New Member from Central CT, need some direction.

[shortcut10467]

First off I'd like to introduce myself,
My name is Peter, I've been lurking around the different forums for a while as well as some of the facebook groups. I finally decided to join so I can potentially learn more than my lurking provides me. I recently purchased my 540i a few months ago and have already dealt with many of the common gremlins (Replaced my sunroof cassette, resealed vapor barriers, replaced tie-rods as well as steering link, replaced thrust arms, replaced the cluster which had failed pixels and was also wrong for the car, replaced the steering angle sensor, replaced the DME with one from RPM Motorsports with an EWS Bypass because for some reason it had a 740i DME in it, as well as a few other odd-balls.) To say the least, the kid I got it from should never touch a BMW again.

I've taken it under my wing and as you can tell for the short time I've had it, I'm in for the long haul

I do have a few questions for some of the more senior/experienced members and maybe they can point me in the right direction. I am looking to get as much as I can out of it in it's N/A form without cracking the engine open. I've browsed around during my lurking and have seen many people frown upon it, but I personally enjoy the challenge and often take a different approach than the masses. Currently I have on the car an M60 Manifold, 7" velocity stack w/ cone filter, 1 step colder plugs, header-back exhaust, de-catted with bottle resonators placed in those locations, and a Y back 2 3/4" exhaust to maintain some back-pressure, along with a 3.15 auto peg-leg diff, and a E60 short-shifter mod.

My questions are as follows;

I am interested in headers, after browsing around I still can't get a handle on what fits and what doesn't I've pretty much cut it down to either the S62 factory manifolds, or the Becker headers(Better than eBay OBX based by the look of the welds and metal used, but still won't burn a hole in the wallet) Now my research leads me to believe that the M62tu clearances won't allow for it to be a simple install so I'm not too sure as to the direction to take, if anyone with experience can guide me in this I would be grateful.

Pulleys... Is there a company that makes pulleys, a pulley kit, or anything for the M62TU, I hoping to get lucky and find an ATI Super Damper for the M62, but no luck

Lastly, Throttle body... I've read so much on throttle bodies lately my brain is mush... So we can fit the 84mm off the N62 with a re-pin of the connector, but we need to look for the 308-2 part number, as well as bore out the throttle body adapter to the manifold. But aside from the $1000 DINAN, which says for the E53 is there an option which may also better suite? If not, then a repin and 308-2 I guess it will have to be(I'm not particularly fond of electrical and know my boundaries).

And below a few pics of my imperfect beauty, as well as one of the X3 when I first brought home the 540, and also my previous project 1996 Infiniti G20 with imported Primera front-end SR20VE Precision 5830B square track setup.

[scubajim20]

Welcome, nice looking car. I am also in CT, Milford. I can't offer any advice in the mods. I have also done a crap load to mine that I purchased in March. I want to keep mine as stock as possible. Enjoy!

[JimLev]

Welcome to the forum Peter.
No need to double post, until you have 10 posts they will need to be approved by one of us. It's just to prevent spam.

Not familiar with Becker headers, got a link?
The non vanos exhaust manifold ('97 + '98) should be the same as the M5.
I have long tube headers and the complete Dinan intake from the air filter to the intake manifold along with the the stage 5 tune. Larger water pump and PS pulleys too, the company I bought them from is long gone.
More on the headers later.

[edjack]

Why do you think you "need" back pressure?

Back pressure another opinion - http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_pr...torquemyth.htm

Destroying a myth.

