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Thread: Reverse, one moment it was there, then it was gone.

  1. #1
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    Reverse, one moment it was there, then it was gone.

    2001 525it with 155k miles.

    15 minutes before, reverse was working fine getting out of the grocery store parking lot. Then I stopped off at the library to return some books and reverse was gone without warning. No faults are displayed on the cluster. Car just revs in reverse and all forward gears are working fine so I pushed it out of the parking spot and drove it home

    From realoem it looks like I have the A5S360R or 390R (not sure which) tranny which is the the same as the GM5L40 but I will verify this weekend when I put it on the lift to check fluid level and then drop the pan.

    Does the A5S360R have the same fragile reverse drum issues as the ZF5HP19? It would be nice if it's something as simple as fluid level or a solenoid. I've taken a manual tranny apart once so maybe I can do the same to this auto. Otherwise I'll take it down to the local transmission shop so they can take a look at it. And to think just the other day I was contemplating about how reliable this car has been since I bought it.

    cheers
    demet

  2. #2
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    Hmmm, you should be squarely within the parameters for having a 5HP19 transmission. And right at the border for the fix.

    A suggestion: take a picture of your transmission by extending your arm under the car. It take a few seconds and you probably won't even get dirty.

    The hard part is pulling the transmission. Disassembling the 5HP19 is *far* easier than a manual transmission. The only special tool you need is a top-quality T27 driver. Replacement screws are surprisingly expensive. Spend $5-$10 to get a tool-truck-quality driver that won't damage the heads. The T40 driver and the few other tools don't need to be anything special.

    At this age the torque converter might also be worth replacing. An internal seal fails, resulting in the lock-up clutch not reliably activating. That's not an operational problem, but people report that the warning light results in eventual insanity.

    You should plan on replacing the two plastic connectors to the oil pump, the large oil pump o-ring, and the input+output shaft seals. You could get lucky and not need any of those, but it's likely that one of the connectors will break during removal and you would feel silly if the inexpensive external seals leaked.

    There is a chance that you'll find hardened seals once you open the transmission. That requires a $150-$200 rebuild kit, and further disassembly. But even there it's mostly figuring out how to apply a few hundred pound of force with a few dollars of PVC pipe fittings rather than the custom bearing splitters and hydraulic press usually required for manual transmission.
    Last edited by djb2; 12-12-2018 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Typoo

  3. #3
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    Thanks djb2. I'll check it out tomorrow and snap a couple of pics and post them up. I was a bit confused by realoem not showing any ZF tranny for this car.
    demet

  4. #4
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    Would agree that it should be a ZF transmission. Sounds like classic reverse drum fracture. Two grand to have a shop do it.
    I had my Japan Red wagon repaired last Spring,had them service the diff also. My winter beater wagon had it done before I bought it.
    Good luck with it.


  5. #5
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    Did you bring them the car or just the tranny?
    demet

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    Quote Originally Posted by demetk View Post
    Did you bring them the car or just the tranny?
    They did everything. I dropped it off and picked it up two days later.
    Complete rebuild and diff oil changed out. I didn't feel like doing it.


  7. #7
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    Wow, to me that sounds like a very good price. Or is that the going rate?
    demet

  8. #8
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    Newbie question. If it is the 5hp19 can the GM tranny be installed in its place?
    demet

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    At the very least you'd need the controller and wire harness(I think it is a discrete harness for trans on E39s?), probably driveshaft, maybe shifter.
    I know it's hard to discourage a guy who courageously puts the glorious M30 in place of an M60.
    FWIW I had a ZF 5hp grenade in a Jag a few years ago, $2k for the complete job. It's certainly DIY able but that pig weighs a friggin' ton and I didn't care to do the R&R on my back.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  10. #10
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    Thanks Ross, That 530i has been dead balls reliable with that m30 in it.

    Pics of the tranny,







    I don't know what I'm looking at right now, but I'm sure you guys must know. I'm going to drop the pan in a bit and see what surprises are waiting for me.

    Hmm, I wonder if a turbo'd m30/5 speed will fit in this touring. I have one just waiting for a new body.

    cheers
    demet

  11. #11
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    Early x-mas present, not much of a surprise. After all there had to be a reason for no reverse and a broken D drum seemed the most likely. Transmission oil was very black.



    Started to pull the tranny. Exhaust is down, what a monster.



    What's with the funky left extension on the resonator that leads nowhere?



    And what is the purpose of this strange part on the back of the muffler?



    That's it for tonight.

    cheers.
    demet

  12. #12
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    And it's out.



