Power steering fluid overflowing when pushing brake pedal!?

[shogun]

yes, probably looks like this, there are some different brands, on the center rod is a circlip under the strainer which you first have to remove http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_0623

I used a turkey buster after all was removed to suck the dirt out from the bottom of the reservoir.
The filter I cleaned with brake cleaner

[jmile46]

Got it! With my luck though one of the seals didn’t survive. You think it’s alright to reuse or do I need to order another?

[shogun]

not sure, you can try using it again. Is is available as single part? part number?

[jmile46]

It appears as its a piece of strainer, not available individually. I put everything back together and no cigar. Shes still grinding. Its like nails on a fricking chalk board. The worst part is that I don’t recall it being nearly this bad just a week ago when I drove her home. It was about 40 degrees then compared to 20 now but still. At this point Im just thinking about replacing the pump with the spare when I do my waterpump.

[shogun]

here how to repair the pump, that was done in 2008 when we repaired my pump http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/526913/

[jmile46]

To my idea of swapping out my power steering pump with the one from a 1990 535i. I see that the one from 535i has 1 different hose, the hose that has the curvy section, where as the 7 series doesn’t have that. The other hose is same on both. Then I realized that 535i didn’t use the h31 system, but pump itself is still the same. So would it be possible to swap over the hoses and throw the 535i pump in? I know current one takes atf and I believe that one is pentosin. Even after draining system would this work? Or would I just damage it with the residual atf?

[shogun]

The pump is no problem for ATF or Pentosin, Pentosin was / is used when the cars have H31 hydraulic brake booster unit and/or self levelling shocks on the rear. It is said that ATF can damage the seals of the SLS shocks.
If I were in your situation, I would rebuilt the pump with a seal kit, not too difficult. As your car has the H31 brake booster, it might have a double vane pump, wheres the 535 has a single vane pump. Without VIN I cannot answer that.
As you still did not mention the VIN of the 735 and also of the 535, we just can guess. Use the VIN of both cars and check in realoem under steering which pumps are used http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select

[jmile46]

Good idea! Although unfortunately I never owned the 535i, it was a disassembled m30 given to me. Couldn’t find vin on block. Only reason Im hesitant to rebuild is because my track record of messing things up when trying to fix, then I don’t want to be screwed and have to buy a pump which costs more than I got car for.

[jmile46]

Well upon some realoem digging the 7 series pump is called An AT-Vane pump with prod up to 08/1990, part number 32411130556.

535i pump says Vane pump. PN 32411141057.

But also says AT-Vane pump with part number 32411141058

[shogun]

556 was only used on E32 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partxref?q=+32411130556 , AT = AusTausch = remanufactured. 32411130556 AT-vane pump, ZF, From: 06/01/1986 To:- , Superseded by: 32411137597 (02/23/1990 — ), nonexchangeable retrospectively, Supersedes: 32411466167(01/08/1993 — ,Part 32411130556 was found on the following vehicles: 7' E32   (10/1985 — 03/1994)

32411141058 AT-vane pump ZF From: 12/02/1991 To:- , Supersedes: 32411132934 (11/01/1987 — 08/19/1992), Part 32411141058 was found on the following vehicles: 5' E34   (03/1987 — 04/1993)

[jmile46]

So unfortunately no dice in terms interchangeability. Finished up waterpump and new belts today. Pump sounds worse as ever. After first start up while watching coolant temps power steering reservoir was bubbling like crazy out of the top holes and LEAKING! I truly do not understand this damn thing. I mean absolutely pissing atf out the top. It does not stop leaking. That mixed with the pump sounding like its running completely dry has me wondering if it’s a clogged line or something!? I mean Ive had the car for a couple weeks and the pump has degraded to the point of being able to hear it up my entire neighborhood. It made no noise that first drive home. I don’t get it.

[shogun]

The lines could be swollen inside, similar to old brake hoses. Restriction of flow.
But if the pump makes so much noise, I assume there is metal to metal touching inside the pump = the 2 profile rings inside are worn/damaged. Repair of a pump with new seals is pretty easy and the cheapest.
Here the procedure from a Porsche 944, they also use the ZF pumps https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...mp_Rebuild.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsZOhqSfy-Y

[G46]

have u checked the cooler? it seems your cooler is clogged,

i have this system on my e32 730i M60..leaked here and there, i thought it was from the reservoir itself, apprently from the booster itself, seeped out thru the frame, goes to the lowest point of the car (frame) and dripped to the floor. my mechanic overhauled the booster, and i have no leak from H31 system now..

[jmile46]

Sho, I think thats what im going to end up doing. But, forgive my ignorance here, I don’t understand how essential just resealing the pump could cause this horrendous noise to go away. I watched through the video but it seems like the major parts of the pump, the gears aren’t touched. Wouldn’t this noise come from within. I know you said bad seals cause metal on metal but I don’t really see where noise would come from. I guess as of now im just worried about going through the time and money rebuilding but have that not fix my issue. I agree though with help of video it looks extremely simple.

Also though could bad seals be causeing this overflow? Will rebuilding help that issue too or am i looking at all new lines as well.

[jmile46]

have u checked the cooler? it seems your cooler is clogged,

i have this system on my e32 730i M60..leaked here and there, i thought it was from the reservoir itself, apprently from the booster itself, seeped out thru the frame, goes to the lowest point of the car (frame) and dripped to the floor. my mechanic overhauled the booster, and i have no leak from H31 system now..

