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Thread: Just got a new (to me) Z3M! Looking of replacing cooling system, need advice

  1. #1
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    Just got a new (to me) Z3M! Looking of replacing cooling system, need advice

    Hey all!

    I'm new here, virtue of me purchasing a 2000 Z3M roadster that just passed 60,000 on the clock.

    That being said, I need some practical advice. I have basically no experience wrenching on cars, though I would like to learn. However, since this is my daily driver (aside from my moped, lol), I'm not wanting to create any more problems by getting in way over my head.

    My understanding is that since I have no idea whether or not the cooling system parts have been changed, I may as well change them (or have them changed) myself, just as a cautious measure. I've done loads of research on overhauling the cooling system, but since they're several years old (10+), I figured I would ask again for a more recent record on the forum.

    1. Given the age of the car today, if I replace the water pump, should I go ahead and replace the thermostat housing and thermostat at the same time, or wait?
    2. Should I replace the radiator, though the car only has 60K miles?
    3. Should I replace the fan clutch (and possibly the fan) due to the age despite the low mileage, or are the stock fan and clutch good enough for a while longer until the the often stated 100K mark?
    4. Would replacing these parts myself be getting way over my head (or cost-inefficient), considering I don't have the tools on-hand and also lack experience tinkering with cars? (My knowledge is limited to repairing the moped, but a 50cc 2-stroke seems simple compared to a full-sized automobile.)


    Any other advice or tips are welcome!

  2. #2
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    Hello and welcome to the forum. You found the right place to answer all your questions. I say take it easy and slow and just drive the car for a while and see what it needs--it may need its cooling system refreshed--it may need something else--it may need nothing at all. Tackle small jobs first and build up your confidence, skill, and tools before you go launching into replacing the entire cooling system. How about learning how to change the oil for starters, check the tire pressure, top off the fluids, change the spark plugs, valve cover gasket, replace the seat bushings (assuming it needs it), address the glove box sag. Read through the FAQ thread and just follow the conversation for a while. You've got spunk--I'll give you that.

  3. #3
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    Welcome.
    I too use my M as a daily driver. Why wouldn’t I

    Anyway. As a complete novice first thing you need is a basic metric tool kit.

    From there start slow. As mentioned drive the car, is there any previous maintenance history?

    Cooling system is a good place to start. Of course if there are no other issues.

    Why not delete the mechanical fan completely?

    I would recommend Bimmerbum.com as a great source for parts.

    Good luck, enjoy the car and have fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Ditto Bimmerbum.com for parts--he's on eBay too.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bingley View Post
    valve cover gasket
    Interesting that you put this as one of the first things to do... I've read that this gasket gets brittle over time, and once that happens it falls apart when you try to remove it and it's hard to keep pieces from falling into the head. So it would be a good idea to replace it every 80k (or so) miles before it gets brittle.

    My car's not leaking oil, but this really got me thinking about preventively replacing the VCG before it gets brittle if possible (my car is ~85k miles)... Any thoughts on regular preventive replacement vs. replace when you see a leak?

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the welcome, guys! I'm happy to be a part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bingley View Post
    How about learning how to change the oil for starters, check the tire pressure, top off the fluids, change the spark plugs, valve cover gasket, replace the seat bushings (assuming it needs it), address the glove box sag.
    I've been reading up on the FAQs, which led me to make the post in the first place

    As for those things, thankfully, most of them are things I do know how to do (aside from the valve cover gasket)! I'll also need to learn how to remove the seats, but I figure that's pretty easy. The glove box has no sag, I got lucky.

    it may need its cooling system refreshed--it may need something else--it may need nothing at all
    This is interesting to me. I bought the car and haggled the guy down on the premise that the cooling system was a "ticking time bomb" since it had 60K miles on it. I inspected the mechanical fan, and the plastic seems almost new (clean, flexible, not brittle), lending me to believe it was already replaced fairly recently. However, I'm nervous about the cooling system because of the constant bombardment of "get ready for the water pump to go at 60K" threads I've read during my research. The car runs fantastically, but the last thing I'd want is for it to blow up right after I bought it. That said, a local guy just told me to check for any leaking out of the pump bleeder screw, and when I see any, that means it's time for a replacement. Is this accurate?