    Removal was very straightforward with a fused starter dowel pin the only issue and that was easily overcome.
    demet

  13. #13
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    The factory transmission fluid is green. It only takes a little friction disk dust, or a top-off off with red fluid, to make it look black. Unless you clean it completely and replace the torque converter, replacement red fluid will instantly look "burnt".

    The resonators and counter-weight on the exhaust were very carefully designed. If you remove them you can figure out what annoying buzz they eliminate.

    You need to remove the valve body to pull out the two oil pump connector pieces. Roll the transmission upside down to remove the valve body. Fluid will leak out of the vent so put a cookie pan or diaper under it.

    Then stand the transmission vertically on the output flange to remove the major assemblies. Strap it to a post or the wall. Use your best T-27 driver to remove the oil pump screws, tapping each one before applying turning force. After that each assembly just lifts out, with only two or three more screws to remove.

  14. #14
    geargrinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetk View Post
    What's with the funky left extension on the resonator that leads nowhere?

    And what is the purpose of this strange part on the back of the muffler?
    As DJ says. The first "lung" resonator as we casually sometimes call it, acts as a tuned Helmholtz chamber on the dead-end side. M5's actually breathe out the end of it for a dual exhaust, but all the other cars get it like that with one side plugged, but, it does work to cut resonant drone. The other is a counterweight or sometimes called "damper". It similarly is supposedly harmonically tuned to keep the end of the exhaust from vibrating and buzzing.
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  15. #15
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    Thanks for the replies. That resonator looks like someone cut off perfectly good section and installed a peg leg. I'll bet it costs extra that way.

    Where do you guys get your rebuild kits from? Eriksson Industries are 10 minutes away so I'll give them a call for some parts. They also have fully rebuilt trannies for $2k with a 1 year warranty. I may go that route if I fail at a DIY rebuild.
    demet

  16. #16
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    $331 for the following oem parts from Eriksson,

    Updated D (reverse) drum and 2 plastic tubes,



    O-ring kit,



    Friction kit,



    I'll evaluate where I am when I pull the tranny apart. If I feel I'll need additional parts then I can return the above and just go with the rebuilt tranny from Eriksson. Nate is supper nice and took the time to answer all of my newbie questions.

    Question,

    Is there a tranny computer chip available with a customized set of shift points? What I was experiencing was a very temperamental tranny that shifted at the slightest throttle input. It's possible that the tranny computer was overcompensating for the anemic engine but whatever it is I'm certainly not going to accept this type of weird behavior going forward. I'll definitely do my homework on this problem but figured maybe someone has an answer on this.

    Oh yeah, I do have the 5HP19 tranny.

    cheers and TIA.
    demet

  17. #17
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    The odd shifting could be the result of a wonky MAF. Once you've put it back together with a clean valve body it may not be an issue.
    Can't speak to custom shift points.
    You may want to have a very good look at the A drum while you are in there.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  18. #18
    JimLev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetk View Post

    O-ring kit,


    Does this tranny need the cone tool to shrink the (white?) o-rings on the shaft before you slide the drum on?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Does this tranny need the cone tool to shrink the (white?) o-rings on the shaft before you slide the drum on?
    Hmm, I didn't see one used in the rebuild vids I have seen. I'll take a look and see what I can find.
    demet

  20. #20
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    Got it taken apart, surprisingly with only basic tools.



    As expected, the D drum was busted up.



    I managed to find all of the missing pieces.



    The friction and steel disks in the D drum looked really good so I think I may get away with replacing only the friction disks in all of the drums.

    This was definitely a great learning experience.

    cheers.
    demet

  21. #21
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    Job job, you are braver than i. I have replaced some seals and linkage before but never pulled a auto tranny appart before. My had the torque converter replaced on my car. I hope it's all I will need for a few years anyway.

  22. #22
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    I figured the worse that could happen is I grenade it when I finally put it back in the car and stick it into drive for the first time. But the work isn't over yet. I still need to take all of the drums apart and replace the friction disks which includes building a press to take the D drum apart and then rebuild the new D drum I bought. And finally hope that I don't put it back together all wrong. If you've seen an exploded view diagram of the 5HP19, it's terrifying.

    cheers.
    demet

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetk View Post
    Hmm, I didn't see one used in the rebuild vids I have seen. I'll take a look and see what I can find.
    I was just curious, the 4L65e that I did a few months ago required one if the shaft o-rings were going to be replaced.

  24. #24
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    Thanks Jim, Do you have a source for that cone tool?
    demet

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetk View Post
    Thanks Jim, Do you have a source for that cone tool?
    I didn't need to use it, it's generally used if you are installing new o-rings on the shaft so you can shrink them to get the drum to slide on without damaging them.

    I'll dig up that info later today.

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