Some say that "an engine needs backpressure to work correctly." Is this true? No. It would be more correct to say, "a perfectly stock engine that cannot adjust its fuel delivery needs backpressure to work correctly." This idea is a myth. As with all myths, however, there is a hint of fact with this one. Particularly, some people equate backpressure with torque, and others fear that too little backpressure will lead to valve burning. The first reason why people say "backpressure is good" is because they believe that increased backpressure by itself will increase torque, particularly with a stock exhaust manifold. Granted, some stock manifolds act somewhat like performance headers at low RPM, but these manifolds will exhibit poor performance at higher RPM. This, however does not automatically lead to the conclusion that backpressure produces more torque. The increase in torque is not due to backpressure, but to the effects of changes in fuel/air mixture, which will be described in more detail below. The other reason why people say "backpressure is good" is because they hear that cars (or motorcycles) that have had performance exhaust work done to them would then go on to burn exhaust valves. Now, it is true that such valve burning has occurred as a result of the exhaust mods, but it isn't due merely to a lack of backpressure. The internal combustion engine is a complex, dynamic collection of different systems working together to convert the stored power in gasoline into mechanical energy to push a car down the road. Anytime one of these systems are modified, that mod will also indirectly affect the other systems, as well. Now, valve burning occurs as a result of a very lean-burning engine. In order to achieve a theoretical optimal combustion, an engine needs 14.7 parts of oxygen by mass to 1 part of gasoline (again, by mass). This is referred to as a stochiometric (chemically correct) mixture, and is commonly referred to as a 14.7:1 mix. If an engine burns with less oxygen present (13:1, 12:1, etc...), it is said to run rich. Conversely, if the engine runs with more oxygen present (16:1, 17:1, etc...), it is said to run lean. Today's engines are designed to run at 14.7:1 for normally cruising, with rich mixtures on acceleration or warm-up, and lean mixtures while decelerating. Getting back to the discussion, the reason that exhaust valves burn is because the engine is burning lean. Normal engines will tolerate lean burning for a little bit, but not for sustained periods of time. The reason why the engine is burning lean to begin with is that the reduction in backpressure is causing more air to be drawn into the combustion chamber than before. Earlier cars (and motorcycles) with carburetion often could not adjust because of the way that backpressure caused air to flow backwards through the carburetor after the air already got loaded down with fuel, and caused the air to receive a second load of fuel. While a bad design, it was nonetheless used in a lot of vehicles. Once these vehicles received performance mods that reduced backpressure, they no longer had that double-loading effect, and then tended to burn valves because of the resulting over-lean condition. This, incidentally, also provides a basis for the "torque increase" seen if backpressure is maintained. As the fuel/air mixture becomes leaner, the resultant combustion will produce progressively less and less of the force needed to produce torque. Modern BMWs don't have to worry about the effects described above, because the DME (car's computer) that controls the engine will detect that the engine is burning leaner than before, and will adjust fuel injection to compensate. So, in effect, reducing backpressure really does two good things: The engine can use work otherwise spent pushing exhaust gas out the tailpipe to propel the car forward, and the engine breathes better. Of course, the DME's ability to adjust fuel injection is limited by the physical parameters of the injection system (such as injector maximum flow rate and fuel system pressure), but with exhaust backpressure reduction, these limits won't be reached. - Adapted from Thomas V. And more: Back Pressure opinions Take the two extremes; a '49 Chevy and a Top Fuel Dragster. Remember the Chevy had a flattened tip on the tailpipe? Those engines were designed to develop more power with some back pressure. They were low rpm with mild valve timing. They were torquey at 1000 to 3000 rpm then fell off drastically. The exhaust back pressure reduced the tendency of the intake charge to try to follow the exhaust out the pipe before the exhaust valve closed. Sort of a reverse cylinder stuffing a little like supercharging. This only worked for a low rpm engine. In most high performance engines, the detriment was far greater than the gain. It probably helped milage on the Chevy, too. One modern application of this principle is the Big Block Truck and RV engines. They will make more torque with a little back pressure. This means that they run stronger with long try- wye headers into a 3 inch single exhaust then they will with short headers into dual exhaust. Large aircraft engines(Allison and Merlin) and dragsters have stubby stacks to only direct the exhaust flow and give minimum back pressure. They are both designed to give maximum horsepower (a lot) at a fairly narrow RPM. If a little fuel goes out with the exhaust, so be it. Torque likes back pressure, Horsepower does not. Rich Interesting. I often wondered why the exhaust tip was flattened. BTW, I've heard this explanation about keeping the intake charge in the combustion chamber, but I thought the guy was trying to blow smoke into a warm orifice. Both my RVs (760 Ford V8 and a 6.8 liter V-10) had/have a single exhaust. Both engines were low-speed. I chalked it up to being cheaper than having two cats and dual exhaust. My BMW 4.4 liter V8 (5800 RPM redline, a real lugger!) also has a single exhaust, but the two banks have separate cats and O2 sensors before being joined together into what looks to be the size of a sewer pipe. I always used the idea that an engine is an air pump, and anything that will maximize flow is best. I guess it's not that simple. Exhaust system design is apparently not a slam-dunk, and willy-nilly mods are not to be encouraged. Thanks for the point of view. Ed Jacklitch That's why the dragster exhaust shoots flames out, as do the aircraft V12s! BTW, I've read that the dragster exhaust can contribute as much as 1200 lbs of downforce! Ed Jacklitch

[shortcut10467]

Welcome to the forum Peter.
No need to double post, until you have 10 posts they will need to be approved by one of us. It's just to prevent spam.

I understand, I'm at work so when I submitted the post and it asked me to re-log in, basically telling me I had timed out by the time I had finished typing. Due to my experiences at many other forums, I have come across at times when the user times out it doesn't submit the thread, so my apology for that.

Not familiar with Becker headers, got a link?
The non vanos exhaust manifold ('97 + '98) should be the same as the M5.
I have long tube headers and the complete Dinan intake from the air filter to the intake manifold along with the the stage 5 tune. Larger water pump and PS pulleys too, the company I bought them from is long gone.
More on the headers later.

As far as the headers go, this is what I was curious about, but ya know, I didn't read it completely :smh: ... Looks like it's for the 740, so again dual pipe ends and possible tunnel issues... So Schmeidmann it is ^_^

Now your larger pulley's are they also lighter to reduce the parasitic drag of moving through a fluid medium?

