Considering Buying an E38 750iL

[E28E34]

I've owned an E28 and E34 for just over 20 years. Lots of scares over the 7-series for as long as I can remember.... especially the 750s which doesn't seem fair.

I am considering buying a `98 750iL with 113K mi. to replace my E34 as a daily. Wanted a 750iL since 1989 - perhaps it's time. I'm concerned that the ATF has never been changed. My E34 auto 525i had the ATF and filter changed 2x before I purchased at 94K mi. and I've had it changed every 30K mi., with the original box now at 176K.

How concerned should I be that this 750 has never had it changed? If I did purchase it, is the mileage low enough to be safe to change the ATF and filter?

Any other tips and things to look for? Thanks.

[rslifkin]

I'd plan to change the ATF and filter when you get it unless you can confirm it was recently done. The whole thing about fluid changes on a high mileage trans causing failure is a complete myth. If the fluid is really shot, it might feel different after the change. And if it seems like it's failing after a fluid change, it was already failing and just hadn't been noticed yet.

[Timm]

It's quite a big jump from the E28 to the E38 - you really should have got an E32 to start with! The E38 is very different in some respects, but maintains some lineage from the 5-Series - it's just hugely more complicated in respect to suspension and electronics just to name two.

Here's the usual problems:

https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/BMW_E3...n_Problems.htm

....and the buyers guide (for the UK, but ROW is much the same):

https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/bmw_e38_buying_guide.htm

[E28E34]

I'd plan to change the ATF and filter when you get it unless you can confirm it was recently done. The whole thing about fluid changes on a high mileage trans causing failure is a complete myth. If the fluid is really shot, it might feel different after the change. And if it seems like it's failing after a fluid change, it was already failing and just hadn't been noticed yet.

Interesting. Perhaps this applies more to cars north of 150K mi. Read that the wearing clutch particles with excess ATF age, help the Transmission's friction. After changing the ATF, the components that were accustomed to the grit/friction start slipping, which can require a rebuild or replacement.

I have a feeling the current owner, who purchased it 2 yrs. ago, may have feared changing it due to it never being changed - or just the complication of changing it at home.

According to Mobile Tradition, the Auto in my E34 costs $1,800 more for a re-manufactured unit vs. a re-manufactured unit for a E38 750iL - inspiring. I've read that the 750's unit is more robust than the 740's. All good to hear.

TimmIt's quite a big jump from the E28 to the E38 - you really should have got an E32 to start with! The E38 is very different in some respects, but maintains some lineage from the 5-Series - it's just hugely more complicated in respect to suspension and electronics just to name two.


Here's the usual problems:


https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/BMW_E3...n_Problems.htm


....and the buyers guide (for the UK, but ROW is much the same):


https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/bmw_e38_buying_guide.htm

Timm: Drove the `84 533i from `97-`08. Driving the `93 525i since `08. The E34 is closer to the E38 than the E28.

Thanks for the links.

[TheAngryBear]

I would change the ATF. I plan on doing it as well.
The argument that the wear particles and burned ATF make an effective lubricant is just a fancy way of saying the problem hasn’t been detected yet. Would you want to trust a timing chain that depends on gunked oil and wear particles to maintain operations? Yes it can work for a bit but really?

And I just bought mine in April. Been great as a daily. Also been fighting a secondary air system but still fun.


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[jpilk99]

I've owned an E28 and E34 for just over 20 years. Lots of scares over the 7-series for as long as I can remember.... especially the 750s which doesn't seem fair.

I am considering buying a `98 750iL with 113K mi. to replace my E34 as a daily. Wanted a 750iL since 1989 - perhaps it's time. I'm concerned that the ATF has never been changed. My E34 auto 525i had the ATF and filter changed 2x before I purchased at 94K mi. and I've had it changed every 30K mi., with the original box now at 176K. How concerned should I be that this 750 has never had it changed? If I did purchase it, is the mileage low enough to be safe to change the ATF and filter?

Any other tips and things to look for? Thanks.

My only comment, re the "Any other tips and things to look for?" are the classic Service Updates that have been done, or not. When I had my '00 750iL, when she was right, she was great. When she wanted maintenance, she broke my heart (actually my wallet). Seems most things on the V12 are about 30% more expensive and challenging; i.e. alternator, ignition wires, etc. Exotic and the extra horses are intriguing but come with a cost. Make sure you get some "V12" emblems. I put mine just above the side turn indicators.

Good luck!

[E28E34]

I would change the ATF. I plan on doing it as well.
The argument that the wear particles and burned ATF make an effective lubricant is just a fancy way of saying the problem hasn’t been detected yet. Would you want to trust a timing chain that depends on gunked oil and wear particles to maintain operations? Yes it can work for a bit but really?

And I just bought mine in April. Been great as a daily. Also been fighting a secondary air system but still fun.


