WARNING: Replace radiator fan and clutch... Just do it!

[951Dreams]

Engine sometimes sounds like a jet? Never been replaced since you bought it? Have ANY QUESTION ABOUT IT AT ALL?? Just replaced it! Do it! Do it now!! Seriously!!

(Important edit after replacing clutch/fan. If you can hear the fan any other time than when first starting, replace it NOW. I can't hear the fan with the new parts. I could before)

I'd read the threads, I'd heard the sound. I'd convinced myself it wasn't staying engaged over 2.5k RPM and that I was just being paranoid. I'd read to replace it again and again. I delayed, and I paid! About 3 weeks ago my fan let go. Took out the upper radiator hose, the overflow tank, the hood, power steering hose, secondary air hose, both front brake cooling vent channels, the fan itself, the fan shroud, and the under hood lining. By the time I fix the hood I'm guessing $1000-$1500 in damage? That's with me fixing everything but the hood myself. Could be more if I did it all!! (likely not going to mess with the brake vent thingies anytime soon)

Think people are exaggerating about the damage these fans do when they let go? They aren't. Not in the least. I'm still finding things this grenade BMW calls a fan has damaged.

If you have any doubt, or if you didn't hear from the PO that it's been done, and you haven't done it recently yourself, trust me must replace the clutch and fan right now. Don't wait. Don't delay. Don't put it off. Just consider it regular maintenance. I'd suggest doing it every 10-15 years even if there are no symptoms. I really can't stress how important this is. Both the fan and clutch are wear parts, and it just simply needs to be done. Every E38 needs this done ASAP in my honest opinion. They are just to that age. Every one of them.

It's all apart right now. The ONLY silver lining is it motivated me to tackle my upper timing chain gaskets. I've got the driver one off already. Tomorrow it goes back on and the passenger comes off. So there is that. Not much consolation.

Here's my hood damage:

20181218_100555.jpg

EDIT:

Add "voltage regulator" (It's really a thermostat for the Oil Cooler, doesn't even have power. Really BMW?? What are you guys smoking??) to the list of carnage. Broke the plastic housing clean in two. Course I didn't notice until my uber expensive BMW Blue coolant stated to all leak back out after fixing everything else..... ***SIGH****

EDIT part II:
It took four rounds of fixing, putting back together, filling, and finding more leaks.

Round 1:
Upper radiator hose
power steering hose clamp
fan
fan clutch
expansion tank w/sensor and brass bleeder screw

Round 2:
Trans oil cooler thermostat
lower radiator hose
radiator to cooler hose

Round 3:
2x O-rings for Trans cooler thermostat housing and cooler itself
1x O-ring for thermostat to hard line to waterpump

Round 4:
Temp sensor in lower hose (just need O-ring but I was tired of the mail order waiting game)

That's 3 times I fixed then filled to find I had new leaks!! Fun times.

[haynes740]

Thank you for that honest testimony sir. If no one else hears you I do.


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[SpeedyE38]

Thanks for the PSA.

Question for you, does it matter if the fan is plastic?

[haynes740]

Thanks for the PSA.

Question for you, does it matter if the fan is plastic?

No it doesn’t when that fan is spinning up to speed it might as well be metal. They get brittle and shatter.


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[georgebest]

...and use only Behr or OEM clutches

[haynes740]

...and use only Behr or OEM clutches

yes forgot to add that or Zionsville if the budget allows LoL


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[951Dreams]

I bought Behr as a replacement. That is also what the OEM one I removed is. It's stamped with the BMW logo and part number as I'm sure it was the stock one.

The design seems almost identical, but I did notice the stock one has some exposed ball bearings that are not greased just under the nut. If the new one I got has them they are covered and not exposed. I'm not sure if that's an improvement in the new part, or a sign of failure in the old part. I'm hoping its a design improvement. I'd hope they learned a thing or two in the last 20 years.

[951Dreams]

Thanks for the PSA.

Question for you, does it matter if the fan is plastic?

As far as I know, they are all plastic. I suppose someone makes a metal aftermarket, but I couldn't even imagine what it would look like if the fan had been metal.

In fact I lucked out. Some have reported full on holes in the hood! I think the only thing that spared me MORE damage is it let go at a low RPM. If it had let go at high RPM I'd hate to see how much worse it would have been!!

