8hp70 mated with a m70

[Fatandre]

8hp70 mated with a m70
What do you think of that?
I have found a company that can do that.

[dukegrad98]

Mating it (physically) is one thing. Making it work is another -- and I assume they can do that or the whole exercise would be pointless. Making the electronics work is surely much harder than connecting the parts. I know that people like the five-speed more than the four-speed in the E31, but I imagine that the price point would be very key as to whether someone is going to bother retrofitting an eight-speed that is almost thirty years newer. My guess is that this would be a very expensive project.

I figure this could easily turn into an "auto vs. manual" discussion. To me, I'd rather see more energy put on the manual gearboxes, since the 560G is basically unserviceable and silly-expensive to replace. Plenty of people have experienced the synchro issue with the factory box. I know about the 420G retrofit kit, which at least a couple of guys here have managed to make successful. To me, a kit to fit something like a T56 or TKO would be much more interesting. The Tremec transmissions are reasonably priced, even new, and there are a million used ones out there with pretty standardized bellhousing setups -- at least here in the States.

Cheers, John

[72tpik5]

An interesting idea. How do they plan to control the transmission?

5HP30 Gear Ratios

1	2	3	4	5	R
3.55	2.24	1.54	1.00	0.79	3.68

ZF8HP70 Gear Ratios

1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	R
4.714	3.143	2.106	1.667	1.285	1.000	0.839	0.667	3.300
5.000	3.200	2.143	1.720	1.314	1.000	0.822	0.640	3.456

List of ZF 8HP variants[edit]

Name	Max. gasoline torque (N·m)	Max. diesel torque (N·m)	Application examples
8HP30	300	300	-
8HP45 (a separate 845RE is for V6 Chryslers)[9]	450	500	BMW 1 Series (F20), BMW 2 Series M235i (F22), BMW 3 Series (F30), BMW 5 Series (F10/F11), BMW X3 (F25), BMW X4 (F26), BMW X5 35i (E70), BMW X5 (F15, BMW X6 (F16), Chrysler 300 V6, Chrysler 300 C, Dodge Charger V6, Dodge Durango V6 (2014-2017), RAM 1500 V6 (2013- ), Jaguar XE, Lancia Thema V6, Volkswagen Amarok
8HP50 (2nd Generation; a separate 850RE is for V6 Chryslers)[10]	500	500	Alfa Romeo Giulia, Alfa Romeo Stelvio, BMW 1 Series (F20 LCI), BMW 2 Series M240i (F22), BMW 3 Series (F30 LCI), BMW 5 Series (F10), BMW 7 Series (G11), Dodge Durango V6 (2017-), Jeep Wrangler/Wrangler Unlimited (JL) ,BMW X3 20D(G01), BMW X3 30i(G01), BMW X3 M40i(G01)
8HP55	550	550	Audi Q5, Audi Q7, Audi A8 and A8L (D4)
8HP70	700	700	BMW 7 Series (F01), BMW X5 50i (E70), BMW 5 series (F10/11), BMW 3 Series (F30) 335d, Dodge Durango V8, Iveco Daily, Jaguar F-Type (V6 and V8), Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L 8-cyl Engine Code [T] EZH (2014 -), Jeep Grand Cherokee 6.4L 8-cyl Engine Code [J] ESG (2014 -), Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 & diesel, Ram 1500 V6, V8, & diesel, Range Rover Sport (2012), Rolls-Royce Phantom, Maserati Quattroporte (2013–), Dodge Charger V8 (2015-), Dodge Challenger V8 (2015-), Aston Martin Vanquish (2015), Aston Martin Rapide S (2015),[11] Alpina B3 (F30/31), Alpina B4 (F32/33)
8HP75 (2nd Generation)	750	750	Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio, Aston Martin DB11, Aston Martin V8 Vantage (2019), BMW 5 series (G30/G31/F90), BMW X5 M (F85), BMW X6 M (F86), BMW 7 Series (G11/12),[12] BMW X5 (F15)[13] BMW X3 30D (G01), RAM 1500 (2019-)
8HP90	900	1000	Rolls-Royce Ghost,[14] Rolls-Royce Wraith (2013), Bentley Mulsanne, Bentley Continental GT, Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat, Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat, Bentley Bentayga, Audi RS 6, Audi SQ7
8HP95 (2nd Generation)	900	1000	Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT Trackhawk, Rolls-Royce Ghost Black Badge, Rolls-Royce Wraith Black Badge, Rolls-Royce Dawn Black Badge, Aston Martin DBS Superleggera [15]

[Fatandre]

According to my sources its a price of 8k dollars with everything.
They are mounting one to a e34 540 with a turbo

[72tpik5]

8k? I'm out. A 8HP70 from a 2wd Dodge Ram can be bought used for less than 1k. The 8HP70 may be overkill, since the 8HP45 will handle the torque of a M70/M73. Controlling it is the big part.

