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Thread: Jumping into the Touring world with a 525 5 speed

  1. #1
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    Jumping into the Touring world with a 525 5 speed

    Howdy,
    I’ve been lurking here for a good while. Project vehicles and things that aren’t exactly main stream seem to be my calling. 1967 Austin Cooper S, 1957 MGA, 1952 REO M35, 1953 Studebaker, 1967 Kaiser Jeep M715, a few early RX-7’s, Square body 4x4 3/4 ton turbo diesel Suburban and a NA Miata. There were and are others, but you get the point. As my wife says, I am a sick sick man when it comes to mechanical objects.

    Life was good. I had more projects than I needed and was happy. Then my son finished his freshman year of college and got a job near campus 70 miles from home. Commuting in a M1009 in the Texas heat was not working for him. He found a Mark 4 Jetta wagon that had a non working transmission for about nothing.

    He bought it, we cleared the transmission code and it drove great. We changed all the transmission solenoids and the wiring harness. Then we did all the front suspension parts and a few other things to get it road worthy. He did 5,000 miles over the summer with a mountain bike trip to Colorado thrown in. He loved it and I got to work on German stuff again. I remembered how much I liked the little things in the designs and pretty much how easy they are to work on. Then there was the performance. They are just better in my opinion.

    Add in how versatile the wagon is and I wanted one of my own. However, I really love driving the Miata. Rear wheel drive and amazing handling. But, I need more room some time. Plus no matter how cold the a/c is at the vent. When your head is an inch from a canvas top. You are still hot. I wanted a full size car with rear wheel drive, ice cold a/c, manual transmission, good cornering ability, excellent highway manners and be mechanical workable. Only an BMW seemed to fit the bill.

    We looked at several, drove a few different generation sedans. 3 series was too small. E28 cars were too wore out. I almost bit on a 1994 E34 530 sedan but the small V8 and recirculating ball steering along with it not being a wagon just made it not right. I was convinced I wanted a six cylinder manual shift E39 Touring.

    I found what I thought was THE car 200 miles away 2 months ago. 2003 525/5 with a salvage title. Nobody wanted it because of the title and it had 187k miles. The owner was not only a car guy, but a BMW guy. He had driven it 30,000 miles in the past few years while replacing the entire cooling system, brakes, suspension, SAP, CCV and normal maintenance. It was salvage because the guy he got it from was backed into. The front valence forward was messed up. He had a 540 donor car to get it back together. He also threw on the staggered 540 wheels. Then it went through a hail storm that got the hood a bunch and a few spots on the rest of the car.

    I don’t care about a salvage title on a 16 year old car or a few hail dents. I wanted mechanical soundness. So my wife and I drove 4 hours the Sunday before thanksgiving and looked at it. We liked it. A bunch. Except for the stock seats. They had the twist. The owner threw in a set of E38 sport comfort seats and I bought the car. I drove away smiling as my wife followed in the Accord.

    A mile later I pulled into a gas station and the check engine light came on. Uh-oh. Then my wife told me it was smoking. It was 40° out and every car was putting out visible exhaust at the lights. She said the 525 was putting out way more than other cars at a stop and when moving only it was. Hmmm. We set out for home while I am wondering about head gasket health. Then while downshifting for the light before I got on the interstate. It died. I let the clutch out and it fired up again. But, was barely running.

    I called the previous owner up and he said bring it back since I was just a mile away. It was a lean bank 1 code but it would barely run. He gave me my money back and we drove home without the car. A week later I reached out to the guy to find out what he determined about the car.

    He replaced the intake boot behind the MAF and it didn’t help even though it had a few leaks. Then he did the fuel filter and found it had a 10/02 build date on it and he couldn’t even blow through it. The car has a 12/18/02 build date. He then drove it a few hundred trouble free miles. So I told him if he could drive the car to me. I would buy it again. Last weekend he did and I did.

    I put the E38 seats in and have only put 100 or so miles on it since. I tried to register it during the week but the one time I could get there. The office was closed for a Christmas party. I will get it done sometime this week and then get to put some miles on it and start doing what needs to be done to base line it. So far, I really am impressed with the road feel and comfort combination.

    Here is how it looks.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Nice! Fun fact, the 3.0L engine from an E39 530i is essentially plug and play into your wagon if you want some more power down the line
    1995 525i 5-speed - Thread

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the tip on the I6 swap. The late E34 530 was the baby V8.