[01740ISP]

Yep, I was so paranoid when I saw pics here on the forum, that I replaced mine a few years back as part of the cooling system overhaul for piece of mind.

-Messan

[chucknorium]

That is why I deleted mine. And 20bhp bump

[951Dreams]

UGH!!!!!

UUUUGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Screw BMW and their fans!!!! (I know, my fault, I should have replaced it sooner. But really!!! Never seen anything like this!!!!)

So got everything back together. 1.5 days of work (cause I did my upper timing cover gaskets as well). Ready to wrap this up and take it for a drive. Fill it up with BMW blue, getting ready to put the airbox/MAF back on and what do I hear??? The sweet sound of water on concrete. It took a minute, but sure enough I've got a growing blue puddle forming under the car.

Check ALL the hoses I messed with....none are leaking. Hmmm... Break out the jack, jump on the creeper.... WTH IS THAT THING!!!

So my Oil/Transmission(?} finned cooler thingie is leaking. Well, to be honest, it's the "voltage regulator (really BMW, who decided what to call things in your engineering department, and what were they smoking???)". After much searching, and much head shaking over BMW's insane naming of things, I've found the part and got it ordered.

One of the fan blades hit that dang plastic thing and broke off the end that hooks to the bottom of the radiator. The "Radiator to cooler hose" where it attaches to the cooler. Took the whole end off!!! Parts ordered, now I just need to figure out how to get the dang cooler off!!!

*sigh*

I'm really starting to wonder if I shouldn't have just called this incident a "total loss" and just gotten a new car.... I'm only slightly kidding. I've done more work on this car than I care to even think about lately. And I haven't even started it yet after the timing chain covers, so I'm expecting cam sensor errors. I bent one of the tabs on the cam removing the VANOS solenoid, so even if I got the cover seated good I'm sure with my luck on this car I didn't get it bent back to the perfect gap and it's going to throw errors.

UGH.

I'm not even going to tempt the German car God's by asking "What next?"

Shoot, too late....

[georgebest]

UGH!!!!!

UUUUGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Screw BMW and their fans!!!! (I know, my fault, I should have replaced it sooner. But really!!! Never seen anything like this!!!!)

So got everything back together. 1.5 days of work (cause I did my upper timing cover gaskets as well). Ready to wrap this up and take it for a drive. Fill it up with BMW blue, getting ready to put the airbox/MAF back on and what do I hear??? The sweet sound of water on concrete. It took a minute, but sure enough I've got a growing blue puddle forming under the car.

Check ALL the hoses I messed with....none are leaking. Hmmm... Break out the jack, jump on the creeper.... WTH IS THAT THING!!!

So my Oil/Transmission(?} finned cooler thingie is leaking. Well, to be honest, it's the "voltage regulator (really BMW, who decided what to call things in your engineering department, and what were they smoking???)". After much searching, and much head shaking over BMW's insane naming of things, I've found the part and got it ordered.

One of the fan blades hit that dang plastic thing and broke off the end that hooks to the bottom of the radiator. The "Radiator to cooler hose" where it attaches to the cooler. Took the whole end off!!! Parts ordered, now I just need to figure out how to get the dang cooler off!!!

*sigh*

I'm really starting to wonder if I shouldn't have just called this incident a "total loss" and just gotten a new car.... I'm only slightly kidding. I've done more work on this car than I care to even think about lately. And I haven't even started it yet after the timing chain covers, so I'm expecting cam sensor errors. I bent one of the tabs on the cam removing the VANOS solenoid, so even if I got the cover seated good I'm sure with my luck on this car I didn't get it bent back to the perfect gap and it's going to throw errors.

UGH.

I'm not even going to tempt the German car God's by asking "What next?"

Shoot, too late....

I'm with you. I have had probably the same feeling about the car 6-8 months ago. The good news is though when you fixed all issues it becomes reliable and fun to own. For me it was a long way and a lot of money to get there, but I stupidly bought one that was neglected by previous owner.

