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Thread: E36 turns off once it gets to running temp - solved, CPS

  1. #1
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    E36 turns off once it gets to running temp - solved, CPS


    My e36 323i 1995 turns off once it hits running temperature and wont turn on until it cools all the way back down

  2. #2
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    check the fusible link in the trunk https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post29867431
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  3. #3
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    E36 turns off once it gets to running temp

    Quote Originally Posted by shogun View Post
    check the fusible link in the trunk https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post29867431
    I thought the fuessable link was “I have power” or “I don’t have power” thing?


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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 02-03-2019 at 12:30 AM.

  4. #4
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    Coolant temp sensor or the 02 sensor. I would also do a hard reset of the ecu by unplugging the battery for a few minutes.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluptgm3 View Post
    I thought the guessable link was “I have power” or “I don’t have power” thing?
    I know a lot of cases from the E31, E34 and E32 forum, where the engine suddenly stops. The fusable link get's haircracks and depending on temperature sometimes it works and sometimes not. like this http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/s...ible_E32_1.jpg
    also other electrical problems, here one example copied from a U.K. forum:

    Subject: car often will not unlock - like NOTHING when key is turned, E32 730i M30, copied:
    Tom: have been having an issue in the colder weather . car often will not unlock - like NOTHING when key is turned. Had some big other issues last week .. anyway ... ended up changing the crash sensor relay .. and GM. Recent issues - central locking often hasn't worked when cold outside . last night a NO GO . Also no interior lights . car started first turn when i got it opened though ( emergency procedure).
    by the way .. this morning after it had warmed up a little and no issues at all .. like nothing had ever happened .I really need someone who understands the wiring diagrams and E32 a bit.Thanks in advance ...
    ----------------------
    shogun: When it does not unlock and you use emergency unlock, does the engine start then? There are 2 fusible links in the car under the rear seat on right side where the battery is.One goes to the e-box directly and powers the Motronic etc, and then other one goes to the left side under the rear seats and powers all the modules and relays there.Go to my website . http://twrite.org/shogunnew/topmenu.html click in the index on left , then reference data>>>under electrical there is E32 fusible links. That is a pdf file, open that and that explains you and shows where fusible link A and B are located. Fusible B is 80 Amps. It feeds all the Rear Power Box loads. Remove that, maybe it has a haircrack and when temperature goes up, the fuse still works.
    In case you do not have a fusible link as spare, use a jumper cable for a test and by-pass the fuse. often the cracks are under the rivets and can hardly be seen, so make in any case a test with a jumper cable to by-pass the fusible link. Fusible link B powers the RM, GM, all the relays there under rear seat.
    ----------------
    Tom: Hi Guys .. issue gets even MORE curious .. yes cars starts first time after i open it .. just central locking and interior lights don't work .Today , was cool this morning .. car opened and closed no issues .. everything fine .
    Use car this PM .. all ok . THEN ( and its hot now ) ... suddenly no locking / no interior lights ... this tends to blow my idea of cold weather out the window .Beginning to think maybe it is something to do with wiring in the door ? But not sure what could / would do this ? when i look at the diagrams? Thoughts please .......Ok .. more gremlins tonight ... now no radio ... and no power windows .. so more things to check on wiring diagrams .. will try the rear fusible link - jump test tomorrow
    -------------
    shogun: Check BOTH fusible links.
    --------------------------
    Tom: Thanks ........... EUREKA !!!!!!!!! pulled open the rear fusible link .. and its knackered ... was just touching .. so sometimes working .. sometimes NOT .
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  6. #6
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    I checked the fusable link its fine. I tired hard reset the ecu still turns off when hot and where are the o2 sensors/coolent sensors

  7. #7
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    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

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    Are you losing fuel pressure, spark, or all electricity?

  9. #9
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    Coolant sensor is under the intake torwards the front, usually blue plug sticking out. 02 sensors... If you asked,maybe you should call a shop.