  4. #4
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    Nice find Congrats and Welcome to the forums.


  5. #5
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    500 mile update time.

    When I got the car, the headlights were aimed at the top of the front bumper. The adjusters were broken and the drivers side low beam bulb wasn't even in it's slot. Basically, the lights sucked. I pulled each bucket, confirmed the adjusters were bad, ordered replacements, polished the lenses and put them back in with zip ties to point down the road until I can do the adjusters.

    Now that I could drive at night. I was able to get to know the car a bit. Loose shifter that makes it so I have to think and feel going into 3rd or I end up in 5th by mistake. I will do the gear oil change because it needs it and give all the shifter linkage parts a good look at that time. Along with how the old oil looks. Probably just going to be the bushings so I plan to do a 545 short shifter swap later. Coming from a Miata, the 525 has almost a truck shifter throw.

    It still puts out a good bit of visible exhaust even after the car is warmed up. It isn't using oil or coolant. The SAP sounds like a turbo prop doing a pre flight prop check though so I imagine that will have something to do with it once I get to messing with that.

    Both of my dogs fit in the area behind the seat. We took them to the vet the other day. Much easier to load the pair of 100 pound plus dogs in the Touring than into one of my square body Chevy SUV's.

    I did 140 miles in severe rain yesterday at 70-75 mph speed limits with a howling wind. The car is very stable and I love the rain sensing wipers. Only got 22 mpg though. I think the wide 540 wheels and tires have something to do with that. A lot of rolling resistance in the rain at those speeds.

    Then there is the HVAC or whatever the German abbreviation for that is. What is the point of having dual climate control zones when what comes out the face vents is the same on both sides? My wife likes the air coming out of the vents to be cold enough to hang beef. I prefer it a bit warmer though. I just closed my vents on our drive yesterday. I have read the manual on that system several times and no matter how I have it set. If she is comfortable, I am cold.

    Overall, the car is doing just what I was looking for. Close to the fun factor of the Miata, way better drive, handling and comfort of the Accord and easier around town and doing errands than my big 4x4 trucks.

    I plan to do the engine oil/filter, transmission oil, rear end oil, brake fluid/clutch fluid flush and a few other deferred maintenance items in the next few weeks. Then a cooling system redo in a few months. Maybe, maybe that will keep it as dependable as the Miata and Accord. Maybe.

  6. #6
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    It’s a BMW, not a Miata or an Accord. To keep that thing happy, you will have to spend some dime and some time maintaining it so. The reward, the feeling of satisfaction as you drive the car and know that it is still on the road, driving like it’s supposed to. It’s definitely not like those Japanese things on 4 wheels.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  7. #7
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Meh. I like your wife better than you. Eff all you "waaah I'm cold" losers. COLDAIR4LYFE AMIRITE!?!?!

    Srsly.. seems like youre' on track but you got a lotta lapsed crap to catch up on.

    Here's the wife face blasting dildealio: Part of the issue yer wrestling with is probably the dash temp dial, (i ferget what BMW calls it theres some name for it but the dial with the red-to-blue dots) which indeed is for both sides of the center vents. The left / right HVAC settings (BMW calls it IHKA module BTW... you'll pick up on all the useless trivia like that eventually) are really mainly for proportioning the foot-well outputs.

    That dash dial is the "face blaster manual temp override" basically. So if you want to drive w/ windows or 'roof open when its cold out, you can blast heat at your face without your feet then melting from overheat. Or, if you want (like me and your wife) some cool face air all the time when there's sun blasting through the windows, without totally freezing out the rest of the car, you can set it to blue, but the footy area will stay normal toasty warm regulated to the dash temp setting.

    Its a bit unusual feature, and n00bz take a while to get used to it (my bud w/ a 530i still doesn't quite get it I dont think... he's always in agony fiddling with his AC settings and bitching it doesn't work but he just refuses to get how the system works...) but its one of my favorite old BMW interior features.

    Now how you work crap out with yer wife I dunno but it may be if you set that dial to a slightly warmer temp then you can find a place where you both can live with it. Or you can try slightly warmer temp and not completely shutting your side off but pointing them high/low so you're not quite so face blasted. Really struggling to not make more wife face blast innuendo references so I'm gonna move on.

