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Thread: Bought a used differential from 1997 2.8L. Is it Torsen / Clutch based / Open?

  1. #1
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    Bought a used differential from 1997 2.8L. Is it Torsen / Clutch based / Open?

    I was getting tired of the differential noises. So bought another one online. Still haven't got it. Here is the specs from the invoice.

    440-58843 1U-CARRIER ASSEMBLY; Stk#61871; B19R 000492809; ORDERED IN 28K 4.10 RATIO; Requested:1997 Z3 ; BMW Z3 97 2.8L, AT (4.10 ratio, traction control);

    What kind of differential is this? Read that <1999 model, it was not Torsen.

    What kind of fluid does this take? Right now, i am using Amosil 75W140 with my 4.27 (It is a Torsen). Can i use Valvoline /Mobil/ Amsoil 75W140 in this or it has to be 75W90. Since i don't know what type it is, can't decide on the fluid. I guess Valvoline /Mobil/ Amsoil 75W140 should be safe?

    Thought of changing the fluid before swapping it.

  2. #2
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    Bought a used differential from 1997 2.8L. Is it Torsen / Clutch based / Open?

    75W140 helps keep input shaft bearings quite. Adds a little drag, also a bit of protection.
    I use Red Line.


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  3. #3
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    You can replace the clutches before installing it. Talk to Thayer Motorsports (previously BimmerDiffs). Jonathan can help you out.

  4. #4
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    It says only 28K on it. Also not sure if it is clutch or torsen.

    Thought of using Valvoline which is locally available.

  5. #5
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    Since you’re changing fluids, take off the cover and look for a worm gear. And if not, check to see if it’s a 4 clutch.
    Last edited by robrez; 12-22-2018 at 02:33 PM.

  6. #6
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    Sure... will do and update...

    Received it today. Part number is 33101428260.

  7. #7
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    It should be torsen. You should not use oils with friction modifiers in it.
    I run amsoil 75W90 suggested by you guys, but have not seen any evidence how it would be better than normal oil that is for this box from BMW.

    Z3 & E36 RamAir systems, send private message for more information.

  8. #8
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    OP, what were the noises like that you were hearing with the 4.27? I have the same unit and it is quite noisy, but I always thought it was because it was right behind me.

    Stubbornness is a virtue....

  9. #9
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    I opened it today. Can't see the spider gears through the holes. Wonder if someone swapped it with open unit some time back. On my LSD, i can see the spider gears. This one, it is hidden. When i turn it at the input, both sides rotate at same direction also. It shows the part number as i listed above.

    blkwpnz, the noises are as below
    1) When coasting to stop, it clunks. Checked so many times and the looseness is inside the differential. All the 3 axle shafts are tight (2 CV and propeller shaft). Gibuo, CSB is fairly new and in excellent shape. I can reproduce this noise easily. While on jack stands, rotate one wheel like it is coasting. Then turn the input shaft and there is the clunk
    2) Whine/whirr at all speeds. I have the poly mounts (subframe / differential). May be it is making it really bad. At highway speed, it is horrible. Take of the foot from the gas pedal, it stops immediately. Any slight change in throttle, it responds. The sound is there < 20 mpg also.

    Using Amsoil 75W140

    I guess the bearings are worn out. It have 150k on it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by saneesh8 View Post
    I was getting tired of the differential noises. So bought another one online. Still haven't got it. Here is the specs from the invoice.

    440-58843 1U-CARRIER ASSEMBLY; Stk#61871; B19R 000492809; ORDERED IN 28K 4.10 RATIO; Requested:1997 Z3 ; BMW Z3 97 2.8L, AT (4.10 ratio, traction control);

    What kind of differential is this? Read that <1999 model, it was not Torsen.

    What kind of fluid does this take? Right now, i am using Amosil 75W140 with my 4.27 (It is a Torsen). Can i use Valvoline /Mobil/ Amsoil 75W140 in this or it has to be 75W90. Since i don't know what type it is, can't decide on the fluid. I guess Valvoline /Mobil/ Amsoil 75W140 should be safe?

    Thought of changing the fluid before swapping it.

    Hi saneesh8, could i ask where you bought your diff? I think i might need one...

  11. #11
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    I found one in car-part.com and there are plenty. from there, i found this. I bought it from AK (Russel auto group).

    Filled with fresh fluid and ready to go. Used 75W140. Seems it is clutch based (from my limited knowledge). No looseness seems like rebuilt one. Bearings are in good shape (side bearings). No noise in turning also.

    Now need to put it in the car and try.

    I was using 75W140 in the current one. I guess it needs only 75W90 (It is a Torsen) and no need for friction modifiers. i will update after i put it in the car.