  10. #10
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    Well I hooked up Carsoft 6.5 to it and it Showed a cylinder 4 and throttle position sensor error but i checked and the engine temps all read properly live but after fixing the cylinder 4 missfire and clearing the codes. Both original codes don't pop up anymore so I'm lost for what it could be as no codes pop up now
    Last edited by Major1997; 12-04-2018 at 04:39 AM.

  11. #11
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    You are going to spend more chasing your tail by throwing parts at this than you would if you just pay a shop to diagnose it properly.
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Devils Own Meth, Porsche 911 calipers with E46 M3 rotors, Corsa Exhaust

  12. #12
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    If it shuts off at temp, it could be a sensor issue that becomes apparent once it switches from closed loop to open loop.

    When the car is warming up, the engine runs in closed loop. All the sensors use preset values for fuel and ignition management.

    Once it's warm and all the sensors are in their operating range, it switches to open loop. During open loop the car runs on whatever values the sensors report.

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  13. #13
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    Does it turn off instantly once warm, or does it gradually start to misfire more and more, until it finally dies?
    Can you give more details?

    The nice thing about the MS41 DME in your M52 E36, is that it has a lot of fail-safe modes. So there are a lot of sensors you can disconnect, and the engine will still run.
    Try to run without MAF, and see if problem persists. (just disconnect the big round plug)
    Try to run without oxygen sensors, and see if problem persists. (two connectors/plugs below engine beauty cover driver side, on the fuel rail)
    Try to run without coolant temp sensor (on the head, below intake manifold), and see what happens (best chances with engine already warm, and O2 sensors warmed up).
    Try to run without intake air temp sensor (on the bottom of intake manifold, throttle body side), and see what happens.

    It could also be a sensor, connector, relay or a fuse that shorts out once it reaches a certain temperature.

    Would be really nice to get TestO running (Windows laptop, USB OBD2 adapter cable, standalone testO software, INPA installation not needed as it works standalone). Then you can log all important sensor values and you should be able to see what sensors start to give strange values when the engine dies.

    Download TestO here: Diagnostic program with realtime graph view - Bimmerforumshttps://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?...

    Good luck!
    Last edited by ed323i; 12-05-2018 at 05:48 AM.


    1997 E36 BMW 323i
    (European) 275k km (171k miles), with following small mods:

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    Quote Originally Posted by XnWarden View Post
    If it shuts off at temp, it could be a sensor issue that becomes apparent once it switches from closed loop to open loop.

    When the car is warming up, the engine runs in closed loop. All the sensors use preset values for fuel and ignition management.

    Once it's warm and all the sensors are in their operating range, it switches to open loop. During open loop the car runs on whatever values the sensors report.

    Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
    Good advice but you've got it backwards .the engine starts in "open loop" and switches to ,"closed loop," once it reaches 140F

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyfishvt View Post
    Good advice but you've got it backwards .the engine starts in "open loop" and switches to ,"closed loop," once it reaches 140F
    Tomato tomahto lol

    But OP, i would start logging data if you have access to such functions. When the car dies, does it start misfiring first? Or does it just cut off?

    Pay attention to exactly what temperature it turns off at. Check the reported temperature against the actual temperature.

    Look at sensors like the coolant temp sensor, the air intake temp sensor on the manifold, the egr valve, and the oxygen sensors.

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  16. #16
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    OBD Fusion will create logs, about $15 for Android more for iproducts. nice dashboard too.

    Screenshot_20180713-114322.jpg

    Gave away my BMWs, driving a VW and an Audi now.

  17. #17
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    When it stops, check for spark. Also, see if it will start and run for a few seconds on starting fluid or carb cleaner.

    Crankshaft position sensor might be getting hot.