[shortcut10467]

@edjack I agree with this to an extent, the numerous cars I've had on and off the dyno turbo cars hate back pressure hence my Infiniti pictured had 3.5" down-pipe back, no muffler, no resonator and every removal of a seemingly inhibiting exhaust component resulted in a + of around 2-3 whp with all other things being equal... Now production NA cars given their fuel mixtures and how they're tuned I feel require a certain level of back-pressure for optimal HP and TQ this means you may need to sacrifice some to get the other and vice versa. Now we can go to a built high compression race engine, though the engine may be the same casting as a production engine, internally they are completely different, once you start changing the air flow of the cylinders and increasing that figure and reaching the engines limits then every single bend of the exhaust becomes a factor in play, hence top fuel dragsters, as well as the fastest all motor civic all have pretty much direct dumps for exhausts. So on my street-able NA setup without the need to modify fuel type, fuel delivery because they are well within their efficiency I do in turn need some back pressure within the otherwise straight-piped and cat-less exhaust. I'm by no means an expert on the subject, but that's just my .02 from actual experience with previous cars I've owned and worked on.

[JimLev]

As far as the headers go, this is what I was curious about, but ya know, I didn't read it completely :smh: ... Looks like it's for the 740, so again dual pipe ends and possible tunnel issues... So Schmeidmann it is ^_^

Now your larger pulley's are they also lighter to reduce the parasitic drag of moving through a fluid medium?

What happened to your pics?

The larger pulleys are about the same weight, just spin the WP and PS pump a little slower so you pick up a few HP.
The headers came from Schmeidermann but were actually made in Italy.
You'll need some custom work done to connect them to the rest of your exhaust system. I added V-band clamps as well as ordering more SS tubing and reduce cones.
I had them ceramic coated inside and out.
All of this isn't going to get you 50+ HP. If your looking for M5 performance a supercharger or nitrous is about your only options.

Header_26.JPG


Header_28.JPG

Header33.JPG

DSCN0588.JPG

[shortcut10467]

JimLev I understand, I'm not too worried about minimal fab-work, a good friend has a fab-shop and is a damn good welder. I'm also not looking for M level performance, I know it will be difficult if not impossible with just bolt-ons. But I have confidence that the engine can make ~340-350hp, what that would translate to in whp I'm not too sure(probably somewhere in the ballpark of 300whp) . Now I may also be smoking crack at that point, but I'm up for the challenge; especially with my plans down the road being an N62 throttle body, Lightweight flywheel and clutch setup with CDV, Electric Fan w/csf radiator, Pulleys if I scour the interwebs and find a set, headers as we've been speaking about, and a tune possibly dudmd as my searching the forum has come up with them being a reliable source.

As far as the pics, I'm not sure... What seems to be the issue?? I can see them, are they not coming up??

btw if that direct-port n2o setup is yours that is sweet; seems like you have it all taken care of and set up properly with all your fail-safes in place... Hats off to you sir, that is pure eye candy for me

[JimLev]

350 at the crank would get you about 300 WHP.
The light weight flywheel would help a little and as you probably know add some rattle at idle.
Maybe a typo, but you want to remove the CDV.

I still can't see you pic.
Thanks, yes that is my engine.

[1gr8e39]

Welcome
Forced Induction and things such as headers are really just going to put you in M5 territory as far as spending. Good news though, there are a handful of inexpensive power adders that myself and others have done some irresponsible research on... just look at GearGrinder.
Anywho let me walk you through a few.
1) Exhaust- a set of Schmiedmann or Supersprint headers are a couple grand alone and that doesn’t include installation or the new hardware required behind them. The M62tu is really restricted from the factory tho, which is good for us. The M62 is a cross flow V8, and so if you can afford to pony up minimum $500 and more like $900 you could have a muffler shop weld up an x pipe from the downpipe back. With an x pipe you’d want the x (where they cross) to be as far forward and close to the motor as possible. If you want to save even more (like I did), just replace the factory single exit with a better aftermarket setup. I tried 3 times to get the right sound and setup. If you go either route, just make sure you don’t go too big on the diameter. These motors will lose torque if you open them up too far and they don’t have any backpressure. I ran a 14” cannon resonator in replacement of the y resonator, and an 18” magnaflow out back to replace the scuba tanks. Sounds good, still have the torque, but breathes better with the other supporting mods I’m about to touch on... here is a link to my build with way more in depth info on the exhaust and vids etc
https://youtu.be/ukyGkXOMJms
https://youtu.be/46I-yR4EI-M

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...0Dinan%20build

Next mod is also really cheap with solid gains. The labor is about an 8 or 9/10 if you don’t have much experience, but you could do it if you take your time.
You want to spend $80-$130 on an M60b40/44 intake manifold. The pre-vanos V8’s before ‘95 had larger runner diameters in the intake manifold. More air flow, more efficiency,
More fuel. I’d say 15-20 hp at redline. The power difference is only up top at WOT. The runners step up to 2” (IIRC) from 1 5/8”, and that’s a cheap easy mod. Write up here

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...9+m60+manifold

https://youtu.be/rKgHH_lm264
https://youtu.be/Tpl_ZYhuqfg

Another quick easy mod is just get on ECS tuning and order an AFE airbox, again it’s max $250 or so and it just helps engine flow and as a supporting mod will all come together in the end for noticeable gains.

