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Thread: S54 e34 touring?

  1. #1
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    S54 e34 touring?

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    Hi everyone, so I have recently purchased a damn near complete wrecked e46 m3. I didn’t really have a plan for the car at first, but it was so cheap I had to pick it up. The chassis is not usable, frame is extremely bent. So I have been pondering the idea of swapping the s54 into my e34 touring, my 300k mile m50 is getting a bit tired anyways I have already manual swapped my touring, and would be using the ZF 5 speed and 3.23 lsd that’s already in the car. Maybe down the road I’ll convert the smg trans to a true 6 speed and find a higher geared lsd. I know the s54 will bolt up no problem with m50 motor mount arms, m50 oil pan, and m50 oil pump. As well as deleting the DBW; I have questions regarding harness/dme options (since everyone says it’s difficult to get an s54 to run in a non-e46 chassis) Could I use the stock e34 harness and dme? Do I have to use a standalone? Could the m3 ecu/harness work in the e34 if the ecu was flashed? Just looking for some insight and info, someone to point me in the right direction for the best options. I know it’s not a popular swap but I figured there might be a handful out there that have done it. Thanks in advance!!




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  2. #2
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    You could probably make it "run" on the E34 harness and DME, but not in any way well enough to justify the swap. Forget about that option.

    The S54 into E36 swap is extremely well known and sorted out (not by me, but someone). I don't know if the info and software you need is FREE, but it's out there. I'm pretty positive someone can flash the stock DME to delete all of the undesirable features that won't work in the E34 chassis. But there are probably great standalone options as well (like Motec for $5000 lol).

  3. #3
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    Searched high n dry for any S54 swapped E34s and cant find anything either. I too have a touring with a ZF and 3.23. Desperate for power again after replacing my money-shifted S50US with a spare M50tu and strongly considering an S54.

    I'm gathering that it will be pretty easy to make the S54 work in an E34. There's a company called Kassel Performance that does ECU tuning and makes S54 E36 wiring harnesses, I emailed them an inquired about an E34-specific harness and they said they've done one before and could provide.

    Biggest challenge might be the exhaust manifold but if there's any companies who make an S54 E30 manifold I'm thinking that'd be the way to go.

    Any progress on this?

  4. #4
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    obd1 converted S52? would be an almost drop in swap

  5. #5
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    Ive got a 93 525it with an s54 in it. I didnt do the work myself and I dont know that much about it but ill try to help. As far as im concerned im using a chopped up s54 engine harness. I know for a fact that im using the s54 ecu. if you need any info id love to give it to you, just let me know how to find it!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, there is also a guy in norway i think that has one... its a sedan though. you can find him on instagram @bimmerpederson

    - - - Updated - - -

    also saw the headers comment, ive got custom headers... im also trying to get a harness from kassell to make it cleaner but i need the $$$

  6. #6
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    Damnn so it has been done! Thats awesome man congrats. Seems like a ridiculously cool engine to have in an E34. People complain about the weight but the wagon weighs the same as an M3 convertible funny enough. Surprising how uncommon of a swap it is considering people stuff them into anything nowadays.

    Just checked out that guys instagram. Thanks for that!! That'll help maintain my desire while the savings are happening.

    I have a list of questions for you, thanks a ton in advance for any info!:
    - 5-speed ZF trans or the M3's 6-speed?
    - Which differential?
    - What did it cost to get the headers done?
    - Are you using an electronic throttle or is the S54 converted to cable throttle? - if electronic, which gas pedal are you using?

    Good to know that the S54 ECU is currently being used in another E34, although I figured it would work if e30/36 guys do it.

  7. #7
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    I can answer some of those questions, given the research my buddy and I have put into S54-swapping his E36 M3.

    - 5-speed ZF trans or the M3's 6-speed?

