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Thread: E39 Touring Values?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    In a word.... no.

    A RHD car is a big PITA for a street car.

    When its a crazy rare vintage JDM Toyota 2000GT or Nissan whatever or Aston Martin or Austin Healey or Jag or Lotus or whatever... Hey great, drive around on wrong side of the car and everybody will think its amazing and you are the coolest guy in town.

    For a regular car... its mostly not a pleasant enhancement to the driving experience.

    Well.... Unless you're a mail carrier or paperboy.
    In which case, yes then it might just be very handy.
    Maybe you can sell it to a paperboy.
    Exactly, and it’ll always have less value than the equivalent LHD version + it’ll be wayyyy harder to sell if the day comes. It would drive me nuts having the huge visibility/safety shortcomings of a RHD car in a LHD country.

  2. #27
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    Hi,

    Just for you all in the USA who've most likely never driven a right hand drive car in a left hand drive country, I fully understand where you are all currently coming from. It's very rare to the point many USA residents might not have even seen a RHD car at all, and it's thus naturally to be expected it'd be 'difficult' or 'would drive you nuts'.

    In direct and opposite response, the UK is a right hand drive country and we drive on the left side of the road. Crucially, its very easy to legally drive a left hand drive car here and many people did import cars from the continent in left hand drive which were significantly cheaper than the UK specific RHD models. Over the years the price differential hasn't been so great so that end of the market sort of reduced. There's still many LHD cars here though, in our family we've had two 2003 F150 Harley Davidson Anniversary Edition trucks for instance.

    It's a lot easier than you'd think to drive a car with the steering wheel on the opposite side you are used to. The UK roads in general are smaller than USA ones and I managed to drive the F150 in and around central London on many occasions. Overtaking becomes more of an art as you hang back a little and gently move to the middle of the road to 'see' whats up ahead and press on once you know it's clear (can also look along the 'inside' too !) going to fast food places, drive thru banks, car parks is bit of an issue, I used to use one of those litter 'grabbers' so just wind the window down, prod the button and out would pop the ticket and you could then 'grab' it whilst stretched out across the seat a little!

    Apart from these little bits, it was no real hassle. So you guys in the USA who are car enthusiasts could easily manage ! I can see non enthusiasts bichin and moaning though !

    I think the main market in the USA for a right hand drive car will be a classic or sought after example of the usual brands as mentioned. Less so for BMW's as you guys got most of the same models as over here. It's the specific models that weren't in the USA that you could perhaps see someone with deep pockets importing and federalizing it. The E39 Champagne 1 and 2 editions were UK only ones, along with the Aegean Edition ones. The Diesel variants a possible contender for really good examples and then perhaps the Alpina B10 examples.

    I'd love to bring my 530d over to the US temporarily for perhaps 1/2 months and drive around the country !

    Cheers, Dennis!

  3. #28
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    Hey Dennis, I’ve had many RHD British cars over here in the past, I had a ,69 MGC, ‘72, MGB, and a whole bunch of Cooper S’s ranging from ‘68 to ‘91 that me and later on, my father brought in from your side of the pond. I had a guy in Amsterdam, and my dad had a guy in England finding them for us. It’s only a $1000 to ship a car to Baltimore, MD, here on the East Coast. When driving a RHD car here, your method of hanging back to get a look is the usual way, but I would also ride onto the shoulder, see that it’s clear, pucker up and shoot over and pass, but sometimes you wonder....
    On a ‘71 Cooper that I had back in the early 2000’s, I mounted a lipstick camera with a fisheye lens mounted looking forward, bracket machined out of aluminum, mounted between the left rear view mirror and the door. Worked like a champ with a 5” monitor mounted on the ledge next to the speedo cluster in the center of the dash ledge. Quite a contrast between old and new, but it worked well.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisCooper View Post
    Hi,

    Just for you all in the USA who've most likely never driven a right hand drive car in a left hand drive country, I fully understand where you are all currently coming from. It's very rare to the point many USA residents might not have even seen a RHD car at all, and it's thus naturally to be expected it'd be 'difficult' or 'would drive you nuts'.

    In direct and opposite response, the UK is a right hand drive country and we drive on the left side of the road. Crucially, its very easy to legally drive a left hand drive car here and many people did import cars from the continent in left hand drive which were significantly cheaper than the UK specific RHD models. Over the years the price differential hasn't been so great so that end of the market sort of reduced. There's still many LHD cars here though, in our family we've had two 2003 F150 Harley Davidson Anniversary Edition trucks for instance.

    It's a lot easier than you'd think to drive a car with the steering wheel on the opposite side you are used to. The UK roads in general are smaller than USA ones and I managed to drive the F150 in and around central London on many occasions. Overtaking becomes more of an art as you hang back a little and gently move to the middle of the road to 'see' whats up ahead and press on once you know it's clear (can also look along the 'inside' too !) going to fast food places, drive thru banks, car parks is bit of an issue, I used to use one of those litter 'grabbers' so just wind the window down, prod the button and out would pop the ticket and you could then 'grab' it whilst stretched out across the seat a little!