Lastly you’ll want to tune the car to take advantage of the increased efficiency from intake and exhaust. Basically the engines ability to breath better really isn’t utilized until the AFR’s (fuel maps), MAF’s, timing curves, and Vanos setups have been adjusted for a more “aggressive” overall tune compared to factory, which is always de-tuned for efficiency and reliability.
Don’t let anyone tune your car who doesn’t know their way around BMW’s. You can buy tunes from guys and if you PM me I can give you his info. I would do the mods in that order then find a local dyno tuner who can strap your car down and hammer out a solid tune.
These few things could probably all get done in the $1500 or less range if you order your own parts and cross shop as needed for labor. The M62 is rated at 291hp and 312 tq from factory at the crank. With these few mods, a solid injection cleaning, and of course good tune up parts installed, you should see about a 30-42ish hp gain, so your 290 hp will be net at the wheels instead of gross.
Lastly e85 ethanol would probably gain 20-25 hp overall, but you’d need a way bigger fuel pump, all new injectors (x8) and could get expensive.

Feel free to pm me with any questions. My build thread is full of garbage, but there’s lots of great mods in there for not only power, but cosmetics and other inexpensive upgrades as well. Good luck and welcome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JimLev]

Hey Looney Tuner, where you been hiding? Haven't seen you in these parts for a long time.
FYI, his '00 540 is rated at 282HP. The later ones were 290HP.

[1gr8e39]

Hey Looney Tuner, where you been hiding? Haven't seen you in these parts for a long time.
FYI, his '00 540 is related at 282HP. The later ones were 290HP.

Thanks Jim I missed BF. You know how it goes... life kicks in and freetjme dwindles progressively until things get lost. Without jacking OP’s post I’m well and I hope you guys are all healthy goin into the Holidays.
For OP, you have done the basic suggested mods that are readily affordable. Mostly I would just make sure that their fully utilized and an actual upgrade rather than just a change. You seem to know your stuff. Is your air filter under hood? Is it sealed? Does the car have a tune? Is it on MAF still? The 3.15 diff is that the auto 540 one legger? Mostly I’m curious if you have any thne upgrades, then also what your current exhaust setup is.

since you have the earlier M62, there actually is an advantage because that 9 horse deficit from the factory can be overcome with those mods I mentioned. You’ll end up with the same gains. Most importantly just remember, if you skip the cost of a new dual exhaust with an x-pipe, and decide to just upgrade the single, don’t go bigger than 2.5”. The x-pipe is much more expensive with double parts and labor, so you can really save tons of money with a smart single system. I think I paid $375 for mine including the resonator and muffler. I will post links to what I used.
The x-pipe helps the M62 because each side scavenges from the other, creating even backpressure. You would really feel that torque loss mid range if you open it up too much. Most local muffler shops if you make an appointment will have no problem cutting out your old exhaust and welding together a quick single setup for cheap. If you’re in California leave your Cats, elsewhere I wouldn’t worry about cutting them out and doing a pre-catback setup. It’s only an extra 18 inches of straight pipe and no additional work. The big y shaped resonator in front of the rear diff is garbage and can go in the dumpster, as well as the big twin “scuba tank” muffler in back. Over 100 pounds weight savings their, too.
You’ll want this type of resonator...
Cheaper
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F201368429949
Better company and construction
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F352338525400

As far as location, halfway between cat and muffler, somewhere close to diff on front side of rear subframe is ideal. Far enough back the exhaust will maintain resonance until it hits the muffler and your luxury car won’t drone like a couple 4 bangers attached at the hip.

Here’s a couple mufflers
I had this one
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F121579269145
Another cheap option, and you’ll only need one.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F282946063285

You can have a larger exit than entry in the muffler, but you get a bellow type sound. If you do a larger inlet than outlet, it ends up with a raspy tone. Believe it or not but 2.5” is still quite bigger than the factory exhaust, and the aftermarket resonator and muffler really open up the sound and flow. The factory y resonator and mufflers are extremely restrictive. The factory wanted to choke all the sound out of their luxury cars exhaust.