Transmission cooler: easy to remove it. The "voltage regulator" what is actually a thermostat can be hard to remove from the cooler itself though, especially if you keep the oil lines connected. You need torx bits to do it, dont remember on size but probably was T30, mine was badly stuck. When you are there I would replace the two coolant hoses as well, they are quite cheap. Here is the drawing: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_2267
There is one going into the alternator #4 and another going into the radiator #5, I'd also replace the o-ring #7 on the third hose #6. You might consider to replace that hose #6 as well, that's the one going into the water pump and only way to replace it with removing the transmission cooler, what you are doing anyway now. I think it's generally a good practice to replace all old hoses when working on a part, unless PO has done it before., they are usually cheap and can save you from a lot of trouble,
If not replacing the hoses make sure that the one going into the radiator #4 not missing an o-ring on the regulator side. It's inside the hose, you can't buy it separately. My old hose was missing it and it started leaking quite badly.
Good luck!

[951Dreams]

I'm with you. I have had probably the same feeling about the car 6-8 months ago. The good news is though when you fixed all issues it becomes reliable and fun to own. For me it was a long way and a lot of money to get there, but I stupidly bought one that was neglected by previous owner.

Transmission cooler: easy to remove it. The "voltage regulator" what is actually a thermostat can be hard to remove from the cooler itself though, especially if you keep the oil lines connected. You need torx bits to do it, dont remember on size but probably was T30, mine was badly stuck. When you are there I would replace the two coolant hoses as well, they are quite cheap. Here is the drawing: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_2267
There is one going into the alternator #4 and another going into the radiator #5, I'd also replace the o-ring #7 on the third hose #6. You might consider to replace that hose #6 as well, that's the one going into the water pump and only way to replace it with removing the transmission cooler, what you are doing anyway now. I think it's generally a good practice to replace all old hoses when working on a part, unless PO has done it before., they are usually cheap and can save you from a lot of trouble,
If not replacing the hoses make sure that the one going into the radiator #4 not missing an o-ring on the regulator side. It's inside the hose, you can't buy it separately. My old hose was missing it and it started leaking quite badly.
Good luck!

Tips on removal? There's isn't a lot out there, but I've read everything from removing the bumper to removing the wheel liner. Anything is helpful.

[georgebest]

Tips on removal? There's isn't a lot out there, but I've read everything from removing the bumper to removing the wheel liner. Anything is helpful.

No need to remove any of those! Remove the coolant hoses first, then the bolts securing it to the lower timing cover. Only one bolt is kind of difficult to access, but you can do that without removing the wheel. Just needs an ordinary socket extension. Keep the transmission oil lines on, no need to remove them. Once the cooler is off, you will have two(?) torx bolts to remove the voltage regulator from the cooler. Installation is just the same in reverse. For me it would take approx 1.5 hour, for anybody else 30 minutes
Replacing the upper timing covers are much more challenging, this is nothing compared to that. You will find it easy.
Also, check if regulator comes with o-ring #4 from here, cause you definitely need that: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=17_0162

[951Dreams]

Ok, well, got everything in today for round 2. Hose from bottom of radiator to cooler, new lower radiator hose cause the water pump side of mine was shot (Someone had used the wrong O-ring on the quick connect. No idea how they got it back together or how it didn't leak. ~I~ couldn't get it to work, so new hose) The new thermostat thingie, and #4 O-rings (or so I thought).

Well, turns out @georgebest knows what the hell he's talking about. I got the wrong o-rings. This thing has been poking out of my garage for a week now. It's too long to work on with my work bench in there if it's pulled in all the way. I really wanted to get it going tonight before the neighbors call the POA on me. So I tried putting it back together with the original O-rings. Yeah..... it leaked like crazy from both the fittings. I've got the CORRECT o-rings ordered now, and also the one for the hard line to the water pump. Sooo.... round 3 starts sometime next week.

I am going to call BMW in the morning, before those rings ship, and see if they MIGHT have any in stock. I really need this thing moved!! If they do I'll cancel my order. If not, well, I guess the neighbors will have to deal for another week.

Just as a side note, I've bought a house out in the country. 6 acres, no neighbors, close next month. Existing 24x30 building for car work. Plans for a 50x40 4 car garage/shop are in the works. 75% of the reason I'm moving was so the POA can suck it and stop having meltdowns about me working on my cars.... How's that for dedication to my cars!!! Stupid things cost me 6 figures!!! LOL

Also I'll be doing a write-up for this thing, with all the part numbers and step by step instructions. Haven't really found a good one out there, and the part numbers should help anyone else that has to do this thing.