    Either will work fine. The ZF 320z is strong enough to handle the S54 and is easy enough to find. The Getrag 420g 6-speed is a little trickier to find, as most have V8-specific bellhousings. The only cars that came with the i6 bellhousing on the 420g were E46 M3 manuals, so those can be a little pricey to obtain. Another option is to get an E46 SMG (which is the same 420g but with actuators on it for shifting), remove the electronics, and install a manual bellhousing. A lot of E46 M3 parts cars have SMG's, so that's certainly an option to explore.

    The other difference is the gearing... the S54 likes to rev high so you want a nice short rear gearing, like 3.46 or 3.64. With a 6-speed you can still have reasonable highway RPM's and decent fuel economy, whereas with a 5-speed you'll be spinning up pretty high on the highway. It really depends on what you're trying to do with your car.

    - Which differential?

    As mentioned above, you'll want a fairly short ratio to get the revs up— the S54 does not like to be bogged in low RPM's.

    - What did it cost to get the headers done?

    I have heard of people using E36-fitment headers and then modifying them to fit the E34— that's fairly common with S52 swaps.

    - Are you using an electronic throttle or is the S54 converted to cable throttle? - if electronic, which gas pedal are you using?

    Unless you're swapping in a Euro S50 with the 6 mechanical ITB's, you'll have to keep the electronic throttle. It would be a huge pain in the ass to convert the S54 to a cable throttle, especially given how much the DME relies on the electronic throttles to run the engine properly. E36 guys use the E46 M3 drive-by-wire gas pedal, so that should work for the E34 as well. You may have to get creative with mounting it to the floor though.
    1995 525i 5-speed - Thread

  8. #8
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    My car already has the ZF 320z which is the route I'll most likely go. I'm more curious if the medium case 3.23 I have now is up to the job strength-wise or if it's worth it to find an engine mated to a 6-speed and a swap in large-case rear end. Not interested in converting an SMG as manuals are easy enough to come by.

    This car will be used for road trips often so I want the taller gearing mostly because of my 5-speed and it helps massively with fuel economy compared to the 3.46 I had with my old S50US. My '94 M3 has similar characteristics to the S54 so I'm already used to keeping the revs up, used to have a 3.15 ratio in it even although smaller tires on an e36 helps.

    As far as using E36 fitment headers they'd have to be some S54-swap specific headers as the exhaust ports and manifold mountings are different than m50/52 engines. That to me means either cheap and shitty or expensive enough to consider custom. Although if I'd have to drop thousands on custom I'd reconsider.

    I've read somewhere that an E32 750i has an electronic throttle and the pedal fits, did not see whether it was compatible with the S54 swap though. Hoping someone can shed some light on that.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDental View Post
    My car already has the ZF 320z which is the route I'll most likely go. I'm more curious if the medium case 3.23 I have now is up to the job strength-wise or if it's worth it to find an engine mated to a 6-speed and a swap in large-case rear end. Not interested in converting an SMG as manuals are easy enough to come by.

    This car will be used for road trips often so I want the taller gearing mostly because of my 5-speed and it helps massively with fuel economy compared to the 3.46 I had with my old S50US. My '94 M3 has similar characteristics to the S54 so I'm already used to keeping the revs up, used to have a 3.15 ratio in it even although smaller tires on an e36 helps.

    As far as using E36 fitment headers they'd have to be some S54-swap specific headers as the exhaust ports and manifold mountings are different than m50/52 engines. That to me means either cheap and shitty or expensive enough to consider custom. Although if I'd have to drop thousands on custom I'd reconsider.