    Do the shifter linkage stuff sooner than later. It's a minor ballache to get completely done with the transmission in, ship in a bottle type crap, but it can be done. Yes use the E60 parts. It should go back to being like new if you do the key stuff.

    The gas mileage? Prob about right for a 525 with a lotta age on it. The 2.5 probably suffers from the old "you have to thrash it harder to get it to move so you actually get worse mileage unless you drive like super granny" syndrome. A 525 is a bit of a dog and if you get the foot into it to try to make up for that the mileage is gonna blow. Again, the age ain't helpin. But you can try oil change and plugs and boots and whatnot and see if it comes up a bit.

    Re: the dogs - hell yeah. After driving around for a year plus with the back down 90% of the time so the dog could have more space, but then having to convert for passengers, and, constantly having to clean the beach sand and dog fur up out of the cargo area sides (even with tons of moving blankets lining the space back there) I got one of those backseat-dog-hammock deals and have never looked back. Those are genius. OK maybe a little snug for 2 century-weight-class poochers but if they are calm it probably still works. Safer for the dogs than rattling around the back, and, pop that thing out and the rear seat is clean and tidy and ready for VIP passengers. We picked up a couple of those on eBay, just cheapy ones, only downside is the rubber backing wears off and left some schmutz on the seat but then I started putting a junk sheet or blanket under it when I put it in, and that solved that problem. But maybe your 2 big ass squirrel chasers are too large for that solution.

    BTW, did the car come with the cargo cover? It's got this whole feature with a retracting net, so you remount it down low to the fronts of the seats and then the net pulls up and secures to the roof to keep cargo and/or dogs from flying into the front seat when you slam the brakes on while the seats are down.
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  8. #8
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    Thanks for the tips.

    The IHKA explanation is exactly what the manual says and pretty much what I have figured out. I need to point out that I like it cold too. I’m typing this in my 52° living room in shorts and a t shirt. We haven’t turned our home heater on yet this season. However, I don’t like getting blasted by cold air when I am already cooled off. Basically, for us it is a few months of the year issue anyway. If it is over 55° out, the car AC will be on and I will want it blasting at me.

    I got the car with the temperature wheel in the center vent stuck on full cold and not feeling connected to anything. The previous owner threw in a new vent with cable. I dropped the glove box to check out the cable end and found the plastic gears were out of alignment. I popped it back in and all worked correctly. But I figured out when AUTO mode is used and the system thinks cold air needs to be come from the vents. The adjustment wheel is blocked from going to anything besides full BLUE dots. I think someone tried to force it to RED dots in the past to cause the plastic gears to jump out of the track. I have found at least one other thread where people had the jump out of alignment for those gears.

    I have a weird drive requirement for vehicles. 1/2 mile dirt road from the house I just idle in 1st gear. 1.5 mile 40 mph speed limit up hill rural road. 2 miles 35 mph with 5 traffic signals and then .5 mile of 55 mph highway to work. 10 mile or so daily round trip. Then 70 to 75 speed limit for 40 to 60 miles in any direction for shopping and medical stuff if I am not going to work.

    Basically, lots of high speed highway every tank with heavy cruise control use. I noticed this car has a pretty aggressive cruise control. Just watching the mpg needle below the tach while cruising on level road shows a steady 30 or so and then it will drop to below 15 for an instant and then back to 30 or so. I know I could get better mpg than the cruise. But darn,I didn’t buy this car for mpg’s. Those E38 sport comfort seats are so nice on the open road with my feet pulled back just a bit off the pedals.

    I know this car isn’t a Honda or Mazda. I didn’t mean to give that impression above. I know how to raise the hood on a vehicle and can even identify most of the big parts inside. I do expect though if I baseline the car to where it should be. That the car will be something close to dependable. So far I am impressed with the linear inputs and controls. As in I can push the throttle a little and I get a little response. Or I turn a little bit more into a turn and the car predictability turns in a little bit more. Which is exactly what I was looking for when I started researching another not needed vehicle. A vehicle that allows you to drive it and rewards good driving.

  9. #9
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    Oh. Yes on the cargo cover. But it doesn’t have the net built in. I want to find one with the net once I finish doing the maintenance. I am running down a few parts cars currently.

