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Thread: E36 M3 steering swivel u-joint upgrade

  1. #1
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    E36 M3 steering swivel rubber u-joint upgrade

    I'm not comfortable racing with a rubber guibo in the steering column anymore.
    After much searching on the internet I have concluded the alignment is not good enough to use a solid or Poly bushing in that location.

    This is for a race car that is driven on the street to and from the track. I'm not worried about harsness.
    On 900 lbs springs everything is harsh on the street :-)
    So here are the options I feel are available and I'm looking for feedback from those who have installed them on a left hand drive (LHD) E36:

    1. Create a solid lower columm assembly from combining two E46 lower column assembly as shown here :
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmgbPt2t6m4
    I hope those guys never crash their race car head-on in a wall as the collapsible function of the assembly is completely obliterated. I'm pretty sure the collapsing safety feature can be retained by shortening the stub at both u-joints.
    There is 2 choices of orientation available and the one they chose does not match the orientation of the u-joints.
    Clever but unsure it can be done safely.

    2. https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Swiv...311151454.html
    This is an aftermarket part MTC. Some E36 users mention the flanges are too short to engage the splines deep enough to be safe. Some don't. Maybe its a case of uni-bodies not being exactly the same. I have that issue with the rear wheel well. Part number 32311151454 from the E21, E24, E28, E32 and E34.
    EDIT:
    This requires that a recess be filed to let the pass through bolt... pass through.
    It looks like this recess is necessary on both ends compared to the one end on the E36 design.

    3. A used BMW part # 32311151454 can be purchased from Ebay, http://data.bmrparts.com/ or local junkyard. If the length of the flange of the MTC unit is an issue I suppose this used part will have the same shortfall ??

    3 b) New part. BMW Genuine with corresponding $140 price... https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/32311151454/

    4. This is a beautiful piece but not for street use and I do drive my race car to and from the track... Worried about liability / See notes below.
    https://vorshlag-store.com/products/...shaft-assembly

    5. Use an aftermarket u-joint from Flaming River
    http://www.flamingriver.com/index.ph...5/s0008/FR1967
    As of now this my preference.
    Looking for people using this part that can confirm it is long enough to engage the splines on both sides.

    Thanks for sharing your experience.

    Note:
    I know some of those configurations work very well in an E30 but since the geometry is different I'm looking for E36 specific feedback.

    Other note:
    My situation is not unique but it is unusual. This is for a race car that is built to the maximum of the Sport Class - IS with BMW Club Racing.
    When I drive on the street I have the catalytic converter section installed as well as the exhaust. Airbags are still in the car and functional.
    Hand brake and horn still operate as designed. The camber on the front and rear is very close to OEM so the car suspension looks original besides the fact it is lowered by about 2 inches.

    I'm not delusional. The car is illegal in many aspects on principle.
    But because I removed the original 3 point safety belt it is in fact illegal to the letter and the principal of the law. Since this is going to hurt no one but me I feel I could talk myself out of a roadside inspection. I've never been stopped in 7 years. Touch wood.
    Last edited by Franky goes; 01-21-2019 at 06:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    I dont understand why you would use the flaming river piece but not the vorshlag piece? They are functionally the same. Not for street use because of liability purposes.

    I thought the aluminum e34 joint worked. I would try that 1st before fabbing up something

  3. #3
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    People report satisfaction with the E34 coupling. IIRC there's some kind of minor mod you have to do regarding the pinch bolts, but I don't recall what it is. I wouldn't buy this part used — it's still available new (https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/32311151454/).

    However the new original E34 coupling is more expensive than that Flaming River part, which seems very well designed and made race quality (chrome moly, needle bearing). If you don't want to spend that much then the BW repro part at $35 looks like a deal.

    Post your results/findings!

    Neil

  4. #4
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    Does replacing the rubber piece really make a difference (assuming the rubber piece isn't worn out)?

  5. #5
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    I had the e34 coupler in mine. Being on Detroit roads I switched back over to the stock rubber one. It didn’t make much of a difference to warrant a solid setup imo, for a street car.

    AKG and others make a poly and aluminum insert instead of rubber if you wanted, and buy a new stock setup for new bearings.

    The Vorschlag is just a flaming river I believe


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZEKTI View Post
    I had the e34 coupler in mine. Being on Detroit roads I switched back over to the stock rubber one. It didn’t make much of a difference to warrant a solid setup imo, for a street car.

    AKG and others make a poly and aluminum insert instead of rubber if you wanted, and buy a new stock setup for new bearings.

    The Vorschlag is just a flaming river I believe


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Great feedback! Also, Bimerok did a write up for his LS swap on a flaming river setup with metal steering shaft and U joints on both ends.

    If my memory serves, the vorshlag piece does integrate some form of a grease cert?

  7. #7
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZEKTI View Post
    I had the e34 coupler in mine. Being on Detroit roads I switched back over to the stock rubber one. It didn’t make much of a difference to warrant a solid setup imo, for a street car.
    Yeah, I wouldn't consider this something you'd want for street use. But the OP references racing...

    Neil

  8. #8
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    Neil,

    You are correct. There is a mod involved so the pinch bolt can pass through. I updated the original post.
    I never held the piece in my hand but from what I see on threads makes me believe the E34 u-joint requires a recess on both ends as the E36 part requires a recess only on the side of the rack.