  18. #18
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    Sorry for not getting back to this thread in a while. I have checked basically every sensor that can be unplugged while the car still runs and nothing has stopped it turning off I replaced the camshaft sensor and I have a crank shaft sensor to put in it. The car usually turns off around 93 degrees Celsius and if i'm driving it it will studded than turn off but if its just sitting it will just turn off with no difference than as if I clicked the key off. once it turns off it stops spark and sometimes stops fuel. I know I should go to a mechanic but i'm trying to learn about the car before I give up just yet so if anything breaks in the future I have a better idea of what I could be. if you have any ideas i would be more than grateful to hear what you think could be wrong.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major1997 View Post
    Sorry for not getting back to this thread in a while. I have checked basically every sensor that can be unplugged while the car still runs and nothing has stopped it turning off I replaced the camshaft sensor and I have a crank shaft sensor to put in it. The car usually turns off around 93 degrees Celsius and if i'm driving it it will studded than turn off but if its just sitting it will just turn off with no difference than as if I clicked the key off. once it turns off it stops spark and sometimes stops fuel. I know I should go to a mechanic but i'm trying to learn about the car before I give up just yet so if anything breaks in the future I have a better idea of what I could be. if you have any ideas i would be more than grateful to hear what you think could be wrong.

    I have not read your extensive thread. But your car shutting off suddenly and everything checking out sounds suspiciously like a fusible link. FLinks going bad have cracks that may grow just far enough apart at a particular temperature, to stop carrying current.

    Have you checked your fusible links ? There should be 2 in each car. They cost like $3 each and take 5 minutes each to replace. They will go at some point, and the intelligent thing to do is to change them out to new ones immediately regardless. Old ones can often look very normal, but they have cracks which get worse with heat.

    While they are on order, what you could do is to jump the flinks terminal with some wire and drive, or do so when the engine shuts down and see if it starts up again.

    Again, I have not read through this thread so my apologies if this has been suggested and checked out. Assuming it has, and sensors have been ohmed out normally, and your ground points have all been disconnected, scrapped with wire brush and reinstalled, and your battery terminals are good and tight tight, then, the only possibility here, would be a bad crankshaft position sensor. It goes out of range when hot. I see you have one at the ready. Please put it in immediately. That can also be responsible for this issue. I'm assuming its an oem sensor. Thats bosch, valeo, vdo, meyle, bmw, hella, behr. If its not, then don't bother. Get an oem one and install.

    If that doesn't help, and all the foregoing has been checked, then its your dme. Something goes kaput when hot.

    Oh wait..........

    Ok. I once had this happen to two friends. A bad throttle position sensor. It can cut off the engine suddenly for no reason. Has it ever shown up on a code ? If not, try driving with it disconnected at temperature. Anyway, safety reasons, best to change it to a new one. You don't want the engine to cut out at speed on the highway or something.
    Last edited by Thomas525; 02-03-2019 at 12:37 AM.

  20. #20
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    The OP pmed me a few days ago and said that the new cps (crankshaft position sensor) solved the problem. Have asked him several times to post the fix in this thread for the benefit of others, but he has not responded.

    Basically, in a situation where you have an engine cut off while driving or hot, the approach is this. Ask yourself what would cause a regular no-start but with crank situation. It is likely one of those devices that is behind this. That device is in range and working normally when cold, but once the engine gets hot, it goes out of range and the dme shuts down the car. Or the car won't startup when hot but starts fine when cold.

    So what can cause a no start with crank? Bad : cps, dme, dme relay, fuel pump relay, fuel pump, fusible link, fuel pump fuse, fuel filter, engine coolant temp sensor. So that's what you need check in a situation where the car starts fine. Two cps's on two different old bms which only when out of range when hot showed this to me.

    Start with the cps - it tends to be the culprit in these cold-hot situations. But if it ohms out correctly when hot, you need to check everything else on that list.

    There is only one exception to this that I've read about or heard about personally. The tps. A bad tps does not cause a no start. But the throttle position sensor can, for some reason, cut off the engine while driving when it is damaged. The test for this is to unplug it and see if the problem happens again. But its best to just get a new one ahead of time because it is dangerous for this to happen at speed not worth saving the $40 for oem and the 5 minutes it takes to replace it with a simple screwdriver.
    Last edited by Thomas525; 02-05-2019 at 08:33 PM.

  21. #21
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    Red face The fix

    if anyone's wondering the fix for me was the crank position sensor

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