  10. #10
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    I did not know they made the cargo cover without the net.

  11. #11
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    Hmm. I wrote a long reply that should be post #8. I guess it is in newbie moderator jail. My current post #8 will make more sense then.

    I thought the same about the cargo cover/parcel net. The previous owner set me straight.

  12. #12
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    Damn, your wagon is silver, grey interior? Too bad, I have 2 spare tan cargo covers with the net.
    Set the controls for the heart of the sun

  13. #13
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    Black interior. Post 8 is now the proper post 8 and everything is in order. Thanks for making it that way moderators.

    Here is is a true newbie question. I was putting O-Rings on the hydraulic head of my M35A2 truck this afternoon. Since there is a chance I might not make it run again today. I parked it out of the way to do the work. You just can’t turn off the parking brake and roll a 14,000 pound 10 tired truck. Anyway, I put the 525 next to it so I could have tunes while I was working. Windows down and key in position 1. All good until I noticed the lights were on. Is there a way to play the radio with the engine off and not kill the battery?

    thanks.

  14. #14
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Ha ha noob jail.

    BarrBro: cool but yeah but no but yeah but.

    no, the center wheel is totes independent. You should be able to set it wherever whenever. No interlock. Sure. It mightsa brokes from a previous derptard but not because he could jam it against the HVAC will. The HVAC can’t turn that at all
    He jes farked it up on his own. So yeah fix it and it might help.

    Re: radio. Well. First if headlights are on "auto" and car is in shade then turn them to proper OFF. Second, if your car has DRLs coded and that is why, then you can code DRLs out. And you should.cuz DRLs is moronic and scientifically proven to be retarded and for stupid ahole peepoles.

    But even then if neither of above is a problem... for tune-cranking... Well in ACC, when a modern car is on, it tends to draw an assload of current from all the modules. So its not really good idea to leave the key on for any period.

    However you will find that the classic german car standard is that when car is unlocked, even with no keys in ignition or nothin' , you can hit the radio button and turn it on. So that should work. But IMO: these cars are hard on batteries and so I still don’t advise them being used as long term boomboxes unfortunately.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
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  15. #15
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    So, while driving to learn the car. Someone pulled into traffic in front of me and I had to get on the brakes hard. Harder than I had before. It stopped great and I didn't hit the idiot. However, the next time I went to use the brakes they were mushy and slowly went to the floor. Not good.

    I got home and checked the fluid which was full. I had asked the previous owner about the brakes when I bought it. He had done the pads and added DOT 3 because he was out of 4 at the time. I knew a brake flush was in need soon when I got it. Since the system was topped off and not leaking with nasty dark fluid. I just figured it was time for a master cylinder along with the flush.

    This was without a doubt the hardest to get to master cylinder swap I have ever done. But, it got done on Saturday. ESC had a sale on the Swabian scanner so I jumped on that and thought I was all ready to bleed the brakes. Nope, I didn't do the pre charge pump as part of the bleed sequence and no change in the pedal. I had already put the tires back on and the car back on the ground before I figured it out though. So, Tuesday evening I picked up the front, opened the bleeders with my pressure tank connected to the master, activated the precharge pump, activated the ABS and then did 5 pumps for each front side.

    That got me a much firmer and higher pedal than I had since the crash stop, but it was still a bit mushy engine on or off. I took it for a test drive anyway. (I live at the end of a dirt road connected to a little traveled county road and didn't get near other vehicles, people or houses. Just cows.) The ABS/brake/DSC lights came on at 35 mph or so. Which means I angered the system. I tried the brakes and could make the fronts lock up at just about any speed. I will have a chance to do the rears Sunday or Monday. The PDF about how the DSC/ABS system works shows the precharge pump only works on the front axle, so I am not really sure how I still have air in the rears since that is the only thing I didn't do last weekend. I will try it anyway.

    The scanner says it is a brake pressure sensor that is causing the code. Looks like even after I get it bled I might be going down the ABS module fun road. I'm the one that bought a car with 187K on it.