    As a complete novice first thing you need is a basic metric tool kit.
    I've rebuilt a few 2-strokes, so definitely a check here!

    is there any previous maintenance history?
    The CARFAX came back with maintenance records, but it didn't lend itself to anything related to the cooling system. The dealer wouldn't give me any service receipts because of "privacy reasons", but ensured me the car had been maintained very well (though I take that with a grain of salt).

    I'll definitely look into Bimmerbum for any parts!
    Last edited by zeBugMan; 01-15-2019 at 09:44 AM.

  7. #7
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    Good advice from everyone. I second the viscous clutch fan delete. If it’s going to fail, 60k miles, not to mention age, could make it a priority. It may never fail, but there is a history on this. I’m not sure about the water pump, but it might also be worth a look. Replacements are available with stainless vs plastic vanes making it more bullet proof. Given comments on the valve cover gasket becoming brittle after 85k miles, that provides a good 25k yet before it needs addressing.

    My car only has 20k miles on it and I just bought it. My plan is to do all fluids in the spring when it comes out of winter storage. Knowing the exact maintenance history performed by the previous owner is not 100% guaranteed. Starting new ownership with fresh fluids provides a good baseline for future service intervals. Brake caliper pistons and slide pins should also be cleaned up and properly lubricated if required.

    Another area worth checking would be the differential reinforcement spot welds in the trunk in front of the tool kit and the differential hanger mount for cracks. Read the forum history on this potential failure and solutions applied.

    One of the best things you can do is read through as much of this forum as you can relative to your model. Beginning before I bought my Z3 in November, I’ve made this forum daily reading. Mods and accessories are personal choices and sometimes require some willpower to resist the temptation to spend money on. Reading everything about mechanical issues and advice here is time very well spent.

    Welcome and enjoy your great car!

  8. #8
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    Welcome!

    Mechanical fan has a production date stamped on a blade. That might be a good indicator if PO replaced any cooling parts. My original fan on my 1999 Z3 Coupe was dated from 1996, so it lasted 22 years before I tossed a new one in last year. I had it deleted for a while, but then the electric fan quit one day and I wanted the redundancy.

    I got lucky on my M Roadster. PO had just replaced the entire cooling system, and then needed (not wanted) to sell so I know he spent the time and $ doing it right. Had he not done it (car had 52k miles), I would have. I think it's a relatively modest investment just for the peace of mind. I'd do it if I had no evidence it was already done.
    Nathan in Denver

    1999 M Roadster, VFE V3 S/C, Randy Forbes Reinforced, Hardtop, H&R/Bilstein, Apex PS-7, Supersprint
    1999 Z3 2.8 Coupe, Headers, 3.46, Manual Swap, H&R/Koni, M Geometry/Brakes, M54B30 Manifold, Style 42

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by raubritter View Post
    Interesting that you put this as one of the first things to do... I've read that this gasket gets brittle over time, and once that happens it falls apart when you try to remove it and it's hard to keep pieces from falling into the head. So it would be a good idea to replace it every 80k (or so) miles before it gets brittle.

    My car's not leaking oil, but this really got me thinking about preventively replacing the VCG before it gets brittle if possible (my car is ~85k miles)... Any thoughts on regular preventive replacement vs. replace when you see a leak?
    My opinion: if it ain't broke .... Seriously, there would be no extra problems from waiting for it to leak before fixing. Also typically with older cars you'll be in there anyway for another reason; do it then. I live in AZ, and replaced it when I did the Vanos at 100k. It was obviously old but okay. There's another reason to leave it alone: the possibility that disturbing stuff will create problems.

  10. #10
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    This is interesting to me. I bought the car and haggled the guy down on the premise that the cooling system was a "ticking time bomb" since it had 60K miles on it. I inspected the mechanical fan, and the plastic seems almost new (clean, flexible, not brittle), lending me to believe it was already replaced fairly recently. However, I'm nervous about the cooling system because of the constant bombardment of "get ready for the water pump to go at 60K" threads I've read during my research. The car runs fantastically, but the last thing I'd want is for it to blow up right after I bought it. That said, a local guy just told me to check for any leaking out of the pump bleeder screw, and when I see any, that means it's time for a replacement. Is this accurate?

    Yes, the water pump will usually warn you with a leak from that hole, or some looseness or noise. Problem with noise is that it could be coming from any one of those pulleys. Many cooling parts fail by around 100k, so, despite many opinions, it's really up to you. If you like total peace of mind, and fear the problems of suddenly needing to work on the car, then change it all. If you are more resilient, (for example I am retired so don't need my car every day, and have my wife's 325i as backup), then you can wait for things to go out. There is that "while you're in there" stuff, balanced by how much money you have handy. I think most will say go with a metal impeller water pump, but watch out for el-cheapos. Definitely buy a good tstat (a new cheap one was once my problem). "Fan delete" is a whole topic by itself, with several recent threads. Hoses: replace them all. I lost a heater hose after replacing all the major hoses. Fixing that on the road was really irritating.

    The CARFAX came back with maintenance records, but it didn't lend itself to anything related to the cooling system. The dealer wouldn't give me any service receipts because of "privacy reasons", but ensured me the car had been maintained very well (though I take that with a grain of salt).

    This one ("privacy reasons") made me laugh. What will those a-holes think of next. That's why I never go anywhere a car dealer. If I won the lottery, I'd have to send someone else to by my cars, because I can't stomach those places.

    Other thoughts: Poly Subframe bushings will dramatically improve the personality of your car, with no negatives except being a lot of work t install. But really good tires. Read and ask before doing anything. At 60k, you've got some time to educate yourself.
    Last edited by zellamay; 01-15-2019 at 11:32 AM.

  11. #11
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    I'll have to check for a fan date.

    As for the pump and such, I suppose I'll aim to replace things later in the year. I think you're all right when you say to just drive it a while and see what pops up, if anything.

    The dealer not providing documents did frustrate me, but they did at least change the oil for me prior to purchase, so I'll at least give them that credit.

    The only other "issue" with it is the airbag light. I'm not sure whether the passenger occupancy sensor works or not, but I imagined the car would complain when the passenger doesn't use a seat belt (which it doesn't). I bought a cheapo Chinese code reader, but it can't read the codes. It's not a huge concern to me (unless you all say it should be), so I'm not worried and the light doesn't bother me.
    Last edited by zeBugMan; 01-15-2019 at 12:39 PM.

  12. #12
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    Go to the diagnostic thread and download the inpa software and associated software. This is invaluable in troubleshooting these cars and gives you the means of resetting check engine and abs and airbag faults

  13. #13
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    The dealer not providing documents did frustrate me, but they did at least change the oil for me prior to purchase, so I'll at least give them that credit.

    What oil? It matters.

    The only other "issue" with it is the airbag light. I'm not sure whether the passenger occupancy sensor works or not, but I imagined the car would complain when the passenger doesn't use a seat belt (which it doesn't). I bought a cheapo Chinese code reader, but it can't read the codes. It's not a huge concern to me (unless you all say it should be), so I'm not worried and the light doesn't bother me.[/QUOTE]

    If you are willing and have some computer savvy, downloading INPA onto your computer is that way to go. I did it, and I'm not a computer guy. It's free, except for about $18 for a couple of cables, and it works. There is a cheap tool that some have said works fine: https://www.ebay.com/itm/16223391199...rue&rmvSB=true .......... Here's info about INPA to read: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...a-1998-Z3-2-8L ... https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ncy-Mat-Sensor ... https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...xperimentation ...

  14. #14
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    That's the tool that I have, and it doesn't work for me in either the OBDII or the DLC under the hood. It just flashed E10 no matter what I did, so I gave up with it. I'm gonna get my $20 back.

    Thankfully, as a software engineer, I sure hope I can make the INPA software work!

    I'll give it a download. I'll buy the cables and set it all up and post back with the results in a few days.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeBugMan View Post
    That's the tool that I have, and it doesn't work for me in either the OBDII or the DLC under the hood. It just flashed E10 no matter what I did, so I gave up with it. I'm gonna get my $20 back.

    Thankfully, as a software engineer, I sure hope I can make the INPA software work!

    I'll give it a download. I'll buy the cables and set it all up and post back with the results in a few days.
    INPA is a useful tool. But most people give up trying to get it to work.
    Being a software engineer you are 99% there..

    I purchased an old HP tablet from Goodwill for $20, with $20 on cables I now have a dedicated Auto diagnostic device.
    Also use it for my VW cars with the correct software.

  16. #16
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    As someone who had their Z3 fan explode last year and just this weekend had the radiator crack on my E34, I have a decent bit of experience with this. My advice is that if you have AAA then by all means wait, if not its probably cheaper to do it preventatively than pay for a tow and the fix

  17. #17
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    Ihm,

    How many miles on those failures?

  18. #18
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    The 530i just ticked over 70k this year, the Z3 was at about 150. No idea if the Z3 stuff was original but that failure was much worse as my fan exploded and cut all my hoses radiator and hood foam. Luckily that happened as I was leaving my house so I just turned around and parked her.

  19. #19
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    It would be interesting to see all of the fan failures relative to miles driven.

  20. #20
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    It's more of a age issue with the plastic parts on our cars failing than miles. All the seals,gaskets and rubber bits are probably approaching end of service life.

  21. #21
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    I also considered that possibility. I checked out all of the rubber parts like seals, bushings, hoses, etc., as well as all the plastic, and mine looks great. Same age, but very low miles. Things like sun, salt, road surface chemicals, traffic emissions and parking/storing outside appear to make a difference. Mine hasn’t even been driven in rain and was stored inside covered up. Everything still looks new. I believe the number of miles driven and how hard it was driven are by far the biggest influence on component deterioration and failure. I’ve looked hard for signs of aging on my car and can’t find any. I didn’t expect this to be the case, but really happy that it is. Of course, fluids are all getting changed before I take it out of storage. Other than that, it’s still like a new car.
    Last edited by Tigershark48; 01-17-2019 at 11:50 AM.

  22. #22
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    I'm kind of in the same boat; fan plastic seems pretty flexible and not brittle, and when I squeezed the upper radiator hose, it was really malleable, not brittle and cracked.

  23. #23
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    Getting it up high enough to check underneath is a good idea. The guido (flexible rubber universal joint) should be checked for cracks near the attachment points. While underneath you could look at all the bushings.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeBugMan View Post
    I'm kind of in the same boat; fan plastic seems pretty flexible and not brittle, and when I squeezed the upper radiator hose, it was really malleable, not brittle and cracked.
    Often a radiator hose
    is most malleable just before it fails, because it is getting so thin and weak.
    Last edited by zellamay; 01-17-2019 at 01:15 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigershark48 View Post
    Getting it up high enough to check underneath is a good idea. The guido (flexible rubber universal joint) should be checked for cracks near the attachment points. While underneath you could look at all the bushings.
    It's really hard to see the cracks. I just changed mine, with wonderful results: mainly lack of vibration, but also seems to shift better. Point is, it looked okay while on the car. I only changed it because of vibration. After I took it out, I could see 5 or 6. So I say just replace if in doubt. It's cheap and very easy to replace.

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