Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 47

Thread: Montreal blue M52 turbo

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo

    Montreal blue M52 turbo

    I wasn't able to change the title of my previous thread, but I would like to track my progress here.
    mainly because I am upgrading now to a different turbo.
    So I start a new thread with a less obnoxious title (who cares about check ups and CO%).

    After my M51 diesel powered e28 got totaled, I used the insurance money to buy a car I wanted since my dad had one when I was around 10:
    an e46 330ci. imported a black M-sport version from germany, only to get bored of it real soon.
    somehow I found myself reminising over my old e36 328i.

    it wasn't untill I was washing my 330ci and a e36 325i was in the washbox next to me that I found myself searching "marktplaats.nl"
    (dutch version of graigslist) for e36's.

    I found one, a turbo charged '96 328i.
    E36 328i, which now has:
    -cometic MLS headgasket
    -mosselman turbo systems with a Garret GT28 42A/R turbo, 0.75bar of boost (getting an SPA and HX35)
    -8A6G-AA Fomoco injectors build to 440cc
    -innovate scg1 boost controller.
    -350z maf with resistor
    -BOV to atmosphere
    -in desperate need of a tune.

    I spend some time away from home for work and I used my spare time there to get acqainted with Romraider and the MS41 ECU.
    and got it running well.

    some pictures:







    I'm his favorite uncle now.



    It was nice, took it for a road trip during the summer with my wife. and enjoyed it.

    In the beginning of october I took my car out driving, and picked up a friend who ownes an S2000.
    He told me that it didn't feel quicker than his Honda.
    couldn't really let it slide, and that night I took a look at all the logs that I made during the summer.

    with 200CEL cat, my load and airflow was like this (not real numbers due to the MS41 load limit):


    as you can see, between ~2000 and ~4000 the GT28 could deliver a decent amount of torque. but after that it was done.
    It felt like a diesel. also, from my knock retard readings I could tell that the back pressure from the GT28 was to much.
    at 0.8 bar of boost I had almost no timing left BTDC.

    So I bought a used HX35 with a 12cm^2 turbine housing, took it apart and changed parts that needed to be changed.


    HX35 next to the GT28

    at first I wanted to make it work with the Mosselman manifold and the exhaust I allready had.
    but after some test fitting, and no possibility for wastegate placement, i decided to go SPA:


    fitment problems with the mosselman mani


    SPA


    And go 3inch front to back, but keep my supersprint muffler. (2x 2,5inch). I never TIG welded before, but I could use the TIG welder of a friend
    who build this Jaguar among a whole lot of other stuff:
    https://www.supercars.net/blog/2000-...xk180-concept/

    I can't weld, I'm learning by trial and error, with error taking up the majority of my time

    But, here I am today:



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo






    to wet/cold to work on it now.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    54
    My Cars
    '96 328i w/ M50B25 turbo
    niiice, almost got the same car. bought as M52B28 with a K24 charger and felt like a diesel
    now upgrade on M50TU forged and Schwitzer S2B failed (block has two holes now), so its getting stock M50NV.

    Also planning to use HARD fenders, that seem to look exactly like yours. nice car!

    oh and if youre looking for a tune, look for tim maatman, this guy has built a 800hp M50 for a guy i know recently, and it worked without problems the whole season.
    Last edited by mr10ger; 01-23-2019 at 04:51 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    Thanks!

    Will you still use the S2B?
    Any idea on how much power you made on that?

    My goal is +-400hp. as you can see in the logs I made a decent amount of torque down low with the GT28, and the M52 was ok with that.
    If I can keep that amount of torque to much hight in the RPM's I will be happy. I will have to deliver something in torque down low, but I am ok with that.

    I have seen tim on instagram and like his work! I have tuned my car with Romraider last year, and have a tune now that will support the HX35 as well.
    I just hope my bigger exhaust housing will deliver less backpressure which will let me run a bit more timing, and keep my engine healthy.

    Better powerband, no knock and about 400hp, that is the goal.
    hopefully I can take it on a tour through the Eifel area this year.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    54
    My Cars
    '96 328i w/ M50B25 turbo
    I've made over 500Nm and 300hp with the K24 @0.65 bar on Stock rods, lower compression pistons, stock headgasket and everything else afaik (didnt build that engine myself).