    Oil consumption is getting stupid. The guy drove the car here 200 miles and it showed up about half way on the little dip stick oil normal block. I don't know if he stopped on the way to add some. I got the low oil level warning 200 miles later and added a quart. 137 miles later I noticed it was getting low and got the warning again. When I had the front end up to do the front bleed Tuesday I did a change putting in Mobile 1 10w-40 and a new Mann filter. I had noticed anytime I got on the throttle or was in the power above 3,000 rpm I would get blue/black smoke out the exhaust. Since the oil change I can romp on it at any rpm and nothing is in the mirror. I don't know what oil the guy had in there. I need to put some miles on it to see if consumption is changed by going with the heavier oil as others on this site have suggested. I do get a faint burnt oil smell after driving, so valve cover gasket is on the list. Front seal looked good when I was underneath as did the oil filter housing seal. The CCV was supposedly replaced and with the engine running and the oil fill cap removed. I get slight suction there so it seems to be working.

    I was really hoping to get the brakes figured out by today. I am taking a Trail Life group camping 150 miles away this weekend and was looking forward to throwing my cargo rack basket on the roof and doing a fully loaded adventure drive in the Touring. Not with less than perfect brakes. The Suburban gets to make this trip which will be fun too.

  16. #16
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    So you HAVE a brake pressure sensor code, yet you're focused on bleeding and master cylinders and precharge pumps and replacing ABS modules and stuff? Dude.

    Take a big bong hit, put down the wrenches, and slowly step away from the credit card. OVER. THINKING. IT.

    If you have a brake pressure sensor that can mess things up completely. The ABS/DSC is very likely what is causing your soft pedal because it is getting confused brake pedal pressure signals. Maybe the sensor 'stuck' after the stomp or the stomp blew it out or something. Ignore anything and everything else until you fix that. The brake pressure sensor on this car is retardo easy to swap (unlike my M3... PITA and theres' 2 of them...)

    Once that's fixed and the code is gone, OK sure then if the problem is still there, move on to the next thing, but not before.

    Oh and the vast majority of the time you dont' need to mess with the precharge bleed thing. I've never done it on my car. If you pull the whole ABS hydraulics (nobody ever does, its only the module side that ever fails...) sure OK maybe. But normally its unnecessary.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

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  17. #17
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    Yes, a code for the pressure sensor after I swapped the master cylinder. Not before. I had no brake codes before. Just a suddenly soft pedal that bled down. That is why I have been chasing the hydraulic issues. I will do a pin out on the pressure sensor wires and see what I get Monday.

  18. #18
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    Time for an update.

    I bled the brakes again using a pressure bleeder at 15 psi. Opened a bleeder valve and had fluid seeping out. Used the scanner to activate the pre-charge pump, activate the abs bleed feature and then 5 full pushes of the brake pedal to the floor. The right rear actually got a few air bubbles in the line by the time I walked around the car after doing the above. I did it again and no bubbles. Repeat for the other 3 corners.

    When I started the master cylinder swap, the fluid was a nasty still liquid dark brown. I have clean new fluid coming out each corner now. However, it still a brown tint to it in the recovery bottle so how much of a flush is an actual flush?

    The result was a great high and firm pedal. Better than the car has ever had. I can now heal/toe downshift. I couldn't before because the pedal either was too far down or the brakes weren't working enough at that pedal position to make it worth while. Again, being new to e39 cars. I kind of thought that was how they were set up for a while.

    However, I still have the trifecta going on. Different codes this time though. So, I bled the fronts again. Best pedal yet but, now I have a precharge pump code. The pump activates when I tell the scanner to turn it on.

    Reading the volumes of threads about the trifecta light issues. Odd codes seem to be a common theme. While driving the car, I can pull up live data from all 4 wheel speed sensors and they match each other and the speed the vehicle is doing according to my gps. The speedometer is about 4 mph faster than the wheel speed sensors. The brake pressure sensor shows 0 bar when I am not touching the pedal and the more I push, the more it goes up. That means it is working to me.

    Just to recap. I got the car with what felt to me like a slightly mushy pedal. No brake related lights on the dash. I do a crash stop and the pedal starts slowly sinking to the floor afterward. I replaced the master cylinder because a sinking pedal without external leaks on any other vehicle is a master cylinder problem. Add in 187K miles and the previous owner used DOT 3 it turns into a preventative maintenance item no matter how the brakes are performing.