    Apart from these little bits, it was no real hassle. So you guys in the USA who are car enthusiasts could easily manage ! I can see non enthusiasts bichin and moaning though !

    I think the main market in the USA for a right hand drive car will be a classic or sought after example of the usual brands as mentioned. Less so for BMW's as you guys got most of the same models as over here. It's the specific models that weren't in the USA that you could perhaps see someone with deep pockets importing and federalizing it. The E39 Champagne 1 and 2 editions were UK only ones, along with the Aegean Edition ones. The Diesel variants a possible contender for really good examples and then perhaps the Alpina B10 examples.

    I'd love to bring my 530d over to the US temporarily for perhaps 1/2 months and drive around the country !

    Cheers, Dennis!
    Well I respectfully disagree Dennis about driving me nuts. I've driven a few RHD cars here at home, moreso when our 15yr import rule allowed an influx of 90's JDM cars to be registered, so I do speak from experience. All of a sudden in the mid-> late 2000's, unique RHD Skylines, Delica's, etc.....were popping up on the streets.

    Most of them have been mentioned, but here are my experiences which turned me off the idea of ever buying RHD:

    1. LH turns: get used to people honking/swearing at you while you're 1st in line, waiting for the light to turn red because you can't see past the car facing the opposite direction also turning left, even though the road is clear. This may have been a moot point when you were in your F-150 sitting up high, but in a normal car or one where you sit low - it is a major hindrance. Over here pick ups and SUV's are a staple and are competition for visibilty when in front of you, in Europe they are more of a rarity.
    2. Passing on a two lane road: very dangerous unless you want to roll the dice or drift into the shoulder so you can see past the car which you want to pass. Again, over here pick ups and SUV's are a staple and are competition for visibilty.
    3. Turning around a blind RH corner: don't know what waiting for you (or coming your way) until you're more invested than a LHD car.
    4. Underground parking & attendants, drive throughs, toll booths, etc... involve you getting out of the car to open the door jump out/deal with the attendant, swipe card, pay money, and so forth. Not trivial if you deal with it multiple times a day & some parkade entrances/exits are just not designed to open car doors within.
    5. As I already mentioned: in my area equivalent RHD cars are worth a lot less + and are extremely hard to sell until you find "that guy" that is looking for what you have. I've seen countless RHD, low mileage, mint, cheaper examples for sale advertised for long periods of time because 99.999% of the driving public does not want them.
    6. Turning on the wipers instead of the turn signals and vise versa, because they are crossed in RHD: if you daily drive it in conjunction with other LHD vehicles it happens when you least want it to.

    Now to clarify I'm referring to daily driving a RHD car in a LHD country - there will always be exceptions for those rare/collectable or RHD-only cars which are sought after and only driven occasionally. Now you may say get over it or learn how to deal or work around those challenges. True, but like any personal preference, it's not that it's difficult per se, but everyone has a threshold which they are willing to put up with or adapt to = not for me. I say anyone who's entertaining the idea: drive a RHD car for a week (especially in downtown metropolis), and see how much you like it, then judge.
    Last edited by whiteghost1; 02-17-2019 at 01:55 PM.

  5. #30
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    a 540iT with m-sport F/R bumpers, 155,000 miles just got posted on Ebay for $16,000.

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  6. #31
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    Totally agreed E-man!!

    Ive driven plenty of RHD in their “native environments”. It’s fine. Not a biggy. This isn’t related to the empirical merits of left or right side road driving, and CERTAINLY not about fundamentally not being able to deal with operating an RHD vehicle. I get on just fine thank you. Done it plenty. Driven all over the British isles. Spotless record thanks.

    It’s about mismatch road/car drivng.

    Other than a real vintage sports car RHD-original car where there’s some reason to do it? Driving on the wrong side of the car vs the road? Mostly just sucks. Can I do it? Sure. But mostly it just sucks. Oh no but people have done it blah blah... sure. But mostly it’s annoying. So there really needs to be a payoff. E-type RHD convertible? NO PROBLEM. Just some dumb JDM econobox? No. Regular E39 German car (aka no Japanese/UK famous history or anything...) that I can easily have w the correct steering wheel? No.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olly84 View Post
    a 540iT with m-sport F/R bumpers, 155,000 miles just got posted on Ebay for $16,000.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-BMW-5-...1:pf:1&vxp=mtr
    That's ridiculous! But hell I hope it sells for that! My car would have started appreciating again!
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  8. #33
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    $16,000, Some people have no clue how to choose drugs!
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  9. #34
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    welp, it's got 11 people watching it haha. who knows, might be super clean and had timing/vanos everything done.