Anyway I know I am loading you up with information here, I just know how it is to want to get your car to a point where it’s clearly faster. Most guys here with really well done cars started from scratch and only had enough cash to piece things together over time. There’s great mods that make a difference and cost peanuts when rents due, like converting interior lights to LED or stainless bezels and red needles in the gauges. Your car won’t be getting faster, but it’ll be modernized and individualized and sometimes those small wins add up.
Obviously a blower or porting the heads would step the gains up, but your not looking to spend that kind of money
Here are a few options worth looking into if you’re willing to be creative and put the time in.
1)A well known guy here (Jordan) was trying to get his 530i to the next level. He already had an ESS blown quite modified car. He changed his rear gear set and IIRC he had I think 2.93 and stepped up to either a 3.46 or a 3.64, I think 3.64. He was ecstatic I remember like 2 days later he chopped a brand spanking new mustang GT from a roll on the highway. He was always pretty quiet and I remember him pretty pumped. You can always PM him too
2) Any of the superchargers from the 4.2 Jaguars can be easily retrofitted to an M62. It’s an Eaton style blower and I’ve seen a couple kits done with success. Search here you’ll see them. Instead of 5-7k you can get away with everything but the tune for around a grand. Here’s a whole list of them for 4-500. http://car-part.com, select 03-05 XKR or XJR, then click on air/fuel category and then supercharger


Last option is the easiest IMO and probably the most enthralling when you’re done.
3)DIY turbo kit. People freak out and call turbos dangerous and difficult... FAKE NEWS.
The quality of a modern cheap turbo is better than the quality of a factory 996 or 997-1 Porsche turbo was 10 years ago. It’s like a new phone or tv. They don’t go bad like things once did. For $899 or even less you could buy a decent kit with most the stuff you’d need. Turbonetics has $1000 kit that’s quite good actually, and even a $599 kit wouldn’t hurt anything. You could easily run the dr. Side manifold down behind the bellhousing and merge with the pass side, there’s even room to go around the front. Either modify the pass. Strut tower or relocate to make room closer to the headlight. At that point it’s literally a foot of hot side, whatever FMIC you can get cheap, and a couple more cool side silicon couplers to reach throttle body.
You’ll need to buy a decent wastegate and BOV, but even those are found online cheap and a ton of the kits already have the ext. gate. Aside from the manifolds, most of this stuff can be done w/o fab work because the kits come with a myriad of bends and joiners. Clocking and positioning the turbo ideally makes that stuff so easy. Plumb and drain oil/ coolant (lines), wrap manifolds and downpipe, 2 bar MAP on manifold, 10 pound spring in the gate, and you’re 98% done. All in all even with a few hundred in someone else’s fab labor, you’re nowhere near $2,000, $1500 maybe depending on how much engine management you want to pay for. Best part is the gain. At 8-10 pounds and 90% or so duty cycle.... 500 hp and same amount of torque is without even pushing.
Turbos are no longer hard or dangerous builds. Get parts, build kit over a weekend, take to trusted tuner for semi modest tune. Wideband o2’s are great.
https://youtu.be/ZYiBQzSzFxE
https://youtu.be/d9mg6YISVaE

A few options more to consider. I’ve been there.

Remember too There are quite a few members here that are old dudes with savings accounts and things like pensions and social insecurity checks, and they still will go cheaper on stuff.
Just never skimp on good tires, wiper blades, oils, or gasoline. That’ll come back to haunt you.

You should put up a couple pictures of your car OP. How’d you end up with it? Does it need anything mechanically right away?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shortcut10467]

Thanks for all the info @1gr8e39 it is gr8ly appreciated. I actually read through everything. I'm going to be contacting DUDMD for a tune because I don't really trust anyone locally with the car. When I had my precision turbo'd Infiniti G20 we had a local tuner here in CT who only did SR20s but has since moved to other, greater platforms. My exhaust is de-catted with bottle style straight through resonators where the cats used to reside. It is a Y setup going into a 2 3/4" OD pipe straight back. I did install the M60 Manifold and noticed a big difference, I have a peg-legged 3.15 out of an auto, but still manages to leave a nice double stripe if I'm rolling backwards before the burnout. I will be looking into an AFR gauge soon to monitor the fuel conditions while driving, Personally a big fan of the AEM Uego gauges.... On the mention of fuel, there is a VP Racing gas station about 20 minutes from me that sells 100 unleaded at the pump, so that should also be good for a couple of ponies.
Again very informative, and a great help Thanks guys!!

[shortcut10467]

@JimLev , I tried a different image hosting site, so hopefully you should be able to see the images now.

[JimLev]

Yup, the pics are back.
3 or 4 more posts from you and we won't need to approve your posts.

[geargrinder]

OP this is a really old topic, gets asked every time a guy who's been a hotrodder before comes new to the E39 540 platform he's all "what are my power options!?!? where can I get good cams!?!?!?". Search search and search some more. There's a billion threads on it.

You've got most of the basics above so I'll keep this to more my "executive summary" view than providing loads of facts.