    The setup with the s2b only ran for about 20km on 0,5 bar. Made a whole lot of air mass, we used the mapping from a friend who used a china charger (gt30/35 something i think) and had to add fuel from when the charger started boosting. I think we had 0,5 bar at something around 2000 rpm with 1.0 A/r and custom made tube manifold (rewelded M52 manifold).
    As the turbine wheel shows no damage from piston parts or something i will use it again. We were pretty surprised of how well it responded.

    The guy i mentioned pulled 950hp yesterday btw

    Bigger hot side will surely reduce backpressure and therefor knocking. Even though the spa manifold is not the best flowing one. M52 stock and manifold should start to max out at around 400hp so it should be okay.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    know why your s2b setup blew up?

    I read here that the SPA is actually very well designed, flowing pretty good as well (for a cast manifold).
    but also, I would like to see a wide powerband, for spool you need backpressure.

    When I got it alle together, I will post some logs about airflow from the HX35. i'm curious how it will perform with the SPA.
    I am one more weld away from finishing my exhaust, but I would like to send my turbo for a rebuild/balancing.

    plan is to have it all running in april!

    where in germany do you live?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    54
    My Cars
    '96 328i w/ M50B25 turbo
    We can not be 100% sure but we think that the timing chain hopped and the valves hit the piston. Chain tensioner started making noise before it happened...

    Im living in munich

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    So, I have my car running now since beginning of april. did some tuning and now it is running very well.

    the biggest issue I have now is boostcontrol.
    I just can't get steady boost. it fluctuates from 0,6bar to 0,9bar between pulls on the same tune.
    can be a time difference of 10seconds between pulls, same gear, but still the gap between the 2 is that big.

    setup:
    Turbosmart WG45, 7PSI spring, recirculated into Downpipe.
    Innovate SCG-1 controller, 2-port connection (or closed loop) method. method 1 in the turbosmart instruction.

    SCG-1 settings:
    wastegateduty 32%
    solenoid start pressure 0,35bar
    Boost cut pressure 0,9 bar
    boost cut percentage 10%

    I have no O2 boost cuts anymore so that can't be it.

    my gues is that my 7psi (runing on spring pressure only gives me a 0.42bar boost peak) spring is simply too soft.
    But maybe you guys have some input!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    4,754
    My Cars
    are slow.
    My favorite E36 color. Beautiful car!
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
    -Dr. Seuss
    DIY BMW Tools. Charlie For President

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by Hova View Post
    My favorite E36 color. Beautiful car!
    thanks! I always wanted an estroril/Laguna sega blue or a Techno violet e36, But this looks as good when it is clean, and the sun hits it!
    It's far from perfect being a 350k km chassis, but I like it a lot.

    Did some runs today while it was a bit hot outside, and when everything is hot, on spring pressure I have a max boost of 0,39 bar.
    lowering the spring pressure setting on my SCG-1 to 0,28 gives me a little bit more control, but in second gear pulls it feels like the SCG-1 is not fast enough to control boost.

    I ordered a 10psi spring, hopefully that will give me better boostcontrol.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    Installed the 10psi spring last friday.
    So, a 7psi spring gives me ~5,8psi.
    A 10pst spring gives me ~7,5psi boost.

    I have my SCG-1 setup like this with the 10psi spring:
    Spring pressure: 4.5psi, as the innovate manual suggest boost on spring pressure- 2psi should be this setting, but I noticed my solenoid was to slow to control boost so I lowered it a bit more.
    wastegate duty%: 10%

    I get ~11psi now at ~3600rpm, and it also starts to spool better in the lower RPM's. I can drive it on torque now, very nice.

    Also, I washed and waxed it a bit last weekend, replaced my old catch can setup with a mishimoto one and the car made it through his annual check up with no big problems!







    Now to fix my cracked thermostat housing, after that I will up the wastegate percentage a bit to see where it takes me, If I can get a steady 12psi, I'm good.
    Last edited by et89; 06-24-2019 at 04:09 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    Thermostat housing fixed, couldn't keep it at 12psi. 15psi is much more fun!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    54
    My Cars
    '96 328i w/ M50B25 turbo
    15psi on stock M52 is close to banana rods

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    Who doesn't like bananas!

    Rajicase on here did a bit more than that i believe...