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

Good point. I know this was the time when the Lifetime Fill ATF was in full-effect - started with the the introduction of V-8s in the US in 1993 (E32 740i/iL). Didn't think it applied to the later M73 V-12s too, but apparently it did.

Nice. Congrats. How many miles on your 750? Photos?

You should change your ATF and let us know how it works out.

[E28E34]

My only comment, re the "Any other tips and things to look for?" are the classic Service Updates that have been done, or not. When I had my '00 750iL, when she was right, she was great. When she wanted maintenance, she broke my heart (actually my wallet). Seems most things on the V12 are about 30% more expensive and challenging; i.e. alternator, ignition wires, etc. Exotic and the extra horses are intriguing but come with a cost. Make sure you get some "V12" emblems. I put mine just above the side turn indicators.

Good luck!

Haven't made the purchase yet. Haven't even seen the car yet - only photos and correspondence with the owner. It's a time-piece, like my old 533i and current 525i. If I purchase I plan to keep it a time capsule, so no extra emblems - maybe a V12 plate. Spent a fortune on my E28 and E34. After a while, they are all very costly. Granted it makes sense it'll be a little more for a 12, but any BMW after many years will be a commitment, costly and a love affair, that's hard to get rid of.... partly why I've hung onto mine for so long. Promised myself this time, after 21 yrs. of owning just the 533i and 525i, it was time to FINALLY get one of the models I've wanted for the longest time. This may not be the car, or it may be.... we shall see.

[TheAngryBear]

Good point. I know this was the time when the Lifetime Fill ATF was in full-effect - started with the the introduction of V-8s in the US in 1993 (E32 740i/iL). Didn't think it applied to the later M73 V-12s too, but apparently it did.

Nice. Congrats. How many miles on your 750? Photos?

You should change your ATF and let us know how it works out.

Yeah, the lifetime atf was a waste. Ruined some great transmissions.

Got mine with 126k and just turned 130k (short commute but does give a good excuse for miniroadtrips “honey, do you want to ruin the engine? We need to go there to get the condensation out”). I have the headliner issue (sag) and debating on correction: redo with aftermarket (save money but lower quality) or new (expensive but highest quality).


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[E28E34]

Yeah, the lifetime atf was a waste. Ruined some great transmissions.

Got mine with 126k and just turned 130k (short commute but does give a good excuse for miniroadtrips “honey, do you want to ruin the engine? We need to go there to get the condensation out”). I have the headliner issue (sag) and debating on correction: redo with aftermarket (save money but lower quality) or new (expensive but highest quality).


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

My headliner has been sagging in one spot for 10 yrs. It's only expanded maybe 5". I was told by an upholstery shop to not have the windows open while moving. The turbulence will make it ripple/flap and it will pull down more. So for about 8 yrs. I never have the windows down or sunroof open - if I did, I'm sure thumbtacks or a $1,000 replacement with labor would be needed. So try to keep the car buttoned up on the move to buy you more time.

So you drive it hard it sounds like? I mostly baby my Auto in the E34 for the past 5 years - for fear of the Auto being weakened, as it's an original unit. Got a ton more life out of this auto vs. the 533i (which needed 2 replacements before 150K).

I wonder what would be the best/safest ATF to put in the 750. Stick with the BMW fluid and change every 30K. Or go with Redline D4? I had issues converting to Redline D4 at around 145K. (Had 3 ATF changes prior, with non-synth ATF). Went into limp-home mode on/off for about a month. Then it was gone. Been good ever since, now at 175K., even after another ATF change 1K ago.

[TheAngryBear]

Not really hard, more relaxed. Generally I don’t need to get above 2k rpm with only the occasional 3k blip. The v12 is just smooth power with constant torque. When I do get on it, it moves!

My thoughts now (after my 540 changes) is to stay with OE/M (so bmw or Zf or atf1) for spill and fills (likely my process) or go for the whole fluid change if switching (say to redline). I have no tea basis other than mixing colors gives me the willies as I think more on it.

My headliner is basically from the motion sensor back. I can do the tacks now but as the primary passengers are my 5 & 6 year olds...

Here is my intro thread. And that reminds me, with the 750 you will need inpa/dis with an ads reader for troubleshooting.
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/fo...topics/1268410


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[E28E34]

Not really hard, more relaxed. Generally I don’t need to get above 2k rpm with only the occasional 3k blip. The v12 is just smooth power with constant torque. When I do get on it, it moves!

My thoughts now (after my 540 changes) is to stay with OE/M (so bmw or Zf or atf1) for spill and fills (likely my process) or go for the whole fluid change if switching (say to redline). I have no tea basis other than mixing colors gives me the willies as I think more on it.

My headliner is basically from the motion sensor back. I can do the tacks now but as the primary passengers are my 5 & 6 year olds...