    I've read somewhere that an E32 750i has an electronic throttle and the pedal fits, did not see whether it was compatible with the S54 swap though. Hoping someone can shed some light on that.
    thatd diff is strong enough. and while yea i think a shorter ratio will make the car more "peppy" it will also make it less dailyable with the 320z considering it does not have an overdrive 6th, just a 1:1 5th.
    headers wise, i did the ebay long tubes on my s52 and had no modifications to do. neither before or after the engine risers.
    and for the throttle, i cant help you with the oem DME, but going standalone would make that a possibility.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hofmeister View Post
    thatd diff is strong enough. and while yea i think a shorter ratio will make the car more "peppy" it will also make it less dailyable with the 320z considering it does not have an overdrive 6th, just a 1:1 5th.
    headers wise, i did the ebay long tubes on my s52 and had no modifications to do. neither before or after the engine risers.
    and for the throttle, i cant help you with the oem DME, but going standalone would make that a possibility.
    Headers are pretty easy to sort out with an s50/52 swap, i just used my stock cast-iron e34 m50 manifolds with the s50. Were yours e36 fitment headers? If so and they didnt require modification then possibly could use the VAC e36 s54 adapter pipes that adapt to stock manifolds.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDental View Post
    Headers are pretty easy to sort out with an s50/52 swap, i just used my stock cast-iron e34 m50 manifolds with the s50. Were yours e36 fitment headers? If so and they didnt require modification then possibly could use the VAC e36 s54 adapter pipes that adapt to stock manifolds.
    Thats pretty kuch what I was suggesting. That e36 stuff has enough room

  12. #12
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    To return to a question in one of your earlier posts, my vote would be to make a 6 speed trans work and go shorter on the diff so your 6th is something you’re happy with on the highway. A 5 speed + road trip ready diff behind a motor that makes its numbers from a high redline is not a recipe for something that will impress you or feel worth it off the line. I’m not trying to beat the heavy car thing into the ground or discourage you because the finished product would undoubtedly be very cool but it’s worth considering that in stock form an s54 is short of a standard m60b40 in the torque department, which ultimately is what makes cars fun and quick.
    Little side anecdote - I have an m54/6spd X5 and it demolishes earlier 5 speed models in both drivability and performance because the motor is just a little small for the car no two ways about it. The closer ratios really help keep it alive where you need it to be. Also turns 3k @ 80.


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsixe34 View Post
    To return to a question in one of your earlier posts, my vote would be to make a 6 speed trans work and go shorter on the diff so your 6th is something you’re happy with on the highway. A 5 speed + road trip ready diff behind a motor that makes its numbers from a high redline is not a recipe for something that will impress you or feel worth it off the line. I’m not trying to beat the heavy car thing into the ground or discourage you because the finished product would undoubtedly be very cool but it’s worth considering that in stock form an s54 is short of a standard m60b40 in the torque department, which ultimately is what makes cars fun and quick.
    Little side anecdote - I have an m54/6spd X5 and it demolishes earlier 5 speed models in both drivability and performance because the motor is just a little small for the car no two ways about it. The closer ratios really help keep it alive where you need it to be. Also turns 3k @ 80.
    I'm a little worried about added costs if a custom driveshaft and linkage is required. Would be nice to just play OEM Lego. Wonder if the front section of a 540i driveshaft and/or shifter linkage would work, might have to take a gamble and play trial and error on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hofmeister View Post
    Thats pretty kuch what I was suggesting. That e36 stuff has enough room
    Good to know thanks! Opens up some doors.

  14. #14
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    Upon some research in e36 threads it looks like they can use an e36 auto driveshaft for the 6-speed. There are complaints about the splines not having much left to grab but I know people can overlook the e36/e46 M3's thicker giubo during swaps. Good thing i hoard and still have my auto shaft. 6-speed is looking more likely now.

  15. #15
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    I have an S62 in my E34. Many of the electronic aspects are the same. It's quite easy, run a stock S54 DME with EWS deleted, dyno mode, etc. You'll need a custom piggyback harness, to which I strongly recommend adding Canbus controls (AC fan, CEL code readability, etc). I had mine made for about $300 IIRC.

