Does a 1977 e24 alpina b2 exist?

[ngrosso]

Hi everyone,

Recently my father and I purchased a 1977 BMW Alpina b2 630cs. We have found nothing but one article saying a 1977 e24 B2 exists, which I will attach a link for below. If anyone has any information on a 1977 e24 B2 existing it would be greatly appreciated. The car was supposedly imported from Germany in 1997 with a start to a full restoration around 2000. The project was never finished as you can see in the pictures. We can take more pictures of the car if anyone would like to see more. Oh yeah.... and the engine has 3 Webber carbs, interesting wrench in our searches. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Pictures:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...BkeThBOXMyTnFn

Article:
Classic and Vintage BMW

[shogun]

Based on a German website https://bmwig.carmen-schmid.com/alpina-e24/
Alpina Baureihe E24 Hersteller: Alpina Verkaufsbezeichnung: 6er

Produktionszeitraum: B2 ( 630cs ) 1977 – 1982 ( Stückzahl:nicht bekannt/production numbers unknown) ; B8 ( 633csi ) 1977 – 1980 ( Stückzahl:6 ) ; B7 ( 630cs ) 1978 – 1982 ( Stückzahl:153 ) ; B9 ( 635csi ) 07/82 – 11/82 ( Stückzahl:2 ) ; B9 ( 635csi ) 08/82 – 12/85 ( Stückzahl:73 ) ; B7S ( 635csi ) 05/82 – 09/82 ( Stückzahl:30 ) ; B7 ( 635csi ) 04/84 – 08/87 ( Stückzahl:110 ) ; B7 ( 635csi ) 10/86 – 06/88 ( Stückzahl:20 ) .
Karosserieversionen: Coupé
Motoren/engines : B2 – 170 kw ; B8 – 176 kw ; B7 – 221 kw ; B9 – 180 kw ; B9 – 180 kw ; B7S – 243 kw ; B7 – 243 kw ; B7 – 235 kw .

1977 kam das erste E24-Coupé von Alpina heraus, B2 genannt, dessen Basis der BMW 630 CS darstellte. Alpina benannte seinerzeit die Fahrzeuge nach dem entsprechend eingebauten Motor. In diesem Fall war es der bereits im Vorgänger-Coupé E9 verbaute B2-Motor. Ein Jahr später, also im Jahr 1978 wurde das Alpina B7 Turbo Coupé präsentiert, dessen Leistung 300 PS betrug. Ein damals fast unvorstellbarer Wert, ebenso wie die Höchstgeschwindigkeit von 260 km/h. Dies wurde später nur noch durch das B7 S Turbo Coupé mit einer Leistung von bis zu 330 PS getoppt. 1983 wurde Alpina durch das Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt als eigener Fahrzeughersteller anerkannt.
http://www.sharknose.de/alpina.htm

translated:
In 1977, the first E24 coupe from Alpina came into the market, called B2, based on the BMW 630 CS. Alpina called at that time the vehicles by the corresponding built-in engine. In this case, it was the B2 engine already installed in the predecessor E9 coupe. One year later, in 1978, the Alpina B7 Turbo Coupé was presented, with an output of 300 hp. An almost unimaginable value at that time, as well as the top speed of 260 km / h. This was later topped only by the B7 S Turbo Coupe with an output of up to 330 hp. In 1983, Alpina was recognized by the Federal Motor Transport Authority as its own vehicle manufacturer.
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So the B2 was in the market before Alpina was officially recognized as vehicle manufacturer.

Weber service manual for download,
DCOE series https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80...4yYjJ2Smc/edit
Weber DCOE parts diagram https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80...U1ZndWWGc/edit

[TowJamma]

Wow, Nice find! That's going to be special when your finished. Heck, it's stunning now!

[Nullified]

It's a beautiful car in the pictures but I do see a lot of rust. Can you describe what has been done in the restauration?

[Shipper]

Lovely looking car. more pics please.

[ngrosso]

It's a beautiful car in the pictures but I do see a lot of rust. Can you describe what has been done in the restauration?

The Car was imported from Germany in 1997, around 1998 the owner ordered many new parts with plans of a full restoration but never got around to it. In 2017 the man moved to a nursing home and the nursing home acquired the car. My father and I found it on eBay while looking for a 2017 B6 emblem set.

[Nullified]

Okay, sorry for misreading.

