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Thread: 525tds vibrations at idle, fuel gauge won't works on occasion

  1. #1
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    99 525tds 00 328cic vert

    525tds rattle/vibrations at idle, fuel gauge won't works on occasion

    Hi bimmerforums. I bought a '99 525tds manual a few days ago, and I have a few issues with the car:

    1. Rattle / vibration at idle with a cold engine. The car starts right away regardless of temperature (was -4 celsius today) but there's significant vibration at idle. The engine idles perfectly warm or cold and there's no misfire or hesitation when I get on the gas. The rattle and vibration goes away as soon as I step on the gas (even a little). Could it be the fuel filter? Bad vacuum hose somewhere? Bad engine mounts?

    2. The fuel gauge will sometimes not work (goes to empty and yellow warning light comes on) regardless of how much fuel I have. If I put the ignition to the off position then back to the 2nd position a few times, the fuel gauge will work again. When it works, it seems to show the correct amount of fuel. Could it be a bad connection somewhere? If so, what are the most common failure points?

    More info - the car has 237k kilometeres, and BMW scanner (pa soft) seems to think they haven't been tampered with - BUT - when I got the car the ABS (ASC) pump was dead, so the speedo, abs, asc and board computer would not work - that includes the odometer. Can't really know how much the car was driven like that. I replaced the ABS pump's electronics (model 001) and everything works fine now. The car wasn't very well taken care of, but it doesn't smoke (even under hard acceleration), seems to drive as it should (for a 1.6 ton 140hp diesel), turbo works well and I can feel it kicking in at ~1600-1700 rpm.... The thermostat is stuck open, I'm replacing it on Monday, so the engine will not warm up, and the car seems a bit unstable at high speed compared to my 2000 323cic convertible (witch is ~100kg heaver)... don't know if it's supposed to be this "boaty" or there's something wrong with the anti-roll bars / upper control arms - they look OK and there's no knocking or weird noises.

    Any help regarding the idle vibrations and fuel gauge would be appreciated!
    Last edited by kanecvr; 12-15-2018 at 06:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    525tds vibrations at idle, fuel gauge won't works on occasion

    I wish we had diesels here in the states. The good news is a shaky idle and fuel gauge intermittent fail isn’t anything a couple hours won’t diagnose and fix.
    Couple questions.
    1) Does the car smoke at all when the engine sputters at idle?
    2) After it sputters, when you immediately go to the throttle does the motor load up and bog then take off, or does it take right off?
    The ABS module will need to be vin coded. The BMW dealer will say you can’t reprogram these modules, but you can and I have always installed used ABS modules and coded them to new vehicle. Any good BMW Indy shop will do it at minimal cost.
    As far as the gauge, the sending unit probably has a failing ground (earth) wire. If the gauge is at -0- when it’s not working that’s usually the case. If the gauge is fixed at a point where it would register when working as it should then it could be a sticky sending unit.
    The way to test is to gain access to the tank area. When the gauge goes out give the wiring loom a tug and see if it instantly pops on. If moving wire around doesn’t fix it, go under hood to relay box
    And swap the fuel relay(s) with another thats the same. Likely it’s a bad ground.
    Let us know on the sputter as well.


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    Last edited by 1gr8e39; 12-16-2018 at 06:56 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the info @1gr8e39!

    The engine does not smoke or sputter / hesitate under acceleration, whether in gear or not. It runs great. A bit low on power at low RPM, but when the turbo kicks in, I can definetly feel the kick. No black smoke, no blue smoke, and very little steam in cold weather - much less then on my 323i stroker. I have a feeling the vibration is caused by either a broken / damaged engine mount, or the transmission (belt that goes over the alternator / water pump / etc) belt damper. The damper is broken - this morning I got a red battery indicator in the dashboard, and when I put a voltmeter on the battery, it had 12.6v with the engine off and 12.1 with it on - so I checked under the hood and the transmission belt was off! I put it back in place, and pushed down on the shock / damper and then the indicator went away, and got 14.2v at the battery leads with the engine on.... there are lots of little annoying things wrong with this car, as expected of a 19 year old vehicle.

    As for the fuel gauge - thanks for the tip! I think it is a bad ground somewhere like you said - it sometimes stops working when I hit a pothole, and starts working again when I hit another one - but not always. I checked the floaters and they seem ok. When the gauge works, it indicates the correct amount of fuel. I'll remove as much as the interior as I can and start tracing the wiring.

  4. #4
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    UPDATE!

    First off, Merry Christmas!

    Here's what I've managed to do so far:

    - replaced the fan belt tensioner
    - installed a thermostat (there was none installed whatsoever)

    The idle rattle / vibrations are still there, even when the engine get up to temperature. Again, the engines runs well, no smoke or hesitation. The engine mounts look ok, and pulling on the engine makes the whole car move left/right, so I guess the mounts are good. I'm starting to suspect the vibration dampener is the culprit. I didn't even know such a part existed on the car, since this is my first diesel, but the more I read about diesel engines, the more I discover.

    I'm worried about why there was no t-stat installed in the car. I'm guessing it overheated and the previous owner decided to remove it completely. I drove it around for a bit with the thermostat installed, and found that with the heater set to 32C the engine will not exeed 87C (hovers around 85-86) and with the heater at 20C it hovers around 88-90C. The temp needle stays in the middle of the gauge, so I guess temps are normal - but it is winter. Maybe it overheats in the summer? The plastic fan might be damaged and need replacing, or the fan clutch might be weak and it might not be spinning the fan fast enough. I'll be able to tell when it gets warmer.