  16. #16
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    first id like to say sorry for not responding...

    im using the m3's 6 speed

    the stock 4.10 lsd that came in my wagon (custom driveshaft) although, I plan on changing it soon as im almost at 4k rmp's at 80mph

    headers were included in the price from my friend. it was 2k for the whole thing. good luck getting it that cheap. im sure you could have someone to custom headers for around 1k... Im also pretty sure that some aftermarket s54 headers would fit (dont quote me on that)

    And then for throttle I am using the electronic throttle, with the m3 pedal. I dont know how it works, and i have had many problems with it. (mostly it going into some sort of limp mode and being undriveable. but that may have to do with the tune i have dumping to much fuel in.

    once again sorry for the late response, ill throw a photo in to make up for it. Mocking up a new csf rad, a thread coming on this soon... DIRECT BOLTTTTTTTTTT YESSSS. also dont know why the photo is upside down?

    IMG_4405.jpg

  17. #17
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    S54 has similar numbers to the S38, while the E46 weighs more and the E34 less than commonly talked about - 3200-3400lb for M3 coupe, ~3300-3900 for E34, possibly as low as 3000 for a stripper 518i. That's without any lightweight/deleted parts. My personal datapoints: my 544iTM was ~3650, my 525iTA 3460-3470, and the state of Florida claimed a stock 535iM was 3550.

    I wouldn't worry about the weight. Torque is nice (I miss my M62) but the S54 has enough of it for work; for play, there's an 8000RPM powerband instead. Many drivers (and car setups, including stock BMW) seem to have a tacit aversion to downshifting, and pair gearboxes and diffs to the point that first is useless and top gear feels like there should be another one or two. I changed my 3.15 to a 2.65 and basically gained a gear.

    Highly recommend a 6-speed over the 5. The 5 is a semi-close-ratio, while the 6 has the same first five and adds an overdrive gear. I'd take advantage of that and use the same 3.23 rear end as fitted to the 5. That would be like taking a stock M50 manual E34, adding 38% torque, 72% power, and an extra cruising gear. The 188mm diff can handle far more than an S54's 265ft-lb or so.

    You can't use the V8 420G. Nor can you use one with an L6 bellhousing, because the input shafts are different. Also, bearing preloads are set in part by the transmission case assembly, mixin-n-matchin which could mess up the preload. You can use a factory E46 M3 6-speed manual, or for ~$300 in machine work, have the E46 M3 SMG converted to a manual. Prevailing wisdom is that the SMG shifter is easier on the synchros than most humans, but until I hear that it double-clutches, I'm skeptical that lightning-fast shifts are any better with a hydraulic ram than a hammy fist. You can also use the GS6-37BZ, GS6-53BZ, and a couple other Euro-market gearboxes. Earlier 37BZ (M54-fitment) will definitely work, 53BZ requires an $800 custom clutch IIRC, and the later 37BZ (N52-fitment) are an unknown. You can also use an E36 EVO 6-speed; it's the same box as the E46 except for a different clutch. As a footnote, the 420G also came in M30/S38 fitment for the 1995 E34 M5. It won't work, but its crossmember and shifter might (see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDental View Post
    I'm a little worried about added costs if a custom driveshaft and linkage is required. Would be nice to just play OEM Lego. Wonder if the front section of a 540i driveshaft and/or shifter linkage would work, might have to take a gamble and play trial and error on that.
    Driveshaft length change is in the ballpark of $250. That's less than the cost difference between some clutches. I wouldn't trust partial spline engagement on the driveshaft; that's hokey. You can gain 5mm compared to the stock E34 giubo by using one for an E36 or E46 M3.

    You can't mix-n-match driveshaft halves. For one thing, the factory U-joints are staked, and for another, the two halves are balanced as an assembly.