[ngrosso]

Based on a German website https://bmwig.carmen-schmid.com/alpina-e24/
Alpina Baureihe E24 Hersteller: Alpina Verkaufsbezeichnung: 6er

Produktionszeitraum: B2 ( 630cs ) 1977 – 1982 ( Stückzahl:nicht bekannt/production numbers unknown) ; B8 ( 633csi ) 1977 – 1980 ( Stückzahl:6 ) ; B7 ( 630cs ) 1978 – 1982 ( Stückzahl:153 ) ; B9 ( 635csi ) 07/82 – 11/82 ( Stückzahl:2 ) ; B9 ( 635csi ) 08/82 – 12/85 ( Stückzahl:73 ) ; B7S ( 635csi ) 05/82 – 09/82 ( Stückzahl:30 ) ; B7 ( 635csi ) 04/84 – 08/87 ( Stückzahl:110 ) ; B7 ( 635csi ) 10/86 – 06/88 ( Stückzahl:20 ) .
Karosserieversionen: Coupé
Motoren/engines : B2 – 170 kw ; B8 – 176 kw ; B7 – 221 kw ; B9 – 180 kw ; B9 – 180 kw ; B7S – 243 kw ; B7 – 243 kw ; B7 – 235 kw .

1977 kam das erste E24-Coupé von Alpina heraus, B2 genannt, dessen Basis der BMW 630 CS darstellte. Alpina benannte seinerzeit die Fahrzeuge nach dem entsprechend eingebauten Motor. In diesem Fall war es der bereits im Vorgänger-Coupé E9 verbaute B2-Motor. Ein Jahr später, also im Jahr 1978 wurde das Alpina B7 Turbo Coupé präsentiert, dessen Leistung 300 PS betrug. Ein damals fast unvorstellbarer Wert, ebenso wie die Höchstgeschwindigkeit von 260 km/h. Dies wurde später nur noch durch das B7 S Turbo Coupé mit einer Leistung von bis zu 330 PS getoppt. 1983 wurde Alpina durch das Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt als eigener Fahrzeughersteller anerkannt.
http://www.sharknose.de/alpina.htm

translated:
In 1977, the first E24 coupe from Alpina came into the market, called B2, based on the BMW 630 CS. Alpina called at that time the vehicles by the corresponding built-in engine. In this case, it was the B2 engine already installed in the predecessor E9 coupe. One year later, in 1978, the Alpina B7 Turbo Coupé was presented, with an output of 300 hp. An almost unimaginable value at that time, as well as the top speed of 260 km / h. This was later topped only by the B7 S Turbo Coupe with an output of up to 330 hp. In 1983, Alpina was recognized by the Federal Motor Transport Authority as its own vehicle manufacturer.
---------------------
So the B2 was in the market before Alpina was officially recognized as vehicle manufacturer.

Weber service manual for download,
DCOE series https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80...4yYjJ2Smc/edit
Weber DCOE parts diagram https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B80...U1ZndWWGc/edit

Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated. Would you happen to know any key authentication tips for a e24 b2? We have contacted Alpina but they are very skeptical about about authenticating a 1977, they offer their authentication services from 1978 and newer cars.

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[Shipper]

We need more pics.

I've gone through the pics on the photo website and make the following comments;

1. Gauge cluster, no Alpina. The E3 Alpinas did have 'Alpina' on the gauge cluster so this would have been expected.
2. Alpina may have pushed it out as non standard re placing decals on the gauge cluster as they just built a few B2's to test the waters.
3. Generally, car matches spec for a B2. A tribute or fake car would more than likely have gone a 5 speed and no carbies.
4. Front spoiler looks correct but new?
5. Rear wing worries me but could have been aftermarket. No reason why someone would not further dress up a B2.
6. Wheels, interior, seats, door cards, all look period correct.


Generally, at first glance she looks the real deal. We would need to see what B2 engine mods were made then disassemble the engine and measure. Luckily, it is already disassembled. That and engine and chassis numbers.

Keep posting, keep photos coming and we'll all randomly search. Something will come up. All that said, she is gorgeous. Good luck with the refurb!

28576687_2036847633266676_4545622101698791821_n.jpg

[ngrosso]

We need more pics.

I've gone through the pics on the photo website and make the following comments;

1. Gauge cluster, no Alpina. The E3 Alpinas did have 'Alpina' on the gauge cluster so this would have been expected.
2. Alpina may have pushed it out as non standard re placing decals on the gauge cluster as they just built a few B2's to test the waters.
3. Generally, car matches spec for a B2. A tribute or fake car would more than likely have gone a 5 speed and no carbies.
4. Front spoiler looks correct but new?
5. Rear wing worries me but could have been aftermarket. No reason why someone would not further dress up a B2.
6. Wheels, interior, seats, door cards, all look period correct.