    Only after the master cylinder change did I start to get lights on the dash. I personally am still wondering what caused the loss of pedal pressure after my crash stop. Something fluid related stopped functioning correctly. But, after I changed master cylinders and did the first bleed. Nothing was changed. So, I either have more air trapped in the system or something mechanical is still wrong plus whatever is causing the roving codes with the abs.

    I can see one of the abs plungers being stuck or otherwise not in the proper position maybe causing this. I haven't found an exploded view of the pre-charge pump to know if there is a bleed by location there or not. More research.

    Oh, I changed the oil and after 400 miles, no consumption according to the dip stick. Who knows what kind of thin oil like substance he had in there before and how old it was.

    My Touring came with 540 staggered wheels and 8 year old tires. My SAP sounds like a very angry vacuum cleaner and the hood has hail damage. Plus assorted other things found on a 17 year old car. Over the weekend I bought a 2003 525 auto sedan for $400 that had a much better hood, the I think ugly Style 81 wheels and 4 3/18 build date tires on it. Cleaner head light bucket lenses too. Adjusters are broken on them as well though. I already swapped the tires and new rubber sure does increase the quality of the ride. The style 81 wheels are starting to grow on my and the rest of the stuff will get swapped over in the coming weeks. Bad automatic is why the car went so cheap. Engine runs pretty good and I finally got to feel another E39 brake system. Super solid and high pedal.

  19. #19
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Speedo is coded optimistic intentionally by Munich. That is operating as designed.

    Confused about rest of report. You say changed MC and had a great high and firm pedal like everything is fine except for the codes. but then you say "after I changed MC and did bleed nothing was changed"? Really hard to decipher whats going on.

    You say "different codes this time" but then don't errr actually seem to tell us actually what codes they are.?? OK OK "precharge pump code" I see that but you keep saying 'different codes' so is that ALL? That one code? Are you familiar with the difference between plural and singlar in the English language?

    Srlsly: Just because the pump activates doesn't mean all is working properly... if it activates and the system thinks something is wrong then... perhaps that means it is not seeing the pressure that it thinks it should see from the pump. Could you have a bubble in there? Maybe. Could your sensor be bad? Maybe. Similarly just cuz it goes up when you hit the brakes doesn't mean its reading properly. And fundamentally your ABS/DSC module could be bad certainly. Seldom if ever does the hydraulic side go bad, its the module side with the solenoids that goes bad, mainly something about the PCB which indeed doesn't seem like it was the most immaculately mfrd part in the car...
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  20. #20
    Join Date
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    2003 525/5 Touring
    Let me go in order.

    Buy car: Pedal kind of soft and a good bit of travel before the brakes grab with authority. I thought that was how these cars were. All vehicles have a little bit of play at the pedal when everything is adjusted properly and working. This car just had more "take up" travel. Kind of like an old rear drum brake vehicle that needs the shoes adjusted out.

    Crash stop: Car stops great when I slam on the pedal. The next time I push it gently at a light and it slowly goes to the floor. Fluid full and no external leaks. No lights of any kind at this point.

    Install new master cylinder and bleed using pressure bleeder with scanner: Pedal feels exactly the same as before the master change. Now I have the trifecta lights above whatever mph in the 30's that 50 kmh is. Code says 5C DSC pressure sensor test.

    I bleed rear calipers with scanner and pedal seeps slower or not at all on the second pump when driving.

    I bleed front calipers with the scanner to do the pre charge pump and ABS thing. Pedal higher than before but still firmer on second pump.

    I bleed rears again and no change.

    (Only the 5C code to this point.)

    I bleed fronts again with the scanner doing its thing and the pedal is very firm with no increase after a quick pump. During a drive, no 5C code but I do have a code for pre charge pump and two other things. I was driving and didn't write them down. Just noticed it wasn't the 5C being one of the codes.

    That was Saturday. I was off autocrossing the Miata all day Sunday and didn't touch the Touring until this morning. I wrote about what was going on yesterday. Read your reply at the end of the day and hooked up the scanner this morning to drive to work with it giving me data. Just 5C code this morning. Except, at a stop and off the pedal the pressure is 1 or 2 bar. I can leg press up to 170 bar and the pedal feels mushy again after the car sat 2 days. Once moving, the pressure untouched is o bar.

    So, this morning I can see that there is obviously a leak somewhere in the system. Either I got a brand new bad master cylinder and that is still my problem, air is getting in somewhere that fluid isn't leaking out or internally to the brakes fluid is getting routed in some kind of a loop taking pressure away from the calipers.