[Johns01E38]

Dude thats AWESOME!! you will LOVE having your own land. March 2018 I did the exact same thing as you. Fed up living in town, I found a place about 15 minutes away from the city. Nice ranch style house (no stairs), 30x40 shop, 30x40 barn, 2 fenced in pastures. Paved access. My utilities are cheaper, my taxes are lower, my vehicle fees are lower, my stuff is safer, my dogs can run, my kids can play, plenty of parking, etc etc etc.
Maybe the best of all is pulling out of my driveway onto the highway and flooring it! Personal testing strip in front of my house!!

Just as a side note, I've bought a house out in the country. 6 acres, no neighbors, close next month. Existing 24x30 building for car work. Plans for a 50x40 4 car garage/shop are in the works. 75% of the reason I'm moving was so the POA can suck it and stop having meltdowns about me working on my cars.... How's that for dedication to my cars!!! Stupid things cost me 6 figures!!! LOL

Also I'll be doing a write-up for this thing, with all the part numbers and step by step instructions. Haven't really found a good one out there, and the part numbers should help anyone else that has to do this thing.

[georgebest]

Ok, well, got everything in today for round 2. Hose from bottom of radiator to cooler, new lower radiator hose cause the water pump side of mine was shot (Someone had used the wrong O-ring on the quick connect. No idea how they got it back together or how it didn't leak. ~I~ couldn't get it to work, so new hose) The new thermostat thingie, and #4 O-rings (or so I thought).

Well, turns out @georgebest knows what the hell he's talking about. I got the wrong o-rings. This thing has been poking out of my garage for a week now. It's too long to work on with my work bench in there if it's pulled in all the way. I really wanted to get it going tonight before the neighbors call the POA on me. So I tried putting it back together with the original O-rings. Yeah..... it leaked like crazy from both the fittings. I've got the CORRECT o-rings ordered now, and also the one for the hard line to the water pump. Sooo.... round 3 starts sometime next week.

I am going to call BMW in the morning, before those rings ship, and see if they MIGHT have any in stock. I really need this thing moved!! If they do I'll cancel my order. If not, well, I guess the neighbors will have to deal for another week.

Just as a side note, I've bought a house out in the country. 6 acres, no neighbors, close next month. Existing 24x30 building for car work. Plans for a 50x40 4 car garage/shop are in the works. 75% of the reason I'm moving was so the POA can suck it and stop having meltdowns about me working on my cars.... How's that for dedication to my cars!!! Stupid things cost me 6 figures!!! LOL

Also I'll be doing a write-up for this thing, with all the part numbers and step by step instructions. Haven't really found a good one out there, and the part numbers should help anyone else that has to do this thing.

Those o-rings are a b..ch. Glad you ordered them. Again, make sure that you have the one inside the hose between the regulator and radiator, on the regulator side. You cant order that separately, it comes with the hose,. Good luck!

[951Dreams]

Those o-rings are a b..ch. Glad you ordered them. Again, make sure that you have the one inside the hose between the regulator and radiator, on the regulator side. You cant order that separately, it comes with the hose,. Good luck!

I do! I ordered the hose in round 2!

[951Dreams]

Dude thats AWESOME!! you will LOVE having your own land. March 2018 I did the exact same thing as you. Fed up living in town, I found a place about 15 minutes away from the city. Nice ranch style house (no stairs), 30x40 shop, 30x40 barn, 2 fenced in pastures. Paved access. My utilities are cheaper, my taxes are lower, my vehicle fees are lower, my stuff is safer, my dogs can run, my kids can play, plenty of parking, etc etc etc.
Maybe the best of all is pulling out of my driveway onto the highway and flooring it! Personal testing strip in front of my house!!

Yep, same here. I have the same check list!! I only add the ability to expand and build what I want, where I want, how I want! Unlimited potential! The only downside (kinda) is my land is on a hill. Dirt work is required and extra engineering for retaining walls and drainage. So anything I do will be a little more expensive than most projects. But I also like the idea of being able to built "levels" to my land. The house is an underground (berm) house, sits just about perfectly center on the land. The way the driveway runs, I could build a detached outdoor area below the house. Think fire pit with built in seating, hot tub, bar, grill, pool, maybe a small pool house. The area would be hidden from both the house, the driveway, and the road. No one would have any idea it existed till I took them down there. I have this long term idea of having all these "hidden" areas below, beside, and above the house. As you explore around you find just more and more things to discover! LOL

Course, I need to win the lottery to do most of them!!