    I'll replace the vibration dampener pulley when I can afford to (it's a bit expensive) and report back.
    Last edited by kanecvr; 12-25-2018 at 07:25 AM.

  5. #5
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    Hey! you can get a used vibration damper from a M5x engine and try if it's the culprit. If you own another 6 cyl swap them and see. The rattle (slight off balance vibrations felt on certain low RPM ranges) could be the dual mass flywheel too, I have a similar issue on my newly acquired 523i manual. Or maybe the clutch components are skectchy (pressure plate? disc that has a loose spline insert?) Does it "tings and rattle" for a split second or two when you suddenly accelerate out of low RPM range on a lower gear like 2nd or 3rd?
    Does them idle rattles goes away if you barely push the clutch? > the TO bearing fork has a crappy plastic pin on the passenger side, it breaks and it makes some strange noises. A silicon bronze pin can be obtained/installed but you need to drop the transmission.
    Does rattling stop if you push the clutch all the way in? then it might be a bad throwout bearing, in which case I recommend you still replace/service the crappy plastic pivot for the fork.
    Any manual BMW is way more enjoyable without a CDV, but them diesels are especially more fun after deleting the CDV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW congrats on the car! I love them E39 manual diesels.
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    Hey! you can get a used vibration damper from a M5x engine and try if it's the culprit. If you own another 6 cyl swap them and see. The rattle (slight off balance vibrations felt on certain low RPM ranges) could be the dual mass flywheel too, I have a similar issue on my newly acquired 523i manual. Or maybe the clutch components are skectchy (pressure plate? disc that has a loose spline insert?) Does it "tings and rattle" for a split second or two when you suddenly accelerate out of low RPM range on a lower gear like 2nd or 3rd?
    Nope, once you rev the engine, even a bit, the vibration goes away. Right now I'm confident it's the vibration damper built into the crankshaft pulley, and I think the part is exclusive to diesel engines, since I checked the one on my convertible, and it's a simple metal pulley made from one solid piece. Size is different too... The clutch does slide a tiny bit, but the flywheel feels fine since i can't feel any vibrations when the car starts moving...


    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    Does them idle rattles goes away if you barely push the clutch? > the TO bearing fork has a crappy plastic pin on the passenger side, it breaks and it makes some strange noises. A silicon bronze pin can be obtained/installed but you need to drop the transmission. Does rattling stop if you push the clutch all the way in? then it might be a bad throwout bearing, in which case I recommend you still replace/service the crappy plastic pivot for the fork.
    Nope. It only goes away when I rev the engine. The throw-out bearing is good - the only transmission issue the car has are the bushings from the sifter linkage (really hard to find 3rd), the driveshaft bushing and the final drive bushings.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    BTW congrats on the car! I love them E39 manual diesels.
    Thanks. It makes a great daily driver - pulls well enough over 2500 rpm, and it's very economical if I keep it under 2000 rpm.
    Last edited by kanecvr; 01-02-2019 at 08:18 AM.

  7. #7
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    Sorry for the brainfart on them pulleys, they're indeed different. FWIW I don't think it's the pulley causing that shaky idle. All of the failing harmonic balancers I've seen the car felt like crap on almost every RPM range and it shook a lot (diesels and gas engines). That's why I keep suggesting other causes. I'm not familiar with the idle control solenoids/valves on diesels but have you checked those?
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jicaino View Post
    Sorry for the brainfart on them pulleys, they're indeed different. FWIW I don't think it's the pulley causing that shaky idle. All of the failing harmonic balancers I've seen the car felt like crap on almost every RPM range and it shook a lot (diesels and gas engines). That's why I keep suggesting other causes. I'm not familiar with the idle control solenoids/valves on diesels but have you checked those?
    And you are correct. The pulley is perfectly fine and looks brand new...

    It's been suggested that the cause of the vibrations at idle is the injection pump advance, and I read that to get the advance right it needs to be rotated slightly while checking parameters on a computer with diagnostic software. As I understand it's a very finicky job - so - I'll have it taken to a garage for a friend to try and sort it out. Worse case scenario, there's something actually wrong with the pump itself, witch is preventing the car from idling correctly - alltough it runs perfectly fine over 900-1000 rpm.... it has plenty of power too, and no hesitation whatsoever, so it's unlikely that the pump has any faults - but you never know.

  9. #9
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    Thought so... didn't sound like harmonic balancer issues

    Have you checked:

    -fuel pump in the tank
    -fuel pump in the engine
    -vacuum pump and associated routes
    -fuel pressure?
    -injectors, flow, pattern and leaks?
    -idle detection switch at the throttle body? If you unplug it and it stops acting up then the iffy idle is due to that sensor. Diesels control idle by a "low" detection switch on the TB that tells the DME to regulate the idle via maps.
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

  10. #10
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    It could also be a clogged filter, but I'd put my money on things in this order

    -engine fuel pump (top side can be dismantled and cleaned/replaced)
    -injectors (Diesel engines misfire is almost always injector issues related)
    -in-tank fuel pump
    -vacuum pump and related lines
    Diehard E39 driver.
    I'd rather die or take a walk before driving an E60 or any BMW made after Y2K.
    ​"Your momma's so ugly she makes Bangle cars look nice"

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