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Thread: M54: Whats the weak leak, HG or Studs?

  1. #1
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    M54: Whats the weak link, HG or Studs?

    I am working on a relatively low key turbo project, 93 octane stock bottom end. Reading around I'm seeing lots of discussion on head stud hardware and head gaskets. I understand in high power builds both are no good but in lower 300-ish power levels which of the two is the concern? Is the hardware not up to the task and allowing the head to lift and blow the gasket, or is the stock head gasket just crap? Is it "hack" to leave the head in place and just swap out the head bolts one by one.

  2. #2
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    In the lower 300s you have no worries at all on a healthy engine. Dont touch the motor and just run it.

    I recently pushed a 2.5 until it broke to see where it happened at. Pump gas 18psi 6262ish turbo. It was probably making in the low to mid 4's based on butt dyno. The rings butted before the head gasket or head bolts failed.

    These motors are pretty tough with a good tune

  3. #3
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    300k mile m52 with over 25k miles turboed on a stock motor, stock hg and studs. 93 octane 12psi on a gt35. I do have a really safe and conservative tune though.

    1998 318i m52 swap 3.38 lsd, 1995 540i/6 speed (SOLD), 1993 325i, 1999 328is m-sport, 1996 328i GT35

  4. #4
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    OP is asking about aluminum block M54 not iron block M52 in a US spec 328i.

  5. #5
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    Yeah aluminum block, I haven't had my car too long and I bought it in a terrible state, like idk if this will make it home. I've done a lot of work to it to get to a point that it could maybe handle a few lb's now.

    My goals are modest and I want to run a small turbo. Just looking for something to point and shoot around the street. I've built a lot of turbo cars over the years and I am pretty realistic about what I want now. This will probably be the slowest car I've built to date.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrk1 View Post
    I am working on a relatively low key turbo project, 93 octane stock bottom end. Reading around I'm seeing lots of discussion on head stud hardware and head gaskets. I understand in high power builds both are no good but in lower 300-ish power levels which of the two is the concern? Is the hardware not up to the task and allowing the head to lift and blow the gasket, or is the stock head gasket just crap? Is it "hack" to leave the head in place and just swap out the head bolts one by one.
    I'll assume most of the discussions centered around their failure due to overheating.

  7. #7
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    With the older iron block S52, I have swapped studs one by one with the head in place. This might be a good test for your aluminum block M54 — if your bolts come out clean, your block has not yet suffered a bad overheat and you still have good threads and should have good clamping force.

  8. #8
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    Yeah this is pretty much what I am getting at. So best case none of the threads pull out and I end up with stronger studs in the motor but don't need to deal with pulling the head all the way off. Ive replaced everything else cooling wise as a precaution already.

  9. #9
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    If you do decide to go all out, there maybe a cometic compression lowering gasket and you could pull the pan, pull the rod caps, and gap the piston rings looser.

  10. #10
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    It's honestly not worth the fight in my opinion, do a head gasket and time sert the block and you wont have to worry about it.
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Devils Own Meth, Porsche 911 calipers with E46 M3 rotors, Corsa Exhaust

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    If you do decide to go all out, there maybe a cometic compression lowering gasket and you could pull the pan, pull the rod caps, and gap the piston rings looser.
    This is possible for all but cylinder #6.

    The oil squirter sits under the timing wheel....which blocks the piston from being dropped out the bottom of the block.

    To get the oil squirter out, you have to pull the crank....

  12. #12
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    I thought the piston came out the top? Head would be off for this job since changing the HG is part of the proposal. Undo rod cap and push rod and piston up and out.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gmfwd View Post
    In the lower 300s you have no worries at all on a healthy engine. Dont touch the motor and just run it.

    I recently pushed a 2.5 until it broke to see where it happened at. Pump gas 18psi 6262ish turbo. It was probably making in the low to mid 4's based on butt dyno. The rings butted before the head gasket or head bolts failed.

    These motors are pretty tough with a good tune
    Wow, I have pretty much the exact same experience. My 2.5 ran great at 14psi for a few thousand miles, at 18psi I had ring end butt as well. My butt dyno said the same ~450whp. No head gasket or bolt issues at that level.

    I’m now building a 3.0. Going to use 10mm studs, slightly thicker MLS, and file fit the rings a little looser. Should be a reliable 500whp setup.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    I thought the piston came out the top? Head would be off for this job since changing the HG is part of the proposal. Undo rod cap and push rod and piston up and out.
    Man...I really need to catch up on some sleep!

  15. #15
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    So... What I'm kind of getting from this thread is that if I want to build a 400ish whp motor, and my compression checks out on my m54b30, I really might be fine without pulling the head for a gasket+ studs? With a good tune (recommendations? I was planning on going the easy route of RK.) it'll be safe at 400hp?
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp235 View Post
    So... What I'm kind of getting from this thread is that if I want to build a 400ish whp motor, and my compression checks out on my m54b30, I really might be fine without pulling the head for a gasket+ studs? With a good tune (recommendations? I was planning on going the easy route of RK.) it'll be safe at 400hp?
    Correct.
    RK would be good. There are a few other options as well, including myself.

  17. #17
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    Hmmm.... Interesting. I wonder how long a 235k mile m54b30 would last at 350hpish.... I might have to start putting together a kit. I'm not even sure where to begin looking to figure out turbo sizing, as I'm really only familiar with precision turbos... and a 5858 seems a little excessive for those power goals. Maybe something like a gtx2867? I presume that would be pretty quick to spool as opposed to a 3067ish size.
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  18. #18
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    You going to drift it?

    3076r on a SPA manifold has been my ticket for many years. Mines a 2.8. A 3.0 would spool it around 3k

  19. #19
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    Damn, as low as 3k?! Sweet, good to know. Thanks a bunch!
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp235 View Post
    Hmmm.... Interesting. I wonder how long a 235k mile m54b30 would last at 350hpish.... I might have to start putting together a kit. I'm not even sure where to begin looking to figure out turbo sizing, as I'm really only familiar with precision turbos... and a 5858 seems a little excessive for those power goals. Maybe something like a gtx2867? I presume that would be pretty quick to spool as opposed to a 3067ish size.
    Increase the ring gap on the pistons, put a thicker head gasket on, and run 10mm Raceware head studs. That will give you what you want.

    The one place I would put money into is the oil pump.....I'm a big believer that the GSR oil pump solution is the only one that will last when the engine is being run at high RPM for long periods. (Aside from the BMW motorsport solution, but it is over $3k and very difficult to source now)

    On the turbos....the GT30 is the smallest turbo I would run on this engine, and I wouldn't us the 76 compressor wheel with that turbine. I ran a GTX3076R for a while, and the compressor was just too much for the smaller turbine wheel....I had HUGE back pressure that started at about 10 psi of boost. If you are going to buy a GTX turbo...my preference would be the GTX3576R. That turbine wheel will give the engine room to breath, and the compressor wheel will be in it's sweet spot at 350 to 400hp.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
    Increase the ring gap on the pistons, put a thicker head gasket on, and run 10mm Raceware head studs. That will give you what you want.

    The one place I would put money into is the oil pump.....I'm a big believer that the GSR oil pump solution is the only one that will last when the engine is being run at high RPM for long periods. (Aside from the BMW motorsport solution, but it is over $3k and very difficult to source now)

    On the turbos....the GT30 is the smallest turbo I would run on this engine, and I wouldn't us the 76 compressor wheel with that turbine. I ran a GTX3076R for a while, and the compressor was just too much for the smaller turbine wheel....I had HUGE back pressure that started at about 10 psi of boost. If you are going to buy a GTX turbo...my preference would be the GTX3576R. That turbine wheel will give the engine room to breath, and the compressor wheel will be in it's sweet spot at 350 to 400hp.
    Have you seen seems legit's new oil pump? It's a pump converted to 3 bolt, I believe with an upgraded shaft, and a tensioner to prevent chain slap that they claim is the reason the "harmonics" kill the shafts. It.... seems legit, ironically.

    What AR would you be running in a gtx3576? And do you have suggestions for other turbos for the 350-450ish whp range? Current Turbo plan is pretty much what you described- Raceware studs and a gasket- I need to look into ring gap. Truthfully have no clue what that's about, and I admit to not knowing a ton of the technicality of the interior of engines. I'll look up what the piston ring gap determines, and learn some new stuff. I was hoping to not have to pull the pistons/ rods, and be able to have a reliable setup wihtout taking apart more than the head.
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp235 View Post
    Have you seen seems legit's new oil pump? It's a pump converted to 3 bolt, I believe with an upgraded shaft, and a tensioner to prevent chain slap that they claim is the reason the "harmonics" kill the shafts. It.... seems legit, ironically.

    What AR would you be running in a gtx3576? And do you have suggestions for other turbos for the 350-450ish whp range? Current Turbo plan is pretty much what you described- Raceware studs and a gasket- I need to look into ring gap. Truthfully have no clue what that's about, and I admit to not knowing a ton of the technicality of the interior of engines. I'll look up what the piston ring gap determines, and learn some new stuff. I was hoping to not have to pull the pistons/ rods, and be able to have a reliable setup wihtout taking apart more than the head.
    I don't have personal experience with Mike's pump solution, but it looks like he's having success with it on his track car. Take your pick.

    On the turbine housing: These engines don't seem to like boost at lower RPMs. What I mean by that is that I didn't see the same type of torque at 3000 RPM @ 10 PSI of boost, as I did at 4,000 RPM. Based on that, my preference is not to focus on getting more torque under 3500 RPM, and instead focus on getting more efficiency at peak torque. (Lower back-pressure) To get the most out of pump fuel, you want exhaust (turbine) back pressure to be as low as possible. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid to run a 1.06 A/R housing....

    There are many other people on here that are more experienced than I am in recommending turbos. I prefer to share what I have practical experience with....and so far that is very limited in this respect.

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