there or just started googling and found the links that way... either this forum or the bimmerfest one. But as noted, pay attention to the specific model information in the thread and make sure it matches with you have (most of the threads on this will include pics, so it's pretty hard to mess up if you're paying attention). Regardless of where I found it, I know it was not hard to find through googling.

**DennisG01** · 01-31-2019, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by geargrinder

Yeah Denny I dont think that's necessary. I know some other chassis guys are in love with that (E36's or something they do it all the time?) That's not really a 'repair' but a disabling... Agree completely with your description tho, cuz, really, who needs that steering lock these days anyway... but still cuz I'm a "make everything work the way its supposed to" type I dont want to go that way personally.

It's funny, GG. After I drilled that 3/8" hole (or something like that) and the spring and ball setup dropped out... I saw how simple of a system this is and there really wasn't anything wrong it (wasn't rusted up or anything), so I figured it had just gotten jammed up. I then thought, "Hey, I could have just drilled an 1/8" hole and squirted some penetrating fluid up there and worked it around till it freed up." Then, after letting it drain, spray a few rounds of silicone, or similar, and then use a rubber plug to stopper the hole. Can't be too hard to find a rubber plug for an 1/8" hole... or even tap the hole for a short machine screw. Then you'd have easy access for future greasings.

But of course, all that was in hindsight... not a "think ahead" type moment!

**geargrinder** · 01-31-2019, 10:38 PM

Thats an excellent idea. And if the lubing doesn’t work, you just use the small hole as the pilot hole and drill out fully. Nice idea.

**danmurphymn** · 01-31-2019, 11:11 PM

So, would it do any good to spray penetrating fluid directly into the ignition? Like a door lock?

**geargrinder** · 01-31-2019, 11:30 PM

I can tell you pretty authoritatively that that won’t work. The tumbler assembly itself is just too dense to allow fluid to pass.

Your only shot would be pulling the cylinder (key has to turn to do that but assuming you can still wigglewaggle it to work when required ), but even then there’s a long distance and another mechanism in the way before you get to the column lock bits. I’ve tried it without luck in past.

What might work and also somehting i may try is, pulling the column covers and trying to spray something from above. The main casting is a big U shaped channel so if you did get some light loobricant dripping in there from above it should tend to run down to the low spots where the lock bar and spring etc etc all sit.

**Santaclaus4** · 02-01-2019, 05:56 AM

All this "finger banging" stuff reminds me of going to the drive-in theater back in the late '70's and early 80's for some reason...

**geargrinder** · 02-01-2019, 08:03 AM

heh heh.

Just to add some stolen photo illustrations to my suggest from last night...

This is from an E32 but I know our parts are essentially the same (I have a good column-lock lying around here someplace just too lazy to dig it out of the warehouse...)

Here's what the lock casting is like. You can imagine there's some hope that if you got loob seeping down the sides that it would get to the part we want to loosen up. The stuff that is under that bar in the middle.

Here's what top of the column looks like. That top cover is in no way sealed so there's some hope that you might get something to ooze down in there.

So... might be worth a try. Although, I still like the "drill a loobrikashun port from undah-neeth" idea.

**danmurphymn** · 02-01-2019, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by geargrinder

heh heh.

Just to add some stolen photo illustrations to my suggest from last night...

This is from an E32 but I know our parts are essentially the same (I have a good column-lock lying around here someplace just too lazy to dig it out of the warehouse...)

Here's what the lock casting is like. You can imagine there's some hope that if you got loob seeping down the sides that it would get to the part we want to loosen up. The stuff that is under that bar in the middle.

Here's what top of the column looks like. That top cover is in no way sealed so there's some hope that you might get something to ooze down in there.

So... might be worth a try. Although, I still like the "drill a loobrikashun port from undah-neeth" idea.