• For sure worth doing aka reasonable ROI: Non-VANOS intake plenum on a TU. LSD in the rear. Exhaust to some extent but then really only if youve done headers.
• Worth doing if you have budget (i.e. expensive but does get gains): Headers for sure (20-30hp?), then the big projects like blowers, nitrous... naturally headers are a good ground-lay-er for the others. You got to spend bux, to spend more bux, as the saying sorta doesn't goes.
• Minimal to zero gains: Tunes on non-boosted cars, CAI's, Throttle bodies, Pulleys. There's some caveats there. The tunes can provide some driveability / feel change that you might like. They ain't producing power without hardware changes, period, regardless of what is claimed. But. I always say on N/A tunes for street cars - the 'feel' differences could very well be 100% worth the price of admission, just don't expect actual true power gains. On the TB 'upgrade', a basic look at rules-of-thumb for N/A flow capacities says the stock TB is more than adequate for the power generated by these motors - i.e. NOT A BOTTLENECK. If you have loads of other mods - read a blower pushing real mass - the just maybe the TB modification could have a measureable impact, but otherwise the impact of the TB is really going to be at barely more than some tip-in feel difference... even then its something that probably could be emulated in the tune anyway. As Jim says the pulleys aren't available and the last ones that were were $$$ for literally a couple hp if you're lucky.
• Not possible for the normal human: Cams (used to be some marketed years ago for NV M6x, but never/none for TU's), Turbos (only 1 running in-engine-bay example built, tho a couple rear-mounts I think...)

IMO, really how far down the headers-blower/NO2 avenue you want to go is the question.
Don't waste a ton of time on the other bullcrap, unless you really are truly going to be superman and do something nobody has done before...

BTW, we have a little something called the 'deadpool' you might find amusing.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...adPool-Tracker

[shortcut10467]

OP this is a really old topic, gets asked every time a guy who's been a hotrodder before comes new to the E39 540 platform he's all "what are my power options!?!? where can I get good cams!?!?!?". Search search and search some more. There's a billion threads on it.

I understand as with every different car and platform some react differently than others to certain mods, I have crossed of a bunch of my typical go-to mods because of reading and lurking, I joined because I figured it was time to get a general consensus on my route, and some guidance.

You've got most of the basics above so I'll keep this to more my "executive summary" view than providing loads of facts.

• For sure worth doing aka reasonable ROI: Non-VANOS intake plenum on a TU. LSD in the rear. Exhaust to some extent but then really only if youve done headers.
• Worth doing if you have budget (i.e. expensive but does get gains): Headers for sure (20-30hp?), then the big projects like blowers, nitrous... naturally headers are a good ground-lay-er for the others. You got to spend bux, to spend more bux, as the saying sorta doesn't goes.

No stranger to that dumped 16gs into an old Infiniti, you gotta pay to play, oldest rule in any car-guy's book.

Minimal to zero gains: Tunes on non-boosted cars, CAI's, Throttle bodies, Pulleys. There's some caveats there. The tunes can provide some driveability / feel change that you might like. They ain't producing power without hardware changes, period, regardless of what is claimed. But. I always say on N/A tunes for street cars - the 'feel' differences could very well be 100% worth the price of admission, just don't expect actual true power gains. On the TB 'upgrade', a basic look at rules-of-thumb for N/A flow capacities says the stock TB is more than adequate for the power generated by these motors - i.e. NOT A BOTTLENECK. If you have loads of other mods - read a blower pushing real mass - the just maybe the TB modification could have a measureable impact, but otherwise the impact of the TB is really going to be at barely more than some tip-in feel difference... even then its something that probably could be emulated in the tune anyway. As Jim says the pulleys aren't available and the last ones that were were $$$ for literally a couple hp if you're lucky.

I've always been a firm believer if you're going to do something you're either in it or not. even for the minimal gains it adds up at the end. Even 2 ponies to the wheels is more than what my start point was. Speaking of pulleys, I think I found my set https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...set-p1109.aspx Now as far as tuning, my personal opinion differs on that, as I believe that even if you drive a yugo a tune makes a difference. There's a reason for them, and with my previous cars, both turbo and non-turbo there was a substantial difference, and not just butt-dyno, actual figures put down on multiple units 1 was a mustang dyno which my turbo car was tuned on, the other was a dyno dynamics in-ground unit for my N/A cars. A base-run sets the starting point, and every tune or power adder from then on you can see improvements and adjustments, as well as how the car reacts throughout the entire rpm range.

• Not possible for the normal human: Cams (used to be some marketed years ago for NV M6x, but never/none for TU's), Turbos (only 1 running in-engine-bay example built, tho a couple rear-mounts I think...)

That thought never even crossed my mind given my searching so far, everywhere I searched gave me a dead-end. So basic bolt-ons it is with this one.

IMO, really how far down the headers-blower/NO2 avenue you want to go is the question.
Don't waste a ton of time on the other bullcrap, unless you really are truly going to be superman and do something nobody has done before...

Not saying I'm superman, but all my previous cars I've done something a little different from the masses which at first drew in some criticism, until I presented the end results. So I like research, and may have to do some digging, it won't be immediately but later down the road we'll see what I can conjure up .... I've really been fascinated with rear-mounted turbo setups, I have a few acquaintances locally which have them, a couple on a few vettes, a Grand Cherokee SRT, and a 350Z... So I'm sure I will have plenty of sources to phish for info if/when that time comes.

BTW, we have a little something called the 'deadpool' you might find amusing.

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...adPool-Tracker

HAHAHAAA Thanks @geargrinder I'll be sure to check it out

[geargrinder]

Speaking of pulleys, I think I found my set https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...set-p1109.aspx

Non-VANOS only. And good luck w/ VAC. They have eyecandy posted on the web, but 'what is real' and 'what is really on the shelf' dno't always line up IMO.