Generally, at first glance she looks the real deal. We would need to see what B2 engine mods were made then disassemble the engine and measure. Luckily, it is already disassembled. That and engine and chassis numbers.

Keep posting, keep photos coming and we'll all randomly search. Something will come up. All that said, she is gorgeous. Good luck with the refurb!

28576687_2036847633266676_4545622101698791821_n.jpg

I definitely intend on getting you more pictures soon. At the moment the motor is completely disassembled and spread between the trunk and rear seats of the car. Its a glorious and terrifying sight at the same time. I was planning on unloading the car this weekend because that alone is a project and I have a busy week. Once I unload the car, between now and Saturday you can count on pictures from me. Thank you so much for your help my father and I appreciate it. We have a genius of a mechanic and really want to do the car right, but starting with authentication. I have posted on the Alpina Register as well and someone gave me good information. I will attach his quote below. Couple things about what you mentioned,
4. The front spoiler is original
5. we believe the rear spoiler is aftermarket, the car had a couple after market additions at one point, we believe that to be one of them

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not many around today thats for sure, these were made on the basis that the buyer purchased the car and took it to Alpina to add their kit, that way they got a B2. And it wasn't always based on a brand new car.

Alpina can't verify these cars as its before their time of keeping production info, 79/80 etc cars and kits sold were sparsely being recorded/detailed via a form of record keeping, before that its anybody's guess.

I gave a lot of info to the original owner of this car when I was approached mid last year to help ID it. if you pm me I'll dig that out for you.

But yes by what we can tell it has a genuine Alpina kit fitted and tying the year to the build shows it is a proper B2.

Your best port of call though is via the German Alpina Gemeinshaft forums as members there will be able to assist in more detail.
_________________
Former BMW CC 7 register chairman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Big thank you to "AG" from theALPINAregister.com forums for the information in-between the dotted lines

[Shipper]

I agree with your comments on the rear wing. The strut brace would have also been aftermarket.

While the engine is apart, measure bore, stroke, CC the engine, measure lift and duration on the cam. Measure the valve sizes. Alpina's core engine work was valve and cam related. Non standard cam and valve dimensions when compared to a stock M30B30 will add weight to the Alpina claim. And once the engine is together you cannot do this easily or cheaply. So do it now. Get a shop to do it and if larger, get the dimensions on a sheet of paper. Providence is key to authenticity. Do this later and it can cost big dollars.

Also check the chokes and jets on the carbies as these would have been chosen to get the 170kw. That's 240hp so nothing to sneeze at and balancing the carbies will be another tell as to authenticity. So check those chokes and jets.

Love that colour and the stance. I would also expect an early Alpina to be modded a little. So far it all looks original. Time will tell but I've seen claims of being a JPS car or Alpina that look wrong from every angle. So far yours looks right from all those same angles.

[ngrosso]

I agree with your comments on the rear wing. The strut brace would have also been aftermarket.

While the engine is apart, measure bore, stroke, CC the engine, measure lift and duration on the cam. Measure the valve sizes. Alpina's core engine work was valve and cam related. Non standard cam and valve dimensions when compared to a stock M30B30 will add weight to the Alpina claim. And once the engine is together you cannot do this easily or cheaply. So do it now. Get a shop to do it and if larger, get the dimensions on a sheet of paper. Providence is key to authenticity. Do this later and it can cost big dollars.

Also check the chokes and jets on the carbies as these would have been chosen to get the 170kw. That's 240hp so nothing to sneeze at and balancing the carbies will be another tell as to authenticity. So check those chokes and jets.

Love that colour and the stance. I would also expect an early Alpina to be modded a little. So far it all looks original. Time will tell but I've seen claims of being a JPS car or Alpina that look wrong from every angle. So far yours looks right from all those same angles.

Thank you for your interest. The main question that has been stumping us has been why does the car have 3 webber carbs.... Would a change from Webber's from solex be a possible addition to the Alpina package on the B2? It would make much more sense that the B2 was just an aesthetic package, but we truly can't explain why the car has 3 Webber's, obviously it was either changed along the way from an owner, or it was actually included in the Alpina kit. Any thoughts?

[Shipper]

I've seen a lot of triple carbie M30 engines. From E9 race engines to M88 race engines. I think that this would be a sensible Alpina upgrade. So either someone upgraded the Solex's to Webers as Webers were seen as the performance go to Carbie or Alpina changed them over. More than likely someone simply upgraded them .They may have done so to fit bigger chokes and jets. For example, if you buy a Weber 45DCOE on line, it will come with 37mm chokes and jetted for these chokes. My 45DCOE's run 41mm chokes and jets to suite. If the Solex's wer say the equivalent of a 40DCOE (or smaller), then someone may have selected a larger carbie to as to fit larger chokes and associated jets.