Awesome, thanks! I need to get something figured out. I haven't driven the car the last 2 days because it was -30 with a -50 windchill. Today we're having a heat wave at 1 degrees.
I couldn't get the key to turn. Of all the nit picky things this car has done, this key thing has pissed me off more than any. For some reason, it's just so freaking frustrating to be sitting in your car for 2-3 minutes wiggling the key, pulling it out and turning it around, wiggling, wiggle, fingerbang, turn it around, wiggle wiggle bang bang... And nothing.

Supposedly tomorrow we'll be up in the 40's so I'd like to try the lube from above and the hole drill lube from below technique.

Anyone have any pictures of where to drill the hole or any threads I can read?
I'll search them later, just asking in case someone knows off the top of their head.

**theWalkinator** · 02-01-2019, 10:40 AM

Update: so after I got home yesterday, I got in the car and insert the key, tried turn but it stuck, jiggled little the steering wheel, no help, so I tried again, with little force, the key turned and car started, so I turned off and turned the key few times, felt some resistance and not smooth, so I spray some silicon lubricant inside the key hole and around key lock cylinder, tried few more times, felt better, spray some more lubricant, tried few more times, key turned more smooth. It is like 8F this morning, I got into the car, turned key and no problem, key turned nicely. SO I guess yesterday with the sun shinning, cabin was warmed up above the freezing point so that helped a little. Oh well, it is too cold to disassemble the ignition component so wait until it gets warmer to address that.

**danmurphymn** · 02-01-2019, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by theWalkinator

Update: so after I got home yesterday, I got in the car and insert the key, tried turn but it stuck, jiggled little the steering wheel, no help, so I tried again, with little force, the key turned and car started, so I turned off and turned the key few times, felt some resistance and not smooth, so I spray some silicon lubricant inside the key hole and around key lock cylinder, tried few more times, felt better, spray some more lubricant, tried few more times, key turned more smooth. It is like 8F this morning, I got into the car, turned key and no problem, key turned nicely. SO I guess yesterday with the sun shinning, cabin was warmed up above the freezing point so that helped a little. Oh well, it is too cold to disassemble the ignition component so wait until it gets warmer to address that.

Do did you spray silicone lubricant into the key ignition hole? And that seemed to help?

**theWalkinator** · 02-01-2019, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by danmurphymn

Do did you spray silicone lubricant into the key ignition hole? And that seemed to help?

Yes, I sprayed into the key hole, and outside around metal key hole cap and also around the plastic cap, I stick the spray straw deep inside the key hole.

**danmurphymn** · 02-04-2019, 04:21 PM

Update: I sprayed silicone lubricant into my key hole and everything seems to be working just fine.
It's not 100%. Sometime the key locks up, but it turns and turns with 98% more regularity than less than a week ago. Let's hope it's an actual improvement and not just a result of the weather going from -30 to +40...

**m735is** · 02-04-2019, 08:29 PM

Not saying that yours will do this but, when I was having key issues, my steering wheel locked up for a split second while driving- twice. Not a nice feeling. I drilled the spring out the next day and haven't had issues.

I did try spraying lube in the key cylinder first, but it didn't work in my case. It's been fine for a couple months now.

**geargrinder** · 02-04-2019, 08:54 PM

Yeah as I said before. The cylinder is pretty dense, the key hole is a really bad way to try to get lube to the sticking part. The far better thing to do is pull the lock cylinder and squirt it behind that. That's still not great indirect but it'll work much faster for that approach. Takes all of 15mins if you have experience and a pin tool made for the cylinder release. Column covers have to be off so you can get the ring antenna on and off again but that's not hard or time consuming.

I just did that again the other day, but more importantly, mainly also tried the top-drip trick I was suggesting... has been better but weather is crazy warm now so not really decisive! Will post back once it's like 7° again with a better eval.

**jclausen** · 02-05-2019, 09:18 AM

I recently had my tumblr start acting up and not unlocking steering replaced tumbler all good now

**geargrinder** · 02-12-2019, 09:41 AM

OK. Quick update.

