Jack Stands or Tire Rests

[Cranetb]

Just pulling the trigger on a 2000 Z-3 2.3 with @23k miles, and first foray into the BMW and Roadster realm... and looking forward to enjoying the sun and wind on my face.

But first, need to get my new baby through a harsh Pittsburgh winter. Have space in my garage, but trying to weigh the relative merits of Jack Stands versus Tire Rests.

The tire rests would obviously allow for a more rapid transition to drivability if somehow a beautiful day reared its head (which surprisingly happened in February of this year where we had some great bicycling weather in February!), but I see the advantages of the tire stands in releasing completely the load/wear on the tires.

So any thoughts on the advantages/disadvantages of either of?

Thanks!

[BladeRunner919]

I've left cars parked up with neither over the winter, with no ill effects.

[Vintage42]

... harsh Pittsburgh winter. Have space in my garage, but trying to weigh the relative merits of Jack Stands versus Tire Rests...any thoughts on the advantages/disadvantages of either of? ... transition to drivability if somehow a beautiful day reared its head...

For a few months storage, both are unnecessary, and undesirable in case of a nice day. Keep the battery on a tender -- attach the tender's clamps to the positive and negative points provided under the hood. I have bought both the Deltran and Ctek tenders, and gave the Deltran to a friend because the Ctek was so capable, informative and compact.
https://www.amazon.com/CTEK-56-864-A...attery+charger

[Tigershark48]

Other posts recommend 50 psi in tires for winter layup making sure you reduce it back down when driving.

Congrats on the new purchase. I just got a 2000 model with just under 20k miles on it and will be storing for our Wisconsin winter. I ordered jack stands since I also want to get underneath to access and inspect things.

Getting my insurance coverage, I asked about the lower rate for storage. Other posters mentioned their policy allowed X number of days that they could take it for a spin. My policy does not. My agent said my special rate is mainly due to dropping down to comprehensive only. He said I could still drive it, but without collision coverage. He also said next year, when the calendar date puts it at 20 years old, I can get collector plates and insure it as such. Two benefits to this are 1) lower rate due to supposed reduced driving and 2) being able to insure for actual value versus book value.

[rasmuw]

Getting my insurance coverage, I asked about the lower rate for storage. Other posters mentioned their policy allowed X number of days that they could take it for a spin. My policy does not. My agent said my special rate is mainly due to dropping down to comprehensive only. He said I could still drive it, but without collision coverage. He also said next year, when the calendar date puts it at 20 years old, I can get collector plates and insure it as such. Two benefits to this are 1) lower rate due to supposed reduced driving and 2) being able to insure for actual value versus book value.

Hagerty will provide coverage this year for actual value if you want another option. Their rates are good, there is no mileage limitation, and they have an excellent record with claims.

[PbFut]

A few months on the tires will not likely hurt the tires but it takes less than 2 minutes total to place on jack stands and can be done in your tuxedo assuming you have a floor jack.

[Cranetb]

For a few months storage, both are unnecessary, and undesirable in case of a nice day. Keep the battery on a tender -- attach the tender's clamps to the positive and negative points provided under the hood. I have bought both the Deltran and Ctek tenders, and gave the Deltran to a friend because the Ctek was so capable, informative and compact.
https://www.amazon.com/CTEK-56-864-A...attery+charger

Thanks for the info...will look into each of those. Definitely want to be ready to ride on any of those few days we do get in the winter :-)

[Cranetb]

Other posts recommend 50 psi in tires for winter layup making sure you reduce it back down when driving.

Had not heard this...will keep it in mind!

Congrats on the new purchase. I just got a 2000 model with just under 20k miles on it and will be storing for our Wisconsin winter. I ordered jack stands since I also want to get underneath to access and inspect things.

Yes, I like the thought of having it elevated. Already have a couple upgrades that would require lifting it to make it easier to get to, and already have a floor jack, so a good bonus.

Getting my insurance coverage, I asked about the lower rate for storage. Other posters mentioned their policy allowed X number of days that they could take it for a spin. My policy does not. My agent said my special rate is mainly due to dropping down to comprehensive only. He said I could still drive it, but without collision coverage. He also said next year, when the calendar date puts it at 20 years old, I can get collector plates and insure it as such. Two benefits to this are 1) lower rate due to supposed reduced driving and 2) being able to insure for actual value versus book value.

I will talk to my insurance about the lower rate for storage potential. I have Nationwide, and I thought they offered that option...but don't know if it includes the "free days".

Thanks for all info...great stuff!

[Randy Forbes]

Other posts recommend 50 psi in tires for winter layup making sure you reduce it back down when driving.

Congrats on the new purchase. I just got a 2000 model with just under 20k miles on it and will be storing for our Wisconsin winter. I ordered jack stands since I also want to get underneath to access and inspect things.