Now as far as tuning, my personal opinion differs on that, as I believe that even if you drive a yugo a tune makes a difference.

Well. I'm sorry. You're just flat wrong there. It all depends on the engine in question and factory calibration. If a factory calibration is crappy, then yes.

Beyond that, even if the factory calibration is 'great' (i.e. no flaws) you are left with then the avenue of pushing safety limits via pushing limits further on fuel, timing, knock sensing, (possibly EGT if the car is smart enough to have that).

Some factory calibrations are sloppy. Some run of the mill domestics (i.e. not special power models) and some Japanese engines would be examples. Yumyums left on the table. Great. Tune it up.

Many other factory calibrations are good - no 'mistakes' per se - but leave giant safety margins. You get the bonus gains from them by pushing these margins. The huge gains you get on Audi/VW turbo are a great example.

BMW factory N/A calibrations tend to be excellent.

If you get extra power, its from pushing the safety limits. Some engines actually can produce there safely, others don't. S54 tunes produce result from pushing down knock limits and pushing timing. Seems like this works out pretty OK and we S54 guys drive around on our better tunes relatively happily and safely.

But I am telling you right now the BMW M6x family does not really have extra food on the table to be had from a tune. This is just a fact Jack. The factory calibrations are pretty damn good, you can diddle with the knock and timing but there just ain't much to be had.

Again not saying a 'tune' isn't worth it especially on a DBW car for feel-benefits, but... There's no big pile of bonus there on an M6x. Don't get your hopes up. If you flash a tune on an M62TU and it "feels faster!" I can absolutely positively guarantee you that on the dyno or a strip that car will prove to have very very little difference from the factory tune. BT and DT, as they say.

Again - sure - might be worth it because the pedal feels better just purely out of pedal-mapping so and car "feels faster" and in the end hey what the hell isn't that all that matters, but, that is how these motors are.

Don't mean to crap on your party, i'm in 100% here to help hope you have a great build. Just don't think a tune is gonna really do jackshiz if we are talking real-dyno/real-ET impacts, however you want to measure.

[shortcut10467]

This can all be relative based on what the expectancy of the tune is... I expect to see somewhere in the area of ~15whp from a tune, I have diddled with cars before so my expectations are realistic, this along with a some timing added, knock pulled, a sprinkle of colder plugs faced and gapped, and a dash of higher test fuel (100 octane unleaded is sold at the pump 20 mins from home), and there it is I have my recipe for a bit more than the base run... As far as me being wrong on tuning, tomato tamato, let's agree to disagree ....

Obviously the car didn't come with a larger diameter exhaust, nor a more free flowing intake manifold, so it's base map is set to it's factory setup with room for deviation for adjusting parameters as the dme sees fit. If the tune modifies that base-map to now optimally support said mods, then it will deviate from there...

There's always room for improvement, smoothing out the powerband, looking for odd dips or spikes in the curves where a pinch more fuel can be added or removed or even a degree more timing can be bumped, that's the point of tuning not always how much power can you squeeze out of it....

Regardless I prefer you don't crap on my party either, I prefer just rain on my parade...

[geargrinder]

I expect to see somewhere in the area of ~15whp from a tune, I have diddled with cars before so my expectations are realistic

You expect laughably wrong. But if you insist on continuing with this, it just makes you n00berdweeb4372 to think that everything he knows from tuning his old NissYotaBaru applies to all engines and this one in particular. We've seen you chum(p)s come and go a million times.

Perhaps you dont understand internet acronyms. See we use these abbreviations on the 'web' (<-- 'web' means 'tehinnnernet') and "BTDT" "means been there done that" which means exactly what it says it means. Gee who might know more about this, somebody who's actually BTB dyno'd commercial tunes with factory ones, and picked through the maps vs BMW factory for this engine, and has done most of the available mods to his car and dailied it for a half-dozen years, and, has been around seeing other guys dyno / strip test so called 'tunes' for years..., or, some n00berd00ber who just bought one last week and thinks he's got it all figured out cuz I'm SURE the M62TU ME7.2 calibrations must be just exactly like the last whatever 'based on an economy car really' thing that he fiddled with? Hmmm gollyjeepers I wonder who might have a better handle on this?

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Obviously the car didn't come with a larger diameter exhaust, nor a more free flowing intake manifold, so it's base map is set to it's factory setup with room for deviation for adjusting parameters as the dme sees fit. If the tune modifies that base-map to now optimally support said mods, then it will deviate from there...

Well, if you want the technical reasons, its because without F/I on the motor, its a MAF based ECU, and in this case and this is where the specifics of any one ECU/motor vs the next ECU/motor matter, the maps all have reasonable headroom to handle any wee bit of twiddle tweaking you can do to help them breathe better (which isn't much either).