    The one thing that tickles me with the flaming river joint is the set screw design.
    I much prefer the OEM pass through bolt design.
    Race cars see an lot of abuse. Just think of the bus stop at Watkins Glen...

    It will be a while, next summer, but I will follow-up.

    Thanks for the feedback so far.
    Last edited by Franky goes; 12-17-2018 at 05:56 PM.

  9. #9
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    If you want my 10K e34 coupler you can have it for free to mess around.

    Here is a full cheaper shaft - https://www.condorspeedshop.com/coll...conversion-e36

    Are you speaking on the alignment of the shaft that you don't want to use poly or solid? As in it's going to want to flex whatever you replace the stock coupler with?

    Hunk of aluminum - https://www.ebay.ie/itm/222187813051 (ended, but i've seen around)

    Poly - https://www.strongflex.eu/en/bmw-e36...553527490.html

    More expensive non flaming river look https://nahrods.com/product/e36-quic...teering-shaft/

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    Last edited by ZEKTI; 12-17-2018 at 09:00 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Would gladly pay shipping if OP not interested.....

  11. #11
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    I'm using the E34 joint. Works great.

  12. #12
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    Following Neil's comment that the BMW was more expensive that the Flamming River one I searched some more and found it here for sale: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...t/32311151454/

    I will udpdate the first post with this new information. That is an option I missed.

    Thanks.

  13. #13
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    Frankly, I found mine and will send it prolly this weekend. And yes that’s it, ha used to be $75 few years ago when I got mine.


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  14. #14
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    I have a complete flaming river shaft on my GTS2 car. Very precise. Haven't had any issues. Definitely feel everything with it.

  15. #15
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    @Franky goes

    Been using the Flaming River joint for over a year now. I also questioned if it would be long enough and now I know the answer is "yes" but not by much IMO. You will want to get it set and lined up at the rack and then make a punch mark on the upper spline to add a dimple for the set screw. Just make sure your steering wheel is straight before doing so.

    Gotta say if I didn't know I had the joint I never would have noticed it, not kidding. This is in comparison to a very good condition OE joint. The part appears to be of high quality so I'm glad I made the change. I would put it at the end of your list of things to do if you have other more important upgrades to do.

  16. #16
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    I switched from an old rubber disc to a new e34 u-joint and love how it feels. There is slightly more NVH but the steering feels that much more direct and crisp. As mentioned above, once you get the u-joint bolted in on one end you will have to pass a drill bit through the other bolt hole to make a notch in the shaft for the bolt to pass through. It’s totally not a big deal as it can be drilled up from underneath the car. The whole swap should only take you 30-40 min once the car is off the ground. I’m glad I did it. I DD the car in good weather as well as HPDE as much as I can.

  17. #17
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    I purchased the BMW part from ECS.
    I will update with comments on the feel when the car is rebuilt.

  18. #18
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    I had to get rid of the rubber so my headers wouldn't melt it. Used the e34 piece and I run slicks on track, no problems.

  19. #19
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    I'm also running an E34 joint and it works great. Where I live in NE the roads are terrible it's not harsh, there's just more feedback.

  20. #20
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    My last e36 I had an e34 joint and it worked great. I thought Lemforder wasn't making this part anymore? I could only find MTC ones when I was looking. Ended up getting a used one.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post
    I switched from an old rubber disc to a new e34 u-joint and love how it feels. As mentioned above, once you get the u-joint bolted in on one end you will have to pass a drill bit through the other bolt hole to make a notch in the shaft for the bolt to pass through. It’s totally not a big deal as it can be drilled up from underneath the car.
    But how safe is this? You've essentially drilled off a part of the steering shaft to allow the bolt to pass through, and now it's weakened. In other words, without risking weakening the steering shaft, this E34 u-joint really doesn't work on an E36, and that's why the E36 is not listed is a compatible model for this part number.

    One of the last remaining members of the E36 M3 original owners club...a dying breed indeed.

  22. #22
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    The shaft portion near the drill bit is really not under any stressors I wouldnt think since it is encapsulated by the clasps on both ends.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by olemiss540 View Post
    The shaft portion near the drill bit is really not under any stressors I wouldnt think since it is encapsulated by the clasps on both ends.
    Not sure I agree with that, especially when you replace the stock rubber guibo with the solid E34 joint there is nothing to absorb the NVH (primarily the V, as in vibration, of the NVH) and hence puts that much more stress on the shaft which is now weakened from drilling a portion of it away.

    One of the last remaining members of the E36 M3 original owners club...a dying breed indeed.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIIDEWAYS View Post
    Not sure I agree with that, especially when you replace the stock rubber guibo with the solid E34 joint there is nothing to absorb the NVH (primarily the V, as in vibration, of the NVH) and hence puts that much more stress on the shaft which is now weakened from drilling a portion of it away.
    I guess I am not sure how you are thinking it is weakened then. Just the act of removing some material causing it to be thinner where the bolt passes through? The stock shaft on one end already has this "feature" from the factory if my memory serves. Acting as a retainer from the shaft pulling out from the joint.

    This is a fairly common modification and I have never once seen a reported failure of the steering shaft caused by a broken shaft near/inside the coupler.

  25. #25
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    Yea, not a concern IMO. My understanding also, is the additional relief that's cut is captured by the clamp, and is exactly like the OEM one already there.

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