Does it have an Alpina induction system? What manifolds is it running? Wait, from the pictures, that is a unique looking manifold. Normally, they come in 3 sets of two inlets. What size webers is it running? Is the head ported? The car is old. There may have been a few upgrades or replacements years ago that ignored the importance of Alpina and originality.

[ngrosso]

I've seen a lot of triple carbie M30 engines. From E9 race engines to M88 race engines. I think that this would be a sensible Alpina upgrade. So either someone upgraded the Solex's to Webers as Webers were seen as the performance go to Carbie or Alpina changed them over. More than likely someone simply upgraded them .They may have done so to fit bigger chokes and jets. For example, if you buy a Weber 45DCOE on line, it will come with 37mm chokes and jetted for these chokes. My 45DCOE's run 41mm chokes and jets to suite. If the Solex's wer say the equivalent of a 40DCOE (or smaller), then someone may have selected a larger carbie to as to fit larger chokes and associated jets.

Does it have an Alpina induction system? What manifolds is it running? Wait, from the pictures, that is a unique looking manifold. Normally, they come in 3 sets of two inlets. What size webers is it running? Is the head ported? The car is old. There may have been a few upgrades or replacements years ago that ignored the importance of Alpina and originality.

Finally got around to pictures. Since we have last spoken we have identified the car as authentic. We are excited and are now trying to decided what level of restoration we should persue, my father and I have different ideas on what will hold the most value for the car, we are willing to do whatever will give the car the most value. I’m thinking new paint job because the original paint is pretty rough. My father is thinking a heavy buff job. Happy holidays and thank you for your help
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...l1D4pU5rkmRIlu

Regards-
Nick

[jonmont]

The color is mesmerizing. And everything else about the car. A couple of additional observations (based on my 9/80 635 that was accessorized when new by the BMW dealer: The front spoiler is definitely Alpina (type 617, and still available if you want to ditch the aftermarket fog/driving lights). As the car seems to be original paint, there should be holes in the trunk lid for proper Alpina the rear spoiler--if one was ever installed. Alpina experts may comment on this: the spoiler installed on the successor model B7s may not have been made yet in 1977--that's my hunch. I also notice that on this car the rear sway bar appears to be factory BMW. On B7s and onward, the rear sway bar uses Heim joints for making adjustments--perhaps the B2 was not quite that evolved. As for the aux. gauge pod, I believe it is likely an authentic Alpina installation--a cruder predecessor to the 4-gauge pod (including boost gauge) first installed on B7s. And as already commented on by Shipper, the speedo lacks the "Alpina" logo, which apparently doesn't show until the B7s. Last, the long-tube headers really catch my eye--would love to know whether they're part of the original Alpina exhaust. Great car!

[ngrosso]

Sorry I haven't responded to your post I completely missed seeing it! Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us. We are well under way in starting the restoration process. We sent the engine to a very good mechanic and have made some discoveries that are adding thoughts about having a B2 engine oppose to to a B2 exterior kit. We have found non oem, cam shaft, intake manifold, exhaust system, distributor, distributor rotor and of course webber carbs. At the moment we are trying to identify if these enhancements are Alpinas work or if it was someone who went to town on the motor. We are going to have the car undergo a full and thorough repaint of the "fjord blue" and will add a silver demo set as we have found it should have.

[Bert Poliakoff]

Front air dam appears to be Alpina. The Alpina air dam would be mounted over an original metal "pan" for lack of a better word. If the paint is reasonably decent I would keep the car as a survivor. A car is only original once and something to consider. You might try to contact Todd Howerton sometimes on this forum as "alpinacsi" or you can find him at outlaw disc brakes which you can find by googling. You will find he is the guru on E24 Alpinas and will set you in the right direction. I don't know if I would go off much further without talking with Todd

[ngrosso]

Thank you for the idea of reaching out to Todd, I have emailed outlaw disc brakes and hope to be put in touch with him soon. The paint unfortunately shows bubbling in a couple areas and to preserve our Karmann body we are thinking the best thing to do is to do a full repaint. We were in the camp of originality but once we saw that along with some cracking we decided to go the repaint route. Thanks for the air dam advice, I will look into that. Your 81 e24 is looking good, good luck with the restoration.