You're welcome to prove otherwise, just be sure to post dynos on comparable days and be sure you're keeping all other things equal aka tune changes only. Try before/after tunes on same/same hardware only. As I've told you, headers will pick up a nice chunk. So if you add that, be sure to factory tune dyno it, and THEN try your tune and dyno it. The tune ain't gonna be the difference maker.

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There's always room for improvement, smoothing out the powerband, looking for odd dips or spikes in the curves where a pinch more fuel can be added or removed or even a degree more timing can be bumped, that's the point of tuning not always how much power can you squeeze out of it....

This is the only bit where I agree with you - I've now said like 3 times the "tune" can be worth it in "feel" certainly. Jim Confortis BMW tunes for some cars don't really do jackpoo for real power but they do make them feel smoother and feel better, so, as you absoultely rightly say tuning doesnt have to be about power.

But you said 15hp... and that's a crackpipe dream. If that really was true, every 540i tuner in the world would be selling loads of those tunes and every owner would be running them. They are not.

[shortcut10467]

Dealt with your type many times before, not my first rodeo at a forum on the interwebs.. How did you say BTDT... I try to be respectful to your statement and leave it at lets agree to disagree, but you seem to be persistent, thus I can be as well. You don't like my direction, so say your piece and move on. I don't know you behind this computer screen and what you've diddled with... And you don't know "n00berdweeb4372" so again, to keep the butt-hurt to a minimal, and still maintain a respectable level of integrity between us regardless of our differences in opinion, I say again lets agree to disagree.

Also knowing how tuning maps work as well, I think my statement may have been lost in translation due to lack of detail. When I say an increase of ~15whp this can be lower ~10whp but still yield an increase. I mean that primarily in mid-range 2500-5000 rpm. My max whp number may be no different than stock or maybe change by a silly ~5whp or so, but drivability is in the mid-range where I expect to see my increases.... I would rather remain optimistic at the ~15 and have my crackpipe dreams shattered by a dyno dynamics unit.

On that note, my plan is to get a base map Dyno with the current ECU, and stock components ie IM, Air filter box, standard OEM plugs (except exhaust since I don't have it). Once I have a base down, add the mods back and dyno again. Lastly begin the tuning, and see what can be tweaked, and what needs to be adjusted given the add-ons etc...

[shortcut10467]

Most young tuners and new to the scene car guys want to chase max whp dyno numbers which only shows what a car can do at wide open throttle on a dyno. Part throttle, and mid-range gains are just as, if not more important measure of a tune IMO. 99.9% of what most people drive on the street is mid-range. Realistically, how often do you really drive WOT unless doing a roll-race, or at the drag strip/track? So why wouldn't you want more power for a given pedal position or rev-range if that is the majority of your driving time? If you happen to do a friendly pull every once in a blue on the way home from work and you do it from a 40-roll, those power increases in mid-range will really matter then because that's your usable power-band. This improvement is what makes the car feel smoother/faster and more enjoyable driving on the street.

[JimLev]

Let me jump in here just so this "discussion" between you and GG doesn't get out of hand.
GG is a very knowledgable and nice guy, I know him, we've been to each other's house before.
99% of the time I'll agree with what he says, don't let his method of saying it get under your skin.
Sometimes we need thick skin here. Agree to disagree is good.

All the tuning in the world isn't going to make your butt dyno feel anything. A pull on a dyno will show you you picked up 10-15 HP however that's only a ~3-4% increase.
At one point in my nitrous venture I had my first stage set to a 40HP level....you could feel a slight butt dyno increase however is wasn't very satisfying. 60+ is where you can really feel you accomplished something. My 1st stage is now at 125.

The good thing tuning will accomplish is moving the rev limit up to allow you to go above 6K and eliminate the 155 MPH top end limit if you have the desire to really wind it out.

[geargrinder]

I was wondering why we didn't have any



in here yet.

Listen Jim, with Snotty behaving himself, if I dont' terrorize the n00bz, who's gonna do it!? Its a tough job but its gotta get done.

[shortcut10467]

JimLev Agreed, anything less than 20-30whp is barely noticeable if at all on a chassis as large as the E39. I'm not looking to break records here as mentioned in my first post, I do have a goal which I would like to eventually reach, but nothing more. I was actually trying to keep it from getting out of hand, agree to disagree is where I would've left it
Heck I have disagreements and heated debates with some of my closest friends but we're all friends at the end hence the out to GG. Water under the bridge and we move on, regardless of our disagreements he sounds like a knowledgeable guy whom maybe I'll get to know better as well. But as far as thick skin goes, I tend to think I have it, I mean I work in the forsaken auto industry so we're pretty much born with it lol, I usually meet sarcasm with sarcasm.... Anyway so I guess back to our regularly scheduled programming now, Thanks again JimLev...


This could've been a nice build-up to my 100 posts HAHAHAAA

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I was wondering why we didn't have any



in here yet.

Listen Jim, with Snotty behaving himself, if I dont' terrorize the n00bz, who's gonna do it!? Its a tough job but its gotta get done.

Mind passing some of that popcorn???