As mentioned above, about week and a half ago....

I pulled the plastic covers, pulled the lock cylinder, then put a little lube (Tri-Flow in this case) behind the cylinder. This I have done this before... might work a little, not guaranteed tho... and I think for most people who get the full on "can't turn the key even with lots of jiggling", it won't really do too much.

But then dripped looberz along the top 'seam' of the column shaft where it meets the steering lock housing underneath.

Well seems to have worked pretty well. Immediately there was very little difference but since the whole trick - from either location - is hoping that the loob will work its way down to the low spots where the locking bar is, I knew it would take some time and perhaps running the car and turning the wheel and starting/shutting down the car would help to move things around over time. Plus we had a heat wave, so though it started working great very quickly I couldn't be sure that wasn't just the normal "works fine all summer but sticks in the winter" issue.

OK over week later its now 20F and the fix is working. Might not be as buttery smooth as factory new, but I can get in and turn the key for the most part, at the very least the slightest 1/2 second jiggle of the wheel.

Just to illustrate what I did... I had to stole a pic from innernet and annotated with arrows cuz I didn't take pix, this is for an e32 column lock but honestly it looks almost just like this.

Basically the idea is the whole bottom part that we cant see, is a metal channel, so if you can get anything to seep down the sides of the column shaft, it should run to the bottom and then end up where the column lock bar pops up and down and gets sticky. I squirted and let it soak in then squirted a little and let it soak it etc. etc. a number of times and then buttoned everything back up.

I still intend to pull the whole lock out and replace it eventually - mine is an automatic column lock with the park-interlock thing so I want to delete that, and when I do that I'll put the new one all nice and clean and working smooth, but in meantime I think this will get me through the winter nicely.

**danmurphymn** · 02-12-2019, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by geargrinder

OK. Quick update.

As mentioned above, about week and a half ago....

I pulled the plastic covers, pulled the lock cylinder, then put a little lube (Tri-Flow in this case) behind the cylinder. This I have done this before... might work a little, not guaranteed tho... and I think for most people who get the full on "can't turn the key even with lots of jiggling", it won't really do too much.

But then dripped looberz along the top 'seam' of the column shaft where it meets the steering lock housing underneath.

Well seems to have worked pretty well. Immediately there was very little difference but since the whole trick - from either location - is hoping that the loob will work its way down to the low spots where the locking bar is, I knew it would take some time and perhaps running the car and turning the wheel and starting/shutting down the car would help to move things around over time. Plus we had a heat wave, so though it started working great very quickly I couldn't be sure that wasn't just the normal "works fine all summer but sticks in the winter" issue.

OK over week later its now 20F and the fix is working. Might not be as buttery smooth as factory new, but I can get in and turn the key for the most part, at the very least the slightest 1/2 second jiggle of the wheel.

Just to illustrate what I did... I had to stole a pic from innernet and annotated with arrows cuz I didn't take pix, this is for an e32 column lock but honestly it looks almost just like this.

Basically the idea is the whole bottom part that we cant see, is a metal channel, so if you can get anything to seep down the sides of the column shaft, it should run to the bottom and then end up where the column lock bar pops up and down and gets sticky. I squirted and let it soak in then squirted a little and let it soak it etc. etc. a number of times and then buttoned everything back up.

I still intend to pull the whole lock out and replace it eventually - mine is an automatic column lock with the park-interlock thing so I want to delete that, and when I do that I'll put the new one all nice and clean and working smooth, but in meantime I think this will get me through the winter nicely.

That's great, thanks for the update! My spray in the key cylinder has worked for now. Hopefully enough to get through the winter until I can get the time and weather to fix it properly. 90% of the time my key turns in 1-2 tries now. Occasionally it locks up for 5-10 tries, but at least it turns. Easy enough just to spray lube in the key hold. I'm all for a proper fix but it's either -25 here or snowing every day. Not the time for me to be in the garage...