Member
Documenting my case:
I took my car in to the local dealership for recalled airbags and also had just gotten an SES which my code reader showed asand had them diagnose, which they quoted me $99 (as a special) to diagnose. The car was given back to me with a diagnosis ofCode:current fault: P1411 (M56 eng) Secondary Air Pump No Activity Detected; Bank2, Secondary Air System Air Flow Too Lowand a note that it wouldSecondary Air Volume FaultHaving just learned in that visit that my car was SULEV and also under some kind of warranty, I went searching and found many documents eg: the owners manual, the covered parts list etc. I took the car back in and the service advisor laughed when I told him I thought the hose was indeed covered under warranty, and then quoted me $175 to diagnose the problem that was already diagnosed. Reason given, so they could find the failing part and see if it was a match on "the list". I left and returned again a few days later and asked to speak with the service manager. After repeating the same script to me, the manager asked if the hose was plastic or rubber because sometimes it makes a difference with some warranties and he wants me to start the process again with a diagnostic fee. He did see the parts list document, but just couldn't tell me if my part was or was not covered.take more diagnostic time to find the cracked hose that is NOT COVERED under SULEV warranty.
From the warranty parts list: https://batxcr1.bmwcenternet.com/lib...s_Coverage.pdf
VACUUM HOSE ASSEMBLY
VACUUM HOSE
VACUUM PIPE
From the owner's manual pg 37 under title: California Emission Control System Limited Warranty
Note the "or upon discovery of the defect" and "without charge for diagnosis".To obtain service under this warranty, the vehicle must be brought, upon failure of a Smog Check test or upon discovery of the defect, to the workshop of any authorized BMW center, during normal business hours. The BMW center will honor or deny your claim within 30 days. If the claim is denied, the BMW center will notify you in writing of the reason(s). The BMW center is required by law to honor
the claim if notice is not given to the owner within 30 days.
The BMW center will, without charge for parts or labor (including diagnosis), either adjust, repair or replace the defective part and other parts affected by the failure of the warranted part, if any. If your vehicle failed the California Smog Check test or an EPA approved short test, then BMW NA will repair your vehicle so that it will pass this test.
pg 36
Is the hose, whichever one is failing, part of the ANY EMISSION-RELATED PART?Manufacturer’s Warranty Coverage:
– For 15 years or 150,000 miles whichever occurs first:
1. If your vehicle fails a Smog Check inspection, all necessary repairs and adjustments will be made by BMW NA to ensure that your vehicle passes the inspection. This is your emission control system PERFORMANCE WARRANTY.
2. If any emission-related part on your vehicle is defective, the part will be repaired or replaced by BMW NA. This is your emission control system DEFECTS WARRANTY.
Same page, the paragraph above the one just listed has this:
Is this legalese "may"? The first instance of "may" lists parts that are explicitly covered, which leads me to believe the second use of "may" also is inclusive and not just the common use of the word ie: "might" or "perhaps" etc.Your emission control system may include parts such as the fuel injection system, the ignition system, catalytic converter, and engine computer. Also included may be hoses, belts, connectors and other emission-related assemblies.
On page 2 there is a graphic labeled "Vehicle Emission Control Information" and there is a diagram labeled "Vacuum Hose Routing Diagram", and from what I can see every part on there is also listed in the parts list eg: cylinder head, Sec. Air Pump, valves, MAF, and in bold is the vacuum hose line.
There is a document TRI B11 75 02 dated October 2002. Pg 2 has a heading "System components used to achieve SULEV tailpipe emission requirements":
(A graphic of the assembly)
My question also is, is there any part that is NOT covered within the SAS? I've looked at the assembly diagram on realoem but haven't seen anything other than that: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_3411Secondary air system with secondary air mass flow sensor (1) used for improved monitoring of secondary air flow.
I am waiting for a callback from BMW NA warranty specialist agent.
The second part of my problem is that I've had 02 sensor errors on every long trip I've taken over 100 miles, for the past 4 years. They told me they found no errors and that I'd have to go on a road trip and come back with the SES light on so they can see it. I've had the 02 codes reset multiple times at various mechanic shops. I explained this, and I have documentation of it. Shouldn't this qualify as part of the "or upon discovery of the defect"? The manual clearly states that the 02 sensors must be replaced every 150K miles, sometimes sooner. I have 137K.
I understand they have to write up certain codes or descriptions in order to be under the proper warranty guidelines for replacing a part, but doesn't the verbiage on this warranty supersede their policy of operating procedure? I suppose I'll find out soon.
Fast
Save yourself the hassel and replace the SAP hose yourself in about 30 seconds. O2 sensors are considered a consumable part and highly doubt it would be covered. At 137k, they are no longer very effective. Not from anecdotal evidence, but from experience.
Member
No it's not a 30 second job. The tech couldn't find the suspect hose segment, which I believe is behind the engine manifold as you can see in the diagram. The one you can see gives a different code when it snaps - P1418. I've already replaced that one.