Im unsure, where can I see this cooler? But I can watch fluid leak from reservoir itself.


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[shogun]

the cooler line is shown in the ETK http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...BMW-735i&mg=32
Just as an example: if somewhere in the system is a restriction and after that the line is open, then the fluid flow/speed will increase. For example the E36 had the problem with overflowing Pentosin containers under certain drive conditions, therefore they installed inside the hose from the cooler or pump a flow restrictor, here a pic I posted http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1176344/

Noise: watch the video again, there are 2 profile seals inside the pump which keep the metal parts apart, if these profile rings are gone or reduced, then metal/metal will touch = noise, or your bearing of the pump is damaged. But to check that you have to disassemble the pump or turn the pump by hand and listen for noise.

The cooler line and the other hoses you could test for example by removing them and blowing compressed air thru

[G46]

Im unsure, where can I see this cooler? But I can watch fluid leak from reservoir itself.


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from the reservoir, theres a hose going out from the bottom, towards a cooler near the radiator. your cooler might clog, not allowing enough flow and the return overcomes the restricted inlet flow (pump starving and moan noise) and risen up the level

[jmile46]

I will check that line! It makes sense. And I see it now. When I spun pump by hand without belt I didn’t notice any noise. So im hoping the new seals will solve my issue. Along with clearing out the lines!

One more thing to note is when driving say straight there is no pump noise. But once I apply brakes the pump groans again. I know they are tied in but maybe that can pinpoint something else?

[G46]

driving in straight line is considered no load towards the pump, applying brake or steer left or light translates to applying load, these two steering and brake shares the same system which is the hydro system..i am lucky, when my line from the reservoir to the cooler line cracks and loses all fluid, my pump is still good and intact. its not fun to drive without brake assist and steer assist.

[jmile46]

Figured. Just wondering if that could pinpoint to something specific! Oh well. Looks like im rebuilding the pump!

[shogun]

also consider a steering flushing. ZF Recommended Steering Systems Flushing Procedure
ZF says: A steering system is an important safety component in a vehicle and must be properly maintained. With this in mind, a steering system must be flushed EVERY TIME a component of the system gets replaced, no matter if the components are new or remanufactured.

Equipment Needed:
- Safety Glasses
- Empty Bottle for contaminated oil
- Screwdriver
- Manufacturers’ Recommended Power Steering Fluid

1- Clean the outside of the oil reservoir and the surrounding area to ensure no dirt or foreign particles get into the oil reservoir.
2- With a screwdriver, loosen the clamp holding the return line connection between the steering gear and the oil reservoir. Disconnect the oil line from the oil reservoir.
3- Insert the end of the return line into an empty bottle and cap the oil reservoir return connection with a plug.
4- While wearing safety glasses, start the engine and fill the oil reservoir with fresh power steering fluid while turning the steering from side to side to purge all oil out of the system. (Use recommended fresh fluid to flush the system.)
5- Turn off the engine and remove oil reservoir from bracket. Flush out debris or particles from reservoir into container. Check oil contamination for metal or foreign particles by filtering the contaminated oil with a coffee filter.

- Fine metal shaving means a normal wear and tear of the power steering pump.
- If metal chips are present, replace power steering pump.
- If black rubber particles are present, the pressure/return line inner lining is disintegrated. Replace the pressure/return line.
6- Check the oil reservoir condition for cracks. If the oil reservoir is cracked, replace the oil reservoir. If reservoir has no cracks, just replace the oil filter. If filter is integrated inside the oil reservoir and cannot be removed for oil filter change, replace entire reservoir.
7- Check the condition of the pressure/return oil line for cracks, soft or sweat spots. If any of these conditions exist, replace lines.
8- Check all banjo bolt connections for blockage. If blocked, clear connections by appropriate method (air hose, fluid, etc.)
9- Reconnect oil reservoir into bracket.
10- Connect return line to oil reservoir.
11- Top off oil reservoir with manufacturers’ recommended fluid.
12- Start engine and turn steering from lock to lock to purge air out of the system.
Caution: Do not hold steering gear from lock to lock for more than 30 second. This could cause the steering system to overheat.
12- Check for oil leakage and top off power steering fluid to recommended level. The smallest particle can cause the system to leak or even fail. A clean system is a REQUIREMENT for acceptable service life.

ZF part # to OE Service Part # And Cross Reference with ZF interchangeable Part No. http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/steering-flush.pdf

[jmile46]

Looks like Ill have to do that as well! Thanks again.

[jmile46]

So prior to pulling out my power steering pump today I pumped the brake pedal to get all the fluid into the reservoir and I noticed that once the reservoir began filling up after pumping brakes it was foamy, lots of air pockets. Would this be normal of pumping the brake pedal when trying to get all the fluid out or does this point me to a problem with the system?

I just finished up rebuilding the pump and will be putting it in tomorrow I need to grab fluid. My system says atf on reservoir so Im going to go with atf still obviously. Will this fluid work?



IMG_1196.jpg

[shogun]

well, that is all now geuessing, only you know the level in the container when you started pumping, maybe the level was too low and air got sucked thru the suction tube in the container while you were still pumping.

[jmile46]

Oh duh! Yeah i emptied it, then pumped. So that explains that.