    But other than that, I still have issues controlling my boost so I turned it down a bit.
    in 3rd gear I run 12/13psi. only in 5th gear I get 15psi occasionaly, so if I don't do 5th gear pulls all is ok.
    1st, 2nd and 3rd are for fun anyway. 5th is for highway cruising.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    ~14psi from my holset HX35 is to much for my 440cc injectors. they are running about 90% duty cycle at full boost.
    So, they gave out. luckily I had the safety settings right on my innovate. car leaned out, didn't build boost.

    I have been fighting weird knock readings that the car didn't have before. obviously there was something off and I do believe that
    the injectors going bad (and making all kind of noises) are the culprit.

    I will buy a set of Bosch 0 280 158 123. they are the same size as the fomoco parts I had that came with an adapter, so i should be able to use those.

    Also, I looked at my latest logs and they showed that my IAT's went high while pulling through the gears.
    So I am looking into different intercoolers.
    currently I have my eyes set on the treadstone TR11, it is rated at 560hp. and with my set up i will probably not go over that any time soon.
    going bigger might increase lag, so I think this is a good pick.

    before anyone starts about "give it a month and you'll aim for 20psi and your little intercooler won't do":
    I have limited budget to do all this, and there is a lot more too do to the car before I have money to spent on go even faster parts.

    I would love to have my fenders restored to original in the front and to e46 front fenders in the rear like this car has:
    http://www.speedhunters.com/2017/12/...t-cohesive-m3/

    I have been thinking about widebodykits like felonyform and others, but I think that restoring the factory lines with a bit wider rear fenders will make me enjoy the car more in the long run.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    The guys here that do run a catalytic converter, what do you run?

    With my fueling issues figured out, I can boost too 14psi and the cars runs great.
    But i was seeing quiet a lot of knock using the CAT that i currently have.
    today I removed my cat and i didn't have any knock, and flowed 6% more air.

    thing is, I am "illegal" already, but now they can also smell me from a mile away.
    so i would like to run cats, I would like to have a setup that does better than what I have and capable of handling ~450whp.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,375
    My Cars
    E36 Turbo
    GESI makes the best cats for this purpose - but they're not cheap.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    GESI makes the best cats for this purpose - but they're not cheap.
    Yeah, that would mean that my cat costs more than my turbo.
    but I do consider buying one of those, and your recommendation is definitly helping. thanks.
    still cheaper than the JHS ones too.

    Nobody can say anything about me being not environmentally concious! ha!
    Last edited by et89; 04-21-2020 at 01:15 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,375
    My Cars
    E36 Turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by et89 View Post
    Yeah, that would mean that my cat costs more than my turbo.
    but I do consider buying one of those, and your recommendation is definitly helping. thanks.
    still cheaper than the JHS ones too.

    Nobody can say anything about me being not environmentally concious! ha!
    Well you haven't told anyone what cat you're currently running... and I don't think a good sized OEM cat (which would be really big and heavy vs the GESI) would be the correct answer even though it would let you make the power.

    Not sure about where you are but you should be able to find 3" SS cat's which are far cheaper.. Vibrant used to sell them, doesn't seem like they list any cats anymore although I think they exclusively deal with GESI now.

    The SS cats usually look like this: https://www.yonaka.com/3_Ultra_High_.../ymccuhf30.htm

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Well you haven't told anyone what cat you're currently running... and I don't think a good sized OEM cat (which would be really big and heavy vs the GESI) would be the correct answer even though it would let you make the power.

    Not sure about where you are but you should be able to find 3" SS cat's which are far cheaper.. Vibrant used to sell them, doesn't seem like they list any cats anymore although I think they exclusively deal with GESI now.

    The SS cats usually look like this: https://www.yonaka.com/3_Ultra_High_.../ymccuhf30.htm
    true, but I had a magnaflow 53006 with my GT28. that was quite shitty. was a restriction and it didn't pass the anual check up we have.
    Now, I have a 100-cel cat: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/100-Zeller-K...72.m2749.l2649 which does pas inspection, but it makes it nearly impossible to stop my engine from knocking. I experience quite a lot of knock retard, and running a lower timing map doesn't change that. removing the CAT does.

    I have read some about the GESI cats and they seem to do what they promise.
    Vibrant had a deal with GESi, but GESi is now sold under G-sport by GESi.