    The E34 540iM shifter probably won't work, but is not the hardest thing to customize; it's basically two rods that you could lengthen or shorten. This thread says an E36 328 or E36 M3 shifter will work. Cross-referencing DSSR lengths on UUC's website adds some confusion, as the shifter length is implied to be common with later 325 and 525 as well, though the BMW partnumbers are different. This other thread says a 530iA driveshaft was the right length, which means the S5x 420G sits further back than the V8 one, which is consistent with shift rod length differences. However that thread also states a 26- or 30-spline clutch, which is hard to confuse for the actual 10-spline piece, speaking unfavorably to the information's reliability.

    What little evidence (mostly those two threads) I could find suggests that the S5x 420G requires a custom crossmember to fit the E34. I looked into the possibility of a 1995 E34 M5 crossmember 23712227772 and found nothing.
    Last edited by moroza; 07-31-2020 at 07:31 PM.

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    Well it’s about time you showed up

    All this talk about 8k RPM reminds me that you’ll need to add to your list finding a solution for showing all of them on the cluster. Does the e34 m5 one go to 8?


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsixe34 View Post
    Well it’s about time you showed up

    All this talk about 8k RPM reminds me that you’ll need to add to your list finding a solution for showing all of them on the cluster. Does the e34 m5 one go to 8?
    Well, I have my stock cluster and i like shifting at 8 mpg... its right after 7k!

  20. #20
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    Ha! I’m sitting in my car (yes, parked ) looking at the cluster as I type this and I guess that probably works huh...


  21. #21
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    I've got a spare E46 M3 6-speed taking room up on my patio if you need one. Weak 3rd gear synchro if speed shifting but fine otherwise.

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    Thanks for the input! So sounds like custom driveshaft is the way to go. Would be sweet if the 530iA one worked tho as that'd be cheap to come by. I figured the v8 and s38 6-speeds wouldnt work. I do know for a fact that the n52/54 etc uses a different bellhousing so that trans is out as well. I'd hope to just score a whole wrecked 6-speed car or at least an engine mated to a trans. Have a funny feeling that e36 linkage might work.. I went through that linkage length confusion with my M3 as it's production date is 12/1993 and previous owner had Z3M stuff in it, difference is caused by using a longer (or shorter cant remember) length selector rod joint on the early cars. I have a few laying around (thanks to that) i can experiment with. Hoping a custom member is not needed. I have zf, getrag and auto crossmembers to experiment with as well. Shifters themselves are interchangable between most cars but the E34 525 uses a way longer carrier and selector rod than e36, which is what leads me to think the e36 stuff might work with a 420g.

    I guess ill run the 3.23 diff i have to start and put the 535i 3.46 back in if im craving the gearing enough.

    Funny thing is about the driveshafts is my car had a mixed shaft when i bought it. Front was a getrag, rear half auto. No vibrations surprisingly.

    So for the potential bolt/plug in swap is looking like:
    - stock headers with e36 adapter pipes
    - e34 m50 oil pump and pan
    - Kassel Performance e34-specific s54 harness
    - stock ecu
    - e34 530iA driveshaft - fingers crossed
    - e36 shifter carrier and selector rod
    - e34 525iA trans crossmember - worth a try
    - e34 m5 tachometer

    Making it my goal to do this whole swap with as little wiring and fabricating as possible.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtopaul View Post
    I've got a spare E46 M3 6-speed taking room up on my patio if you need one. Weak 3rd gear synchro if speed shifting but fine otherwise.
    Thanks but im going to try and buy a whole wrecked car and if it doesnt work out then source engine+trans.

  24. #24
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    Update!!!!

  25. #25
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    Probably wont have any regarding the s54 for a while. But i can now confirm that the zf 6-speeds from e9x 328/330/335’s can work with M/S5x engines with the right lego pieces. However 335i trans gearing sucks for an s54 and the 328i trans is nowhere near as strong as a 420g. I’ll likely stick with the 420g.

    I know a guy who did indeed use the 525iA crossmember as a direct fit a 330i zf 6-speed in his e34. Posts are on the Facebook group. The e9x zf’s are the exact same length so crossing fingers that the 420g is too.

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