"O2 sensors are considered a consumable part and highly doubt it would be covered."
You sound just like the advisors who haven't read the documents. All documentation I've seen states the 02 sensors are covered. And EXPLICITLY listed on the warranty parts list as:
HEATED OXYGEN SENSOR, MONITORING
HEATED OXYGEN SENSOR, REGULATING
From the TRI B11 75 02 document it also EXPLICITLY lists it and other components:
(1) Dual down stream catalytic converters
(2) "Warm up" catalytic converters – high cell density
technology
(3) Upstream oxygen sensors – wide band technology
(4) Pistons – only 3mm fire land
(5) VANOS – set to fixed position during start up for
improved engine start
(6) New style fuel injectors – 4 hole design (5 bar fuel
pressure)
From the manual, page 5:
Oxygen Sensor Service:
The oxygen sensor deteriorates strictly on a mileage basis and must therefore be replaced every 150,000 miles to maximize vehicle fuel economy and minimize exhaust pollution. The replacement of the oxygen sensor is required under the terms of the applicable BMW emission system warranties.
From the parts list document:
California Emission States – SULEV (PZEV) Vehicles
4. Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicles (SULEV) classified as Partial Zero Emission Vehicles (PZEV) (Engine Types: M56, N51, N26, B46) (California Emission Control Warranty)
All emissions-relevant components or systems on SULEV (PZEV) vehicles, in applicable states as noted below, are covered under the California Emission Control Warranty against defects in materials or workmanship for a period of 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first.
Jbird
ys know now I feel sorry for the service manager on this one
Member
I'm going through the same crap! I went in four times for a P0411 after they replaced my airbag for recall. Replaced SAP first visit, replaced check valve second visit. replaced vacuum hose third visit, and smoked tested car on 4th visit, found a leak at one of the oxygen sensors and fixed it but couldn't tell me which bank. On the 5th visit they saw that my hose between the SAP and check valve melted! They replaced it no questions asked. Now back to square one. I told him when I use my OBD tool to check for emissions readiness (Mine has expired as of December 1st by the way) the 02 sensors are never ready and neither is the catalyst. I was told that has nothing to do with anything and will need to drive cycle the car more. I've drove cycle it 4 times and no change. Going back on Tuesday if the check light comes on again or the hose melts.
Member
Are they charging you anything? Diagnostic fee?
I took my car in with the P1411 code and after they reset everything it came back and now has the P0411.
"replaced vacuum hose third visit"
Was it just the first segment that connects to the check valve? Or did they replace anything after that valve, to the next nonreturn valve?
The 02 sensors and catalyst are part of the warrantied system and it states they will replace / fix everything in order to get it properly smog'd.
Member
Originally Posted by trevorf
It's this guy here
HOse.jpg
And they are not charging me anything. They didn't replace anything after the valve, just everything before it.
Last edited by TonyDates; 12-08-2018 at 04:29 PM.
Member
Wait a minute, I understand now. They did not mention replacing anything after the the vacuum line. I know it goes to the back of the engine but I don't think they replaced anything after the valve. Isn't there a part back there that controls when vacuum is applied to the line to open the valve?
Member
Ah ok it looks like it's #7 on this diagram is that right?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...15&hg=11&fg=50
Member
Right - so I've had my vacuum hose snap a couple times - the # 4, 3, 5 segment in this diagram:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_3411
And that gives me the P1418 code.
Member
Wow, three lines. I got a feeling they only did one of those three. I'm going to remove the cabin filter and take a took myself. And I'm wondering if any of the components after #5 have gone bad. Imagine if #6 and #7 are not doing their job and getting stuck thus leaving vacuum on for the valve and the exhaust is getting through the check valve thus frying my hose.
Member
The diagram is a bit misleading. The "hose" part, #4 and #5 are very short, maybe 2 inches, so you can only see the #4, the other #5 is attached to that valve tucked behind the engine. The rest they call a "pipe" - plastic line. Both those parts have snapped, the pipe part snapped twice.
I found the pic of my first snap in the hose section:
20150913_171036.jpg
I believe since the tech couldn't find the faulty section it just may be on the other side of the valve.
But you say they replace the bigger hose and that solved your P0411, so that may also be my issue.
Fast
The joys of have a model of car that hasn't been made in almost 13 years. Good luck.
Fast
The SAP ports clog with carbon. Use the SAP seafoam soak method to resolve. Worked for me.
Member
This.
The fault is only on bank 2. The hoses, valves and everything else in the system will cause both banks to set the faults. The only thing that separates the banks is the passages in the cylinder head. O2 sensors are used to monitor the system and each bank has separate sensors so that could be an issue also.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
Apprentice w/#yrs. exp.
Update us when you get their response to coverage.I am waiting for a callback from BMW NA warranty specialist agent.
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