    While moving the new parts car around I realized my best pedal in the Touring is nothing compared to what the parts sedan has. Almost no take up and rock hard pedal with no give at all. Just like my Miata. I still have something wrong.

    I have thought all along that my brake problems were on the mechanical side and not the electronic side. I still think that. I don't want to throw parts at it just because though. Most threads about brakes come down to the ABS module. That could still be it, but where in the system do the electronics push pressurized fluid back to the master? I can't find such a place in the manuals or exploded views.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    2003 525/5 Touring
    I have been searching and searching for a reasonable place to start trying to figure out my issues. I finally found a clue the other day on a British M5 forum. A very brief mention of a check valve in the master cylinder that allows the recharge pump to apply brake pressure to the front brake system. It seems some master cylinders have been sold without them.

    The way to check for a functioning check valve is to accelerate through 30 mph while dragging the brakes slightly. That is the speed the DSC system does a self check. It is also the speed my trifecta light up. I tried it and the lights stayed off as long as I was dragging the brakes. I could feel the precharge pump cycle on and off as pressure was put into the front brake lines.

    So I got a bad master cylinder. I pulled the one off the parts car to test the theory. Practice does make things better. My first master cylinder change took almost 4 hours. Today I did everything with a floor jack and jack stands and bleeding in a bit under an hour and a half. It was for sure the problem. Rock hard pedal with engine off. Awesome brakes while driving. Traction control cuts power to the engine when I get wheel spin. ABS kicks back at my foot when I try to lock up the tires with heavy braking and the DSC button can turn the system off.

    I swapped out the SAP pump while I had the tires off for bleeding. Much better now that I just get a slight humming instead of the turbo jet pre prop run up sound.

    The light buckets on the 2003 parts car were dated 6/08 and 9/10. Super clear non Xenon without self adjusters. My car had fogged lenses with Xenon and self adjusters that had no plugs on the car side of the harness. Plus no self adjuster sensors on my suspension. The parts car has the sensors on it. The parts car has the high voltage warning sticker on the valence. So I think my car didn’t have Xenon or self adjusters from the factory but someone put them on there. The parts car did but had H7 buckets swapped in.

    All 4 buckets had broken adjusters though. I did the ship in a bottle fix this week and put the newer clean lense lights on the Touring. Much better.

  22. #22
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    That's an issue I'd not heard about Barrman. Interesting. That's really good to know about - and super annoying to think you could buy a brand new defectively manufactured MC and go through all that work and labor. So in the end, you probably had a classic failing MC in the first place, then got screwed with this new DOA MC situation... but you're now all good. Sorry for your troubles but I'll put this MC thing on my radar screen for future reference for sure.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  23. #23
    Join Date
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    Giddings, TX
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    2003 525/5 Touring
    Thanks. That summed it up pretty good. I also learned my lesson about parts suppliers. I am new to this world and didn’t know who to go to or stay away from. Brake hardware past the ABS module? All kinds of suggestions and warnings. Suspension parts? Same thing. It is clear to anyone that searches the forums who to go with and who to stay away from. Not so with master cylinders. I guess they really don’t fail that much. Anyway, don’t buy a Ero master cylinder.

    I learned more about my car as well. I don’t know how many times I read the Bosch 5.7 ABS pdf looking for clues. I thought I understood how the system worked but it wasn’t until I was dragging the brake trying to hold a steady acceleration in 3rd gear through 31 mph and with no change at the pedal. That is when the car just seems to have an anchor thrown out. It stops accelerating, the mpg gauge goes from above 30 to 0 and it just feels wrong. Then the precharge pump turns off and everything is back to normal. I haven’t tried it with everything fixed. I want to leave the lights off for a while first.

  24. #24
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Ero? or Uro. Uro are notorious cheap euro parts knockoffs. Occasionally they have some items that are OK or at least "fine for certain applications" (I think I got some body insulation and weatherstripping for my Merc from them that was perfectly good...) but that's a rarity and as a general rule thats a "stay away" brand for German car guys.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  25. #25
    Join Date
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    Giddings, TX
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    2003 525/5 Touring
    Uro. Now I know. Hopefully someone else will see this and know as well.

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