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Thread: ms3pro log questions

  1. #1
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    ms3pro log questions

    First a little history..Both my turbo 96 m3 and 88 s50 m3 have been running with a Tec3r for a long time now and working great..I decided to purchase a pnp ms3pro first for the 96 and got that one running in no time. For those of you familiar with the tec3r, my crank wheel was rotated to run off the 15th tooth which is basically the same as a non vanos m50,m20 .... has a tooth angle of 84...I changed setting on the ms3pro to 1050x inject, trigger angle to 84, calibrated wideband..car started right away. I made a few other changes to idle, VE tables and its perfect and starts instantly. Now I haven't driven the car cause I have taken some other stuff apart and waiting for fuels lines to arrive to get it ready for e85 (flex fuel). These are the logs below.

    96 m3 trigger.jpg
    96 m3 comp.jpg
    96 m3 tooth.jpg


    So then I bought another ms3pro for the e30 s50 m3. It has the same injectors and wideband as the 96. But for some reason, sometimes it will start and when it does its missing and if I let run for more than 10 seconds I start seeing black smoke and the smell of fuel. Then it won't start. There is spark and fuel . then I reconnected the tec3r, and it start right away. The only thing different in this car, I had to add 2.2k ohm resistor to the tec3r on the wires going to the crank sensor. So I been doing alot of reading on the megasquirt forum and here and notice of some people adding a 10k ohm resistor some say in series to the + side of the crank sensor and some say to place it from + to - of the crank sensor. But then again this is a pnp unit which i don't think it should need one. Has anyone else have this issue? Here are the logs below.

    88 m3 trigger.jpg
    88 m3 comp.jpg


    96 M3, GT4094R, Arrow Rods, CP Pistons, Elring HG, O-ring, 11 mm ARP studs,MS3pro, EMC Intercooler, Southbend clutch, ZT-2 wideband, Zionsville Radiator, X-brace, H&R springs with bilstien shocks, QTP electronic cutout, Line Locks, stock exhaust



    88 s50 m3 gt35r turbo,JE pistons, Eagle Rods, H&R springs with bilstein shocks,Ron Staygar short shifter, MS3pro, linelocks, southbend clutch

  2. #2
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    and here's the tooth log for the 88 m3.

    88 m3 tooth.jpg


    96 M3, GT4094R, Arrow Rods, CP Pistons, Elring HG, O-ring, 11 mm ARP studs,MS3pro, EMC Intercooler, Southbend clutch, ZT-2 wideband, Zionsville Radiator, X-brace, H&R springs with bilstien shocks, QTP electronic cutout, Line Locks, stock exhaust



    88 s50 m3 gt35r turbo,JE pistons, Eagle Rods, H&R springs with bilstein shocks,Ron Staygar short shifter, MS3pro, linelocks, southbend clutch

  3. #3
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    97 M3, 98 328i, 13 Cruze
    Is the resistor still in place on the 88?

  4. #4
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    no, I placed inside the tec3r


    96 M3, GT4094R, Arrow Rods, CP Pistons, Elring HG, O-ring, 11 mm ARP studs,MS3pro, EMC Intercooler, Southbend clutch, ZT-2 wideband, Zionsville Radiator, X-brace, H&R springs with bilstien shocks, QTP electronic cutout, Line Locks, stock exhaust



    88 s50 m3 gt35r turbo,JE pistons, Eagle Rods, H&R springs with bilstein shocks,Ron Staygar short shifter, MS3pro, linelocks, southbend clutch

  5. #5
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    86 325es
    One thing I do notice is that its polling the cam sensor in different spots relative to the crank trigger on the two composite logs shown, so something is different between the two either hardware or software.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  6. #6
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    Peugeot 206 GTI (1.1)
    Have you got the same spark plugs on both engines? My ECU (OMEX) was cutting out with the wrong (oem E34 M5) plugs in it. I switched to non resistive (or was it resistive??) plugs and that fixed it after around 30 days of deep, meaningless frustration...

    The plugs were generating enough magnetic disruption to make it sort of like you described... Mind you I am no expert

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20comer View Post
    Have you got the same spark plugs on both engines? My ECU (OMEX) was cutting out with the wrong (oem E34 M5) plugs in it. I switched to non resistive (or was it resistive??) plugs and that fixed it after around 30 days of deep, meaningless frustration...