Sounds nice. Your children are riding in high style, safety and powered by a V-12 - not many kids are that lucky!

So when new, all E38s (including the 750s) were filled with Synthetic ATF I presume. Makes sense to stick to the closest that was installed at the factory as only around 2/3 of the ATF comes out by dropping the pan/s. Don't see any BMW ATF avail in 1 liter bottles. I see ZF, Pentosin and Febi - I wonder which is the closest to factory ATF. ZF is the costliest - so maybe that's the closest?

[TheAngryBear]

Sounds nice. Your children are riding in high style, safety and powered by a V-12 - not many kids are that lucky!

So when new, all E38s (including the 750s) were filled with Synthetic ATF I presume. Makes sense to stick to the closest that was installed at the factory as only around 2/3 of the ATF comes out by dropping the pan/s. Don't see any BMW ATF avail in 1 liter bottles. I see ZF, Pentosin and Febi - I wonder which is the closest to factory ATF. ZF is the costliest - so maybe that's the closest?

ZF is the OEM with Pentosin supposedly the American label.
ECS has OE BMW transfluid and there is always the dealer.
BMW is $18-19 per L
ZF is $17 per L
Pentosin is $16 per L

So a little bit of difference over 7L but not bank breaking. And with CCA membership, I should be able to get BMW for the Pentosin cost.

Some have used the valvoline at $5 per quart with no ill effects. Don’t know if I am that brave without a full fluid exchange.


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[E28E34]

ZF is the OEM with Pentosin supposedly the American label.
ECS has OE BMW transfluid and there is always the dealer.
BMW is $18-19 per L
ZF is $17 per L
Pentosin is $16 per L

So a little bit of difference over 7L but not bank breaking. And with CCA membership, I should be able to get BMW for the Pentosin cost.

Some have used the valvoline at $5 per quart with no ill effects. Don’t know if I am that brave without a full fluid exchange.


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

Good to know thanks. I am also a CCA member - 21 years now. God, I'm that old. Ugh.

[S61Dan]

I recently purchased a 99 750 with a folder's worth of maintenance records from the po. Car was in good shape but needed intake manifold gaskets and a plethora of other things. I am finishing up the gaskets as we speak and let me say, the chassis isn't bad to work with at all but the engine is a different story. Replacement v12 parts are almost always expensive, rare or NLA so be prepared to be crafty in sourcing parts or make friends with a guy parting one. I do ALL my own maintenance so I am just paying for parts, I would be nervous about what a shop would charge for intake gaskets on a 750..... Keep that in mind

[masbury]

An additional $.02...

I own (a lot) of BMW's, all but one have 2 pedals. When first getting into these cars, I verified with Valvoline that their MaxLife (Red) full synthetic met all BMW (and Mercedes) standards. I have used that fluid in all the "newer" cars that don't require Dexron. The latest was my '98 750iL I rescued with 120k miles on it. The transmission had never been serviced, so I immediately did that very thing. Replaced the filter and gasket and used the MaxLife. The stuff that drained out was disgusting - not burnt, just the color of used motor oil. As a precaution, I then changed it twice more within 500 miles. The transmission works very well and I have had no problems with any of the cars by using the MaxLife, including the SL500.

The (almost) best part is, it's less than $18.00 per gallon at Walmart... Get 3 gallons though you won't use it all.

Enjoy your E38 should you buy one. They are amazing cars - not to mention super sexy looking. By the way, S61Dan is right on regarding the intakes on a M70 V12. What a PITA! I have done two of them and absolutely hate the job, but I don't have a trust fund, so I get to work on all my cars myself. Part of the joy of ownership, I guess.

Good luck!

[S61Dan]

^ Same fluid I used in my 750

[RIboater2]

I've used a mix of Valvoline and Castrol twice now. Currently at 170k no issues. Also Febi filters.
The intake gaskets are $600 just for the parts without labor!

[S61Dan]

I've used a mix of Valvoline and Castrol twice now. Currently at 170k no issues. Also Febi filters.
The intake gaskets are $600 just for the parts without labor!

I just did the intakes using the max lumens rubber gaskets for about $115. Will see if they work
20181215_203020 by Dan Tanedo, on Flickr

[E28E34]

I recently purchased a 99 750 with a folder's worth of maintenance records from the po. Car was in good shape but needed intake manifold gaskets and a plethora of other things. I am finishing up the gaskets as we speak and let me say, the chassis isn't bad to work with at all but the engine is a different story. Replacement v12 parts are almost always expensive, rare or NLA so be prepared to be crafty in sourcing parts or make friends with a guy parting one. I do ALL my own maintenance so I am just paying for parts, I would be nervous about what a shop would charge for intake gaskets on a 750..... Keep that in mind

What mileage, and how often do the Intake Manifold Gaskets need to be replaced? What are the symptoms? How many hours would it take to replace?