    I saw a 540i with VF supercharger on sale for $10,000 on Craigslist, that seems a bit more realistic.
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  10. #35
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    Hi

    Whiteghost - I agree with all of your points and experiences, I wasn't being judgemental as such so apologies if it came across to you that way - wasn't my intention. Although I've not driven anywhere near as much as you in the US, and my perhaps 10,000 miles worth of experience there I'll add another point. That is I think general driving standards are lower by a small/marginal to detectable and mildly significant level compared to the UK (to put that into perspective, the UK often gets ridiculed by the drivers in Germany! . This only adds to the 'risks' you mention and like GG mentions, it's only really going to be very special cars that are RHD which would ever be seen on US roads. Even then, I'd go as far as to say you'd then only see them in neighbourhoods/areas that are more upmarket and where road's and space is much better which then helps to reduce the risks. In addition to the 'big' F150's, a LHD Porsche 911 and 73 Corvette was with us (not owned though) and I did have the LHD in RHD roads/country experience in a smaller car here and I agree, it was more of a hassle to drive. Other's who've had LHD cars for extended ownership times have mentioned similar, so yes, the type/size of vehicle definitely makes a difference.

    GG - Next time you're over, don't forget to let me know ! I'm only 6 miles West of Heathrow!

    Like you guys over there, we also have some dreamer's pricing on cars that get posted for sale !

    Cheers, Dennis!

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    No offence taken Mr. Cooper, you’re a class act!
    Just wanted to post my experiences for those who are contemplating the idea.

  13. #38
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    Speaking of Tourings for sale, on Bring a Trailer a 2003 540 M Sport Touring six speed with an S62 and 105k miles sold on 3/7/19 for $72,000.00!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjbaren View Post
    Speaking of Tourings for sale, on Bring a Trailer a 2003 540 M Sport Touring six speed with an S62 and 105k miles sold on 3/7/19 for $72,000.00!
    Yep. That's our friend Mr. Redshift. He used to hang out here a lot. That car was semi-twin to mine for a while (M62TU-blower-6-speed) then was S62 Supercharged, then was 'downgraded' back to "Standard M5T" level.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That price: Completely insane by the way. At that price he should open up an M5T factory building them one a month... .
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post

    That price: Completely insane by the way. At that price he should open up an M5T factory building them one a month... .
    So you agree then that at that price you can build them and profit ? When I said that, I was damn near lynched and burned.

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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manny G. View Post
    So you agree then that at that price you can build them and profit ? When I said that, I was damn near lynched and burned.
    Well I'm sure that was before some whackjob paid $72k for one.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Well I'm sure that was before some whackjob paid $72k for one.
    Unfortunately it wasnt. It was on the Bring A Circle-Jerk auction comment section.

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  18. #43
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    Heck, even if you paid a reputable indie shop to build you an M5T you'd still come out ahead...
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  19. #44
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    Depends... The Werk Shop did one and sourced the donor car for the customer which had to be $10-15k before even getting started. Then all of the labor, let’s presume it takes a few months.... 160h / month x 3 = 480 hours. Safe to presume the car isn’t getting labor all day every day so take half that, 240 hours. At $120/hr that’s a tick under $30k in labor alone.

    Now you’ve got misc parts, and the baseline car to factor in.

    Shit adds up yo


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    Well I'm gonna be doing two 540it manual swaps at my shop soon enough, so I'll see how long those take. Eventually I'd love to build M5T's at a fraction of the price of anywhere else.
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  21. #46
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    I figure there are 2 ways to go about doing this swap, the enthusiast way, and the reseller way.

    If you go the enthusiast way, any E39 touring body would be fine regardless of mileage, title status.. maybe even condition to some extent.

    But if you decide to do this swap/build, and go the reseller route.. picking the unicorn of all E39 tourings, '03 540it M-Sport would be the only way to go. It'll have to have low mileage, a clean title, and a clean body that has never had body work. If you combine this, with a low mileage well sorted S62 complete drivetrain, and the interior is solid, then there is a chance you too could sell one for $72k. Slim chance.. but maybe.


    The enthusiast way, I'd budget about $30-35k.
    $7500 or less for the E39 touring
    $7500 for an 'OK' condition, 90-130k S62, trans and diff.. max $10k.
    then spend the rest on executing the swap, the suspension, brakes... exhaust.


    Here is a decent example of an enthusiast build to start with - https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-BMW-5-...YAAOSwcaZciHy6

    And here is an excellent example of a reseller build to start with - https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-BMW-5-...4AAOSwxlxckRLF

    Stancing is for drivers trapped in an abusive relationship of their own lives.

  22. #47
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    Hey I don't have the cash for the M5T build but was wondering how much value a NOS M left foot-rest would add to my wagon? Mind you, its NOS!

    Seriously that BAT sale wuz bonkers.

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    I wanna make an offer too! beautiful car

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