Back to cars. All my power steering fluid had leaked out when I pulled it into the garage to start this work. I figured the fan had knocked a hole in one of the lines. Investigation showed there were no "holes" but the leak seemed to be coming from a hose clamp area. It was 100% lose with no pressure. Weird I thought, a piece of fan must have hit it in such a way to cause it to release. I was able to start tightening it back up, but once I got it tight the bolt in the clamp broke. Replaced it with a "normal" hose clamp I had handy. That seemed to fix the leak. But last night while I was doing the work on the trans/oil cooler, I noticed some red from those lines. It seemed that while the impact didn't put cuts or holes in the lines, it did damage the rubber to metal connections right where they go into the radiator, they are weeping slightly. And that's just sitting there with no pressure in the system.

Those hoses are NOT CHEAP. So my total, WITHOUT the hood, is looking at getting up to 600-700 dollars!!!! All due to a $100 dollar fan/clutch.

[georgebest]

Yep, same here. I have the same check list!! I only add the ability to expand and build what I want, where I want, how I want! Unlimited potential! The only downside (kinda) is my land is on a hill. Dirt work is required and extra engineering for retaining walls and drainage. So anything I do will be a little more expensive than most projects. But I also like the idea of being able to built "levels" to my land. The house is an underground (berm) house, sits just about perfectly center on the land. The way the driveway runs, I could build a detached outdoor area below the house. Think fire pit with built in seating, hot tub, bar, grill, pool, maybe a small pool house. The area would be hidden from both the house, the driveway, and the road. No one would have any idea it existed till I took them down there. I have this long term idea of having all these "hidden" areas below, beside, and above the house. As you explore around you find just more and more things to discover! LOL

Course, I need to win the lottery to do most of them!!

Back to cars. All my power steering fluid had leaked out when I pulled it into the garage to start this work. I figured the fan had knocked a hole in one of the lines. Investigation showed there were no "holes" but the leak seemed to be coming from a hose clamp area. It was 100% lose with no pressure. Weird I thought, a piece of fan must have hit it in such a way to cause it to release. I was able to start tightening it back up, but once I got it tight the bolt in the clamp broke. Replaced it with a "normal" hose clamp I had handy. That seemed to fix the leak. But last night while I was doing the work on the trans/oil cooler, I noticed some red from those lines. It seemed that while the impact didn't put cuts or holes in the lines, it did damage the rubber to metal connections right where they go into the radiator, they are weeping slightly. And that's just sitting there with no pressure in the system.

Those hoses are NOT CHEAP. So my total, WITHOUT the hood, is looking at getting up to 600-700 dollars!!!! All due to a $100 dollar fan/clutch.

This was probably a blessing in disguise, cause everything you have listed so far were parts that you would have to replace anyway Not the hood of course.
Dont forget to order new washers for the new PS hoses #7 & #4, you need two from both: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_0694

[951Dreams]

Ok, so the o-rings came in yesterday, and round 3 started. There was also a round 4, but I'll get to that in a minute.

So, I threw the new o-rings on. The plastic thermostat slid right on, very easy. I had to fight it on with the old o-rings. Hmmm... then it went on the hard tube with it's new o-ring very easy. Almost no resistance. I was worried. Got everything screwed back together. Filled her up. No leaks!! WOOT!!!

So I wanted to make sure there were no leaks under pressure, before I took it off the jack. Went to start her up, and she wouldn't turn over. At all. Threw on my battery charger, yep battery dead. Noticed even the clock/computer had reset. My charger kept kicking off saying the battery was bad. I reconditioned it for a few, then tried charging again. Still kept telling me my battery was bad after a minute or two. I tried the "start" setting on my charger. It caught for a moment then died. After that first try I didn't have enough juice left to turn it over again. Reconditioned it for awhile again (because otherwise it just kept shutting off). After a bit I hit the "start" function again, and gave it a go. It turned over very slowly, but finally caught and ran. It acted like it was missing for a bit, then after about 1-2 mins it straightened out and run smooth as silk. Did that when I did the valve covers and intake as well. Computer relearning?? Dunno.

So I let it idle for about 3-4 minutes, watching for leaks. Oil, power steering fluid, coolant... anything. Then it started leaking coolant again once it warmed up, around the bottom hose. Got under it and figured out it was the temp sensor in the new bottom hose. CRAP!!! Turned it off, leak stopped after a few minutes (after the pressure left the system).

I'm dreading ANOTHER week of waiting for a part. I hit the internet and found Autozone sells a URO one. Called them up. 2-3 days. Looked up O'reilly web site. They didn't have the URO, but they showed several other brands. Course none in stock at my store.... Then I noticed one said "Click here to check nearby stores". Clicked, and one about 8 miles farther out showed them as IN STOCK!! So I called, because what's the chance? Sure enough, he had two!!! Hot damn! He even went back and checked, sure enough he had them!! I said I'll be right there!!

He had it waiting for me when I got there. Got back home and debated best way to change it. I didn't really want to drain the whole system again. I decided to put a bucket under the hose and pop the old one out and work quickly to get the new one in. Got all ready to get a coolant bath, popped the old one out.... and nothing! Ohhhhh kkkkkk... Anyway, popped the new one in, scratching my head, and made sure the system was still full. It was. Started it up, let it get warm, no leaks!!!

But also no heat! Tried bleeding the system. Still no heat. Revved it up. No heat. Hmmm...

Got it all put back together, got it off the jack, pulled it out, and went for a drive. Started getting heat as soon as I took off. However it wasn't a lot of heat. Drove down the road a couple of miles and pulled into Walmart. Heat went cold. Driving home it would go cold if I stopped, and would cycle hot/cold while moving. The higher the RPM the hotter it would get. Came up my hill heading home, and noticed the temp gauge shoot up the the 3rd mark. First time it had moved off center! I'd been watching. Then the coolant warning came on, and the temp went back down. I thought "it finally got the air pocket out!" but then it started going cold again and the coolant warning went away. This was about a mile from my house. Pulled it into my driveway backwards (I have a very steep driveway, wanted the nose uphill) and checked the coolant. I was expecting that air bubble to have lowered the level. But it was only slightly lower than when I left the house. Crap!

Went through the whole bleeder screw, pump upper hose, fill to top dance. I was able to pump some more coolant into the system but there was still a lot of air in the top hose. After about 15 mins I could not get the level to do down any more pumping the hose, so I bottled it all back up and decided to take a trip on the freeway. See if I could pass that air pocket. Most of the time I had at least some heat, but it kept cycling warm/hot/warm/hot. When I finally slowed down to turn around, it more or less went cold again. No change on the way back. Also, with ignition in position II, heater on, engine off, I see no sign of the auc pump running. I think I hear it, but no coolant is circulating. As it was now too hot to work on, I parked it nose uphill and I've left it for another round tomorrow. I'll try longer to burp it then. See what happens.

On a positive note, so far no signs of leaks. Oil, power steering fluid, or coolant. FINALLY!! I am a bit worried about the battery dying. That was weird. Unless having the hood open can somehow drain the battery I'm not sure why it would have died. Nothing was on. But hood was up for 3 weeks. It's charged up now and seems fine.

Update on my burping progress tomorrow. Wish me luck!

[georgebest]

Good progress! Not sure how to put it though....your auxiliary pump is probably dead. Do you have a scanner for all errors (not just engine and transmission)? Like INPA or similar. That would show the pump error. Rather only check the price when you are sitting... On the flip side, many people running their cars without a working aux. pump, it's just heating up slower a bit, it also makes bleeding more difficult, exactly what you described.

[951Dreams]

Yes, I have INPA. Need to set it up again on my new laptop however. However I don't remember seeing a aux pump code. Maybe I just didn't have enough air out yet? More bleeding work today. We'll see.

[georgebest]

I dont remember which module you need to read for the pump, I would guess IHK. People who has all kind of bleeding issues often has a faulty pump. Cause you need to run the pump when filling it up and that moves the water so the air comes out. But if nothing moving the water air pockets could remain in the system.

[Timm]

A pump that works is good, a removed pump is good - a dead pump still in place is bad!