Records only go back 2 yrs. Dealer does not save them past 7 yrs. Sad, as both my E28 and E34 had all records since new.

An additional $.02...

I own (a lot) of BMW's, all but one have 2 pedals. When first getting into these cars, I verified with Valvoline that their MaxLife (Red) full synthetic met all BMW (and Mercedes) standards. I have used that fluid in all the "newer" cars that don't require Dexron. The latest was my '98 750iL I rescued with 120k miles on it. The transmission had never been serviced, so I immediately did that very thing. Replaced the filter and gasket and used the MaxLife. The stuff that drained out was disgusting - not burnt, just the color of used motor oil. As a precaution, I then changed it twice more within 500 miles. The transmission works very well and I have had no problems with any of the cars by using the MaxLife, including the SL500.

The (almost) best part is, it's less than $18.00 per gallon at Walmart... Get 3 gallons though you won't use it all.

Enjoy your E38 should you buy one. They are amazing cars - not to mention super sexy looking. By the way, S61Dan is right on regarding the intakes on a M70 V12. What a PITA! I have done two of them and absolutely hate the job, but I don't have a trust fund, so I get to work on all my cars myself. Part of the joy of ownership, I guess.

Good luck!

Good to know you had success. Did you just drain the fluid from the drain-plug the 2nd and 3rd time, without dropping the entire pan and changing filter again? My M50 auto is a pain, and has 2 pans that must be dropped to drain the fluid. I'd imagine the 750 has just 1 pan.

Thank you. I hope this car is worth buying. Yes, I showed a friend who's not into cars 3 E38 brochures I've had since new, and he said, "Wow. That's a really good looking car.... it's sexy." No trust fund either, but mechanical skills, time and tools are limited.

Thanks for the other comments guys. A friend says my E34 is so well-sorted, why replace it? Mine still has issues, as nice looking as it is, and ones that would require lots of money to get right: paint, body work, headliner, rear shocks, hardware, steering box, heater-core.... nothing critical, but all can add up to a very high figure. Spent well over $10K on maintenance/parts. And that will only continue no matter what car it is.

[S61Dan]

[QUOTE=E28E34;30167814]What mileage, and how often do the Intake Manifold Gaskets need to be replaced? What are the symptoms? How many hours would it take to replace?.[/QUOTE

One time change usually. Cold start misfires, misfire codes, failed smoke test. etc etc. I am not sure how long it takes to do as I have been working on it here and there for about a month. It's a lot of tedious work and the "while I am there I might as well do X,Y, and Z" starts to add up time, money wise.

[masbury]

Yes - the second and third changes were done via drain/fill plugs. Did not drop the pan. Since I'm not willing to risk a flush (have heard horror stories on occasion), I just did the multi-change method.

Oh, and both my M70's that required intake manifold re-seals (did not have to replace them completely), was because some dumb-ass broke off a couple of studs on one of the intakes (there's 4) on each engine, since I didn't feel comfortable with the "potential" of an intake leak, I went ahead and bought the one intake manifold with the broken stud(s) for each engine, then resealed them and I also did the other "while your there" mission creep business.

Buy it and enjoy it, but be willing to maintain it the absolutely best you can, otherwise it will turn around and bite you in the A**!

By the way - S61DAN - I love your signature!
My only experience with choppers were Huey's, which was all I needed - forever...

[S61Dan]

By the way - S61DAN - I love your signature!
My only experience with choppers were Huey's, which was all I needed - forever...

Thanks! Those photos are from a place I worked for a few years back. I work for Agusta Helicopters now.

[E28E34]

Yes - the second and third changes were done via drain/fill plugs. Did not drop the pan. Since I'm not willing to risk a flush (have heard horror stories on occasion), I just did the multi-change method.

Oh, and both my M70's that required intake manifold re-seals (did not have to replace them completely), was because some dumb-ass broke off a couple of studs on one of the intakes (there's 4) on each engine, since I didn't feel comfortable with the "potential" of an intake leak, I went ahead and bought the one intake manifold with the broken stud(s) for each engine, then resealed them and I also did the other "while your there" mission creep business.

Buy it and enjoy it, but be willing to maintain it the absolutely best you can, otherwise it will turn around and bite you in the A**!

By the way - S61DAN - I love your signature!
My only experience with choppers were Huey's, which was all I needed - forever...

If this car exceeds the condition of my E34, (paint, body, interior), I may buy it.

S61DAN - Ditto for your signature.

Decent 750iL's are quite scarce. Anyone know how many E38 750's were imported to the US?

[TheAngryBear]

Decent 750iL's are quite scarce. Anyone know how many E38 750's were imported to the US?

Oh, it has been broken down to colors produced by model. A good site to explore options etc
http://www.e38registry.org/e38-production-numbers/


2001 750iL DD74441
Stock

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1