    Basically, where i am at now, I don't trust the "cheap" ones, and if start to spend money it should be on something good.
    the GESi is expensive, but if it gives me the results that I have now without a cat, or close. it is well worth it.
    Last edited by et89; 04-21-2020 at 03:04 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,375
    My Cars
    E36 Turbo
    Must be a really bad cat if you have restriction w/ a 100-cell cat...

    I agree, I think you will have to bite the bullet on this one and just get (or something on the level of) the GESI

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    with my fuel pressure and knock solved, it feels like a different car.
    this corona thing sucks, but it helped too get some things done on my car.

    i have one more issue, which isn't new. but i just can't get my boost under control.

    setup:

    -3 inch intake pipe, Vibrant air intake filter
    -2,5inch hot and cold side intercoolerpiping
    -TR11 threadstone intercooler
    -WG45 turbosmart wastegate recirculated into exhaust
    -10psi spring

    boostcontrol:
    -manifold pressure as reference pressure for boost sensor
    -boostcontrol is closed loop; using compressor housing outlet as reference to solenoid as in https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/...1%20Manual.pdf

    last weekend with outside temps up to 26degree and boostlevels where around 13psi.
    this morning on the same settings, outside temps where 6degree, boostlevel went up too 19psi.
    this is a pretty significant difference, is this normal? this means i need to adjust the duty cycle every drive depending on the weather.

    what can I do to improve this?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,375
    My Cars
    E36 Turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by et89 View Post

    boostcontrol:
    -manifold pressure as reference pressure for boost sensor
    -boostcontrol is closed loop; using compressor housing outlet as reference to solenoid as in https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/...1%20Manual.pdf

    last weekend with outside temps up to 26degree and boostlevels where around 13psi.
    this morning on the same settings, outside temps where 6degree, boostlevel went up too 19psi.
    this is a pretty significant difference, is this normal? this means i need to adjust the duty cycle every drive depending on the weather.

    what can I do to improve this?
    Nothing in that manual suggests that the boost controller uses closed loop targets to me. Unless there is another manual for it to show the programming of the boost control potion that allows adjusting PID and boost targeting, that gauge is purely open loop control with some spool/gain adjustments.

    In which case yes it's possible that such a large temperature swing will give you much more boost (especially during spool) for the same WGDC that you have set in warmer weather.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    Quote Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
    Nothing in that manual suggests that the boost controller uses closed loop targets to me. Unless there is another manual for it to show the programming of the boost control potion that allows adjusting PID and boost targeting, that gauge is purely open loop control with some spool/gain adjustments.

    In which case yes it's possible that such a large temperature swing will give you much more boost (especially during spool) for the same WGDC that you have set in warmer weather.
    Sorry, I didn't mean closed loop settings, but closed loop "routing" of the vacuum lines. I might be using the wrong term.

    Ok, than i will not try to adjust this and spend my time elsewhere, just check the outside temps and adjust duty cycle accordingly.

    thanks!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    276
    My Cars
    e36 328i turbo
    same day as i wrote my last post, my cold side intercooler piping popped off.
    after i bolted it all up my boostpressure is a lot more steady
    I needed to rewrite my tune, since it was too lean under boost.
    which leads me too believe that I was having boostleaks before.

    I had planned to send the car to the bodyshop to get my fenders done. when I pulled the sideskirts, I
    took a part of the rockerpanel off, or at least, what was left of it in brown briddle pieces.

    It will now undergo some surgery in the coming weeks and when it is back it will have e46 front fenders fabricated to the rear of the car.
    Bodyshop that is doing this for me had a lot of experience with mainly classic american vehicles.
    I feel confident in how it will turn out.

    Can't wait! will post pics when it is done, unless it looks like shit and i am afraid to post it.

    after that, I will have to hunt down some oil leaks... because it never stops.
    Last edited by et89; 06-02-2020 at 03:11 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-05-2010, 12:31 PM
  2. Interesting M50/M52 Turbo on E-Bay
    By lkstaack in forum Forced Induction
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-25-2003, 05:16 PM
  3. for all montreal blue e36 owners
    By kosta in forum BMW Parts For Sale
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-10-2003, 03:26 PM
  4. montreal blue grilles
    By kosta in forum BMW Parts For Sale
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-21-2002, 10:28 PM
  5. Any good pictures of blue or montreal blue with tint?
    By Stockman in forum General BMW and Automotive Discussion sponsored by Intercity Lines
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-10-2002, 11:38 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •