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Thread: I'm running out of turbo or valvetrain?

  1. #1
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    I'm running out of turbo or valvetrain?

    22 psi STD corrected
    2.8 M50
    Stock head
    ~E50 and water/meth injection
    Unknown hybrid Garret turbo, seller said it's close to GT35r but can't recall the exact specs. It's valve float or too less of cams or turbo not flowing enough?
    Thanks
    photo_2019-01-14_11-56-53.jpg
    Last edited by 93Siro; 01-14-2019 at 03:39 AM.

  2. #2
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    Wth, chevy big block? More torque than Hp and not by a little....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mklock View Post
    Wth, chevy big block? More torque than Hp and not by a little....
    lol newton meters not pound feet
    565 lb-ft

  4. #4
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    definetely looks like turbo compressor maxing out,very nice powerband by the way.

  5. #5
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    Thats the turbocharger maxing out.

  6. #6
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    cams would help too


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    cams would help too
    How much do you think? If they help making power up to 6,000 rpm i think i'm gonna just get the cams.

    BTW what rear end E30 guys use to get the big case diffs? I think this medium case is not gonna last much time.

  8. #8
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    HP = (TQ*RPM) / 5252

    I dont understand why your graph doesnt cross at 5252.

    But if its metric
    Power (kW) = Torque (N.m) x Speed (RPM) / 9.5488
    Capital Driving Club Car # 102
    How to turbo your car:
    Step one. Install ecu and learn to tune and or have it tuned.
    Step two. Install injectors and retune.
    Step three. Install turbo parts and bits. get it running with out leaks. DO NOT DRIVE IT. Idling should be ok
    Step four. Retune car
    Step five enjoy

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Siro View Post
    How much do you think? If they help making power up to 6,000 rpm i think i'm gonna just get the cams.

    BTW what rear end E30 guys use to get the big case diffs? I think this medium case is not gonna last much time.
    Depends on what cams you get but it will help considerably above 5000 rpms or so. You will soon be out of turbo if you aren't already though so you won't get that much benefit without also upgrading the turbo.

    The best rear end to get for an E30 is the complete rear subframe, axles, diff, and trailing arms from an M coupe. They are a bolt in swap.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkech View Post
    definetely looks like turbo compressor maxing out,very nice powerband by the way.

    That's what Im thinking on both accounts.


    To the OP, I'm sure you can try increasing the top end by gradually increasing WGDC. Like a controlled boost creep setup since cylinder pressure is dropping. BUT, i wonder if the turbo has any left. Either way, I would not be worried about knock or IATs since you have e50 and meth injection. I'd run that turbo till it stopped making boost.
    This is my signature....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by euro2fast4u View Post
    HP = (TQ*RPM) / 5252

    I dont understand why your graph doesnt cross at 5252.

    But if its metric
    Power (kW) = Torque (N.m) x Speed (RPM) / 9.5488
    Power is HP
    Torque is N.M
    They cross at ~7,000 RPM
    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    Depends on what cams you get but it will help considerably above 5000 rpms or so. You will soon be out of turbo if you aren't already though so you won't get that much benefit without also upgrading the turbo.

    The best rear end to get for an E30 is the complete rear subframe, axles, diff, and trailing arms from an M coupe. They are a bolt in swap.
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBoostedBmwM3 View Post
    That's what Im thinking on both accounts.


    To the OP, I'm sure you can try increasing the top end by gradually increasing WGDC. Like a controlled boost creep setup since cylinder pressure is dropping. BUT, i wonder if the turbo has any left. Either way, I would not be worried about knock or IATs since you have e50 and meth injection. I'd run that turbo till it stopped making boost.
    The IAT was the exact reason i also considered valvetrain as a possible candidate and not just solely the turbo. If the turbo is making any heat the twin nozzle setup is masking it pretty well. I'm gonna get some cams and ramp up the boost progressively to get extra oomph on top end and manage the torque until i do something about the rear end. What turbo to look for if this one started to let go? 6266?

  12. #12
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    are slow.
    You made about 550whp on that turbo, that sounds about right for a smaller GT35r. You're def running out of turbo, likely on the compressor side.

    Make sure temps are okay, there is a major restriction going on there. Other than that, you can just run it the way it is. That's a fast little car right there. Outside of that, you can change the compressor size and housing, or just go with a bigger turbo. Something like a S366SX would be a nice step up for cheap.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
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  13. #13
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    The hp is not dropping off at all so the turbo is not currently maxed out. The top line is torque and the bottom is hp. It’s just scaled funny because it’s in NM. The torque is dropping off but that’s normal and to be expected for a motor with tiny m50 cams. The hp and torque curves are where you would expect them to be for the cams.
    Last edited by someguy2800; 01-15-2019 at 10:22 PM.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  14. #14
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    Blew the headgasket in a catastrophic manner after radiator hose got broken during a pull. Opened up the block and yup :/ what do you think is the cause? It was a m50b20 block bored to b25 spec.

    3D35580C-3A3B-43A2-9625-9FD34D48F263.jpg

  15. #15
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    The cylinder walls are very thin when you bore a B20 block to 84mm. Someone posted some pictures of this recently.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  16. #16
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    What is wall thickness of a B25 block?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Siro View Post
    What is wall thickness of a B25 block?
    about 6mm or so


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  18. #18
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    BTW how is it possible that the b25 headgasket sits just fine on my engine if the B20 has less bore spacing?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Siro View Post
    BTW how is it possible that the b25 headgasket sits just fine on my engine if the B20 has less bore spacing?
    They do not have less bore spacing, just smaller bore diameter. The the M20 and M50 engines are 91mm bore spacing. The B25 blocks are cast with larger cylinder sleeves that are conjoined between cylinders. The B20 blocks have water passing between cylinders.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    They do not have less bore spacing, just smaller bore diameter. The the M20 and M50 engines are 91mm bore spacing. The B25 blocks are cast with larger cylinder sleeves that are conjoined between cylinders. The B20 blocks have water passing between cylinders.
    Oh i see now. Makes sense. Thanks for clarification. Lesson learned the hard way.
    Finding decent B25 blocks here is a tough task so i can reuse my 84mm pistons, hence i started with the B20 block. Sleeving the block is the only way i have to go apparently.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Siro View Post
    Oh i see now. Makes sense. Thanks for clarification. Lesson learned the hard way.
    Finding decent B25 blocks here is a tough task so i can reuse my 84mm pistons, hence i started with the B20 block. Sleeving the block is the only way i have to go apparently.
    I think trying to sleeve the cracked block you have is probably going to fail. I went to college for engine machining and our instructor warned us that installing a dry sleeve in a cracked cylinder is guaranteed to fail because the crack will eventually spread and coolant will leak past the sleeve and into the crank case. I've never installed one in cracked bore myself, but he told me that he had tried it several times and it always failed eventually.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    I think trying to sleeve the cracked block you have is probably going to fail. I went to college for engine machining and our instructor warned us that installing a dry sleeve in a cracked cylinder is guaranteed to fail because the crack will eventually spread and coolant will leak past the sleeve and into the crank case. I've never installed one in cracked bore myself, but he told me that he had tried it several times and it always failed eventually.
    How far i can go with piston to wall clearance? Here the blocks are all tired and needs to be machined that's why i started with M50B20 block. I made a mistake and bought STD size in the first place, should have got oversized pistons. I have the M50B25 which needed to be overbored, if i can't find a decent B25 i will sleeve that engine.

    So here's the plan for summer build:

    Already sent the head to be cleaned and checked and have it CNC ported. Cams are on my list, probably going with cat cams and stiffer valve springs. I have a spare 6466 from my 2JZ build, i will bolt that sucker up. Reading on here people mostly seem to use cut ring headgasket setup. What do you suggest to use? Pyramid, cut ring or MLS?

    I should get some shorter gearings for my 530D transmission. Believe it or not it's on stock clutch and it's holding up just fine. Will push it to see how fat it can hold.

    BTW i really appreciate your help.

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