    The plugs were generating enough magnetic disruption to make it sort of like you described... Mind you I am no expert
    Yes, they are the same plugs..One difference that I just remembered, the base tune is calibrated for the e36 coolant sensor. On the e30, I had to use a e30 coolant sensor. I'm going to do a search and see if I can find a tune from an e30 to get the coolant sensor calibration numbers.. This could explain why it starts getting so rich (fuel smell and black smoke) 10 seconds after it starts. My guess that its so rich cause my wideband only shows 11.5 during warmup..


    96 M3, GT4094R, Arrow Rods, CP Pistons, Elring HG, O-ring, 11 mm ARP studs,MS3pro, EMC Intercooler, Southbend clutch, ZT-2 wideband, Zionsville Radiator, X-brace, H&R springs with bilstien shocks, QTP electronic cutout, Line Locks, stock exhaust



    88 s50 m3 gt35r turbo,JE pistons, Eagle Rods, H&R springs with bilstein shocks,Ron Staygar short shifter, MS3pro, linelocks, southbend clutch

  8. #8
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    turbo e36 m3/ stock s50/e30 m3
    Didn't have to search far..There was an e30 in the drop down. I only selected 325i e30 and it automatically filled in the numbers in the table below it.. Do I need to do other changes, besides writing it to controller?



    temp.jpg


    96 M3, GT4094R, Arrow Rods, CP Pistons, Elring HG, O-ring, 11 mm ARP studs,MS3pro, EMC Intercooler, Southbend clutch, ZT-2 wideband, Zionsville Radiator, X-brace, H&R springs with bilstien shocks, QTP electronic cutout, Line Locks, stock exhaust



    88 s50 m3 gt35r turbo,JE pistons, Eagle Rods, H&R springs with bilstein shocks,Ron Staygar short shifter, MS3pro, linelocks, southbend clutch

  9. #9
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    You’ll have to check if the coolant sensor reading in tuner studio actually makes sense after you change the calibration. If the motor is cold it should read the same as the ambient temp.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S472sxe, MS3pro Ultimate, e85, solid rear axle, 4 link, spool, TH400 trans, Protorque converter, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties
    Best = 9.43 @ 149.15 mph, 1.30 60 foot 28 psi boost

  10. #10
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    94 Turbo Miata, E36 soon
    The problem is most definitely fuel related, what you are looking to pay attention to is your Warm Up Enrichment values (WUE). Depending on the level of tunerstudio that you have than it will have a tab for automatic tuning of WUE. The guidance for the coolant sensor is also correct- If your water temp sensor is wrong the car won't run or start. Since it is starting than your values probably look sane (Close to ambient when cold). Since you are getting black smoke (raw fuel) and the fuel smell (raw fuel) than it is way too rich. I believe low 13s are the lowest you want to go during warmup. For starters, go to your WUE table under fuel and remove 15% from the entire table and burn to MS. Note the change in the cars change in behavior and report back. Please post screenshots of your WUE graph, AFR graph, and AFR offset graph.

  11. #11
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    After doing more searching, the e30 coolant sensor is just for the cluster gauge. OBD1 has two coolant sensors. I went ahead and tried my tec3r again, and same thing was happening.. strong smell of fuel and it wouldn't start and would pop.. I removed all spark plugs and they were soaked with fuel.. I only had 3 new ones and I went ahead dried/clean three other ones. I went to start it, and it started right away with the tec3r. I've been very busy at work with alot of ot lately so I haven't had a chance to try the ms3pro again. I did buy another three sparks plugs. Hopefully I'll have time this Sunday and see what happens.


    96 M3, GT4094R, Arrow Rods, CP Pistons, Elring HG, O-ring, 11 mm ARP studs,MS3pro, EMC Intercooler, Southbend clutch, ZT-2 wideband, Zionsville Radiator, X-brace, H&R springs with bilstien shocks, QTP electronic cutout, Line Locks, stock exhaust



    88 s50 m3 gt35r turbo,JE pistons, Eagle Rods, H&R springs with bilstein shocks,Ron Staygar short shifter, MS3pro, linelocks, southbend clutch

  12. #12
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    The logs you posted are related to the RPM signal input, and that looks like it's working OK. Can you post a regular data log (MSL file) and your tune? These will let everyone look over the problem in more detail.
    Matt Cramer
    1997 BMW 328i convertible, 1972 Chevy C10 pickup, 1966 Dodge Dart slant six
    BMW - where "Why doesn't everybody build cars the way they do?" meets "Why can't they build a car the same way everyone else does it?"

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