    Solimans - What kind of symptoms are you experiencing?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by saneesh8 View Post
    I found one in car-part.com and there are plenty. from there, i found this. I bought it from AK (Russel auto group).

    Filled with fresh fluid and ready to go. Used 75W140. Seems it is clutch based (from my limited knowledge). No looseness seems like rebuilt one. Bearings are in good shape (side bearings). No noise in turning also.

    Now need to put it in the car and try.

    I was using 75W140 in the current one. I guess it needs only 75W90 (It is a Torsen) and no need for friction modifiers. i will update after i put it in the car.

    Solimans - What kind of symptoms are you experiencing?
    Thank you, saneesh. I will have a look at that site as well.

    Mine is original it seems, leaking. I’m planning on doing the rear bushings and thought I’d put in a fresh diff at the same time. Still deciding on replace or rebuild myself on the diff.


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  13. #13
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    If it is leaking only on the sides Or the rear, i think it is pretty doable. Don't need to replace the differential. If it is the front (pinion), it is more work. Only rear means just a new gasket will fix it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by saneesh8 View Post
    I opened it today. Can't see the spider gears through the holes. Wonder if someone swapped it with open unit some time back. On my LSD, i can see the spider gears. This one, it is hidden. When i turn it at the input, both sides rotate at same direction also. It shows the part number as i listed above.
    If it’s not a torsen, it could be an OEM 4-clutch. Look for these markings, which indicate the lock-up.

  15. #15
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    It looks exactly like this.. Thanks..

    Diff.jpg
    Last edited by saneesh8; 01-05-2019 at 12:41 PM.

  16. #16
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    That's what mine has on it as well. I replaced the clutches from BimmerDiffs/Thayer Motorsports. I sent my clutches to Johnathan and he sent me replacements. I thought it was really cool how BMW designed the ramps. As torque is applied to the spider, it spreads a split carrier to apply pressure to the clutches and causing lock-up. However the two ramps are asymmetrical, so there is more lock-up on acceleration than on deceleration. You can see the asymmetrical ramp on the bottom of the left half, which belongs on top of the assembly on the right. The clutches are the stacks of flat pieces that go on each side of the spider assembly. You can't see it very well, but that same "S25 A.Z." is on the carrier in the back right.
    Diff Clutches.jpg
    Last edited by Blacklane; 01-05-2019 at 04:10 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by saneesh8 View Post
    If it is leaking only on the sides Or the rear, i think it is pretty doable. Don't need to replace the differential. If it is the front (pinion), it is more work. Only rear means just a new gasket will fix it.
    True. Still considering replacing the seals. I might also do a higher ratio.


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  18. #18
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    Replaced the differential yesterday. As expected, the top bolts was the toughest one.

    The harsh clunk noise seems to have gone. On sharp turns, i can hear some noise. I guess the clutch's inside. Using Valvoline 75W140. Also the whine noise has greatly reduced. Not completely gone. May be the poly sub frame bushing is making it loud.

    Overall, there are still some noises. But lot better than before.

  19. #19
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    Using fresh fluid? With non-slip additive?


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by saneesh8 View Post
    Replaced the differential yesterday. As expected, the top bolts was the toughest one.

    The harsh clunk noise seems to have gone. On sharp turns, i can hear some noise. I guess the clutch's inside. Using Valvoline 75W140. Also the whine noise has greatly reduced. Not completely gone. May be the poly sub frame bushing is making it loud.

    Overall, there are still some noises. But lot better than before.
    Saneesh, how does it feel compared to the torsen diff? Better “lock”?


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  21. #21
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    Yes.. fresh fluid. It came with no fluid in it..

    Used this -> https://www.pepboys.com/valvoline-75...product/554738 . Almost 2qt

    - - - Updated - - -

    I haven't tried the "lock" or anything special to LSD yet. Just drove like 5 miles in straight road so far. Will do 30 miles tomorrow and update.

  22. #22
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    You do realize that the oil you listed is acceptable for hypoid (i.e. Torsen) limited slips, not clutch-type LSD's? You are not doing yourself any favors driving it without a friction modifier designed for clutch-type LSD's.

    Marty

  23. #23
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    Ohh..i thought it is. I was using Amosil 140 in the old one (Torsen). I guess i have to use the Amosil 140 it self or add FM to this ?

    If not, what is available at stores?

    Hope the few miles i ran on it wont cause any troubles.

  24. #24
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    Amsoil lists a product called Slip Lock that is an additive for clutch limited slips. Interestingly they say it usually isn't needed for their synthetic oil, but said that if the diff is making noise (chatter when turning) you add a 4 ounce pack of this stuff to quiet it down. So just add it to your existing diff oil.

    Marty

  25. #25
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    Thanks Marty.. I will add and report. Need to contact local dealer and buy it

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