[Fatandre]

So here is the gearbox in a e34 m60 turboed.
This can be mounted in a m70 850 and boy I think it would do magic.
It also has launch control. Now I wish I had still a automatic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TMO7cZzC3s

[72tpik5]

Wow! Seems to work very well. Are they telling how they control it?

[Fatandre]

Wow! Seems to work very well. Are they telling how they control it?

I know nothing about that.
I guess it will be a secret as they do the swap

[72tpik5]

I know nothing about that.
I guess it will be a secret as they do the swap

As I expected.

[JDP530]

PMC Motorsports is working on an adapter kit at this time to mate the 8 spd ZF 8HP70 to the M70 V12 engine. Their adapter plates for many other applications are in the $300 range. Full kits for manual conversions using the 420g run around $1000 to 1200 and include flywheel, clutch assembly, etc., but no hydraulics. PMC mentioned designing a trans controller for the ZF auto but another company, HTG Tuning, http://htg-tuning.com/, already offers a 'stand-alone' TCU that replaces the ZF 8 spd unit inside the transmission. Their TCU is tunable with their software. This unit is apprx $1200.

The ZF trans are readily available with used units selling for $600 to $1200 and up. I think ZF stated that apprx 3.5 million units have been manufactured to date.

[arno]

Hi Guys,

Found this thread researching that topic. So I figured I'd uptade with links of the build mentioned with the build for the 540iAT (page 8 is where you see paddle shifters appear) and mention my interest.

I'm not in for a manual conversion for my 850i (too obvious and way too much work) but I strongly consider a 8HPxx (no way cops or insurance figure out I changed something about the car).
That'd be a really positive change compared to the 4speed slush box, with weird gear ratios...

Fatandre, Did TurboLamik quote you 8K? Still a bit high, I'd be in at 5K€.
If you consider:
the adapter: 649,00 €The GCU: 1000 €
The Gearbox: 1000 €
Drive shaft mod: 200€
Paddle Shifters: 500€

I'd say with labor 5k€ is not so so far... so I'll ask TurboLamik again and give you the answer.
I'd have to take a trip to poland... good way to travel...

Just to open up conversation, there is now a 8HPxx with an electric motor replacing the torque converter, this is how BMW makes hybrids...

[paulmer]

arno, doing a manual swap will surely be childs play compared to the work of swapping to a 8HPxx...I've manually swapped an M60 car to 420G before, and I'm preparing to swap my 750/M70 to 420G with PMC kit.

The video and concept of using an 8HPxx is really interesting, but I gaurentee it will be far more costly, far more complex..I'd also wager it to be less reliable. What happens when you have an issue with the trans? Who is going to debug it? Good luck.

[arno]

The video and concept of using an 8HPxx is really interesting, but I gaurentee it will be far more costly, far more complex..I'd also wager it to be less reliable. What happens when you have an issue with the trans? Who is going to debug it? Good luck.

Sure, but manual swap is not an option here in France, too obvious and would change the type of the vehicle and effectively make it uninsured. Hence my interest in the 8HPxx.
For update, no answer from turbolamik.

[arno]

For the sake off boomarking.
Here is the debate on the polish forum.
It's ending by a link to a thread in USA where the genius mechanic mated a 8HP70 to a Chevelle, and tapped into the solenoids to control the trans. I had seen the video but couldn't find the build thread. that is now corrected.

[arno]

Again, for the sake of bookmarking here is a tentative.
Two companies (US based) are tackeling the problem:
- SoundGermanAutomotive is no offering kits
- HotWire Auto as well

[CD05001CIA]

So one is certainly stuck with the gear ratios within the auto transmission. I would think with the broad torque range of the M70, S70 & M73 that a 6HP would suffice. The 8 speed was developed to operate with an engine that has a narrower torque range, was it not?

[Hyper]

By reviewing many gear charts and graphs like that post by 72tpik5 above, I concluded there was a significant jump in the range (low to high) when migrating from 5-spd planetary gear sets to the 6-spd technology.
Going from 6-spd to 8-spd, not so much.
The 6-spd pretty much eliminates "diff whine", that expressed desire to have shorter of longer legs.
But if you were starting from 5-spd, and committed to the big investment, why take the half-step?
I'm still in on the back-burner hobby work mentioned on last year's thread, so I can provide my personal answer.
The 6-spd is junk-yard cheap and there is a lot of hacking info specific to it. So its quite adequate for messing around.