Getting my insurance coverage, I asked about the lower rate for storage. Other posters mentioned their policy allowed X number of days that they could take it for a spin. My policy does not. My agent said my special rate is mainly due to dropping down to comprehensive only. He said I could still drive it, but without collision coverage. He also said next year, when the calendar date puts it at 20 years old, I can get collector plates and insure it as such. Two benefits to this are 1) lower rate due to supposed reduced driving and 2) being able to insure for actual value versus book value.

That's the complete extent to my initial winter prep (overinflating the tires to 50 psi) but 12 yrs of that exhausting nonsense prompted a move to SW Florida. "Winter prep" nowadays is identical to "Monday prep, Tuesday prep", etc., etc.

Side benefits include a more comfortable environment for Christmas decorating too




IMG_9471.jpg

[PhilPhil]

If you want to be super thorough, you can do what my mechanic (race car guy) suggested: Jack stands high enough that the tires are still touching the ground a bit. This keeps the various rubber bushings from mashing or ovalizing too much either from 1) the weight of the car sitting on them immobile for 12 weeks (Chicago winter), and 2) the weight of the suspended wheels and stuff hanging on them. The idea being to kinda get the suspension in a neutral gravity state as much as possible. My jack stands are 12x12 blocks of wood maybe 10 inches tall with square pads of tire tread on top, to completely protect the underside of the car. Overkill? Maybe, but its not all that much trouble.

Other than that, tires to 50psi, Sta-bil in a full tank of gas, and battery tender.

[rboehl]

Been doing this for 16 years now. Max pressure in tires , battery tender, mouse traps around car, full tank of gas with sta-bil, car cover on. That is all.

[Vintage42]

... it takes less than 2 minutes total to place on jack stands and can be done in your tuxedo assuming you have a floor jack.

It takes me at least 15 minutes. Getting out the floor jack, the jacks stands, the wood block and the felt pads. Then kneeling and laying on the floor to position the floor jack under the differential, raise the rear end, position the rear stands under the jack pads, lower the rear end on them, then position the floor jack under the front frame, raise the front end, position the front stands under the jack pads, and lower the front end on them. Totally ruins my tux ;-)

[cngizbleevng]

I thought raising the rear by the differential was not the optimum way to do it--just something I read somewhere and please correct me if I'm wrong.

[PbFut]

Use the rail on the side of the car about 6 to 8 inches in. After a few times you don't even need to look how far to slide the jack in. A few pumps up and pace the stands under the jack pad points. Down and repeat on opposite side. Done. 2 minutes really and you never touch a knee to the floor. I'm old and avoid that sort of thing now.

[BladeRunner919]

I thought raising the rear by the differential was not the optimum way to do it--just something I read somewhere and please correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe it's ok if you jack under the body of the diff, not the diff cover, which won't take the weight.

[daven]

Use the rail on the side of the car about 6 to 8 inches in. After a few times you don't even need to look how far to slide the jack in. A few pumps up and pace the stands under the jack pad points. Down and repeat on opposite side. Done. 2 minutes really and you never touch a knee to the floor. I'm old and avoid that sort of thing now.

I agree, but I don't trust the frame rails or my accuracy for placement. I've got a 2 - 4x4's cut to span the length between the 2 jack pads. After the first use the wood was scarred so I balance it on the floor jack at that point, slide it under the car and jack the side, place the stands and trundle on over to the other side. My suspension is low enough and/or my jack is high enough that I can't jack either end without the use of homemade ramps. Another winter storage tip. If your storage space is unheated with a concrete slab, put a piece of thick cardboard or thin plywood under the tires (you can drive onto it), the concrete will leach moisture out of the tires and cause a flat spot. Or least so I was told.

[me77]

I thought raising the rear by the differential was not the optimum way to do it--just something I read somewhere and please correct me if I'm wrong.

BMW says raising the car by the differential is not allowed: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...w-away/I4dKEaO

Raising vehicle at rear: Important!
Risk of damage!
Raising the vehicle at the rear differential is not permitted!

[Vintage42]

I thought raising the rear by the differential was not the optimum way to do it...

This probably refers to the warning to put the jack under the cast steel differential, not the aluminum differential cover which is just attached to the differential by a few bolts.

[Vintage42]

Use the rail on the side of the car about 6 to 8 inches in...

Pelican describes using the rails:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...ur_Vehicle.htm
I am not sure the rails were designed for the loading caused by single jack in their center. I would want to spread the load with a plank like daven in a previous post.

sideup.JPG

BavAuto describes using the crossmember and differential:
https://blog.bavauto.com/563/bmw-pre...g-up-your-car/
Ron Stygar seems to have done that, too:
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/too..._your_car.html

[Randy Forbes]

Pelican describes using the rails:
https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...ur_Vehicle.htm
I am not sure the rails were designed for the loading caused by single jack in their center. I would want to spread the load with a plank like daven in a previous post.

sideup.JPG

BavAuto describes using the crossmember and differential:
https://blog.bavauto.com/563/bmw-pre...g-up-your-car/
Ron Stygar seems to have done that, too:
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/too..._your_car.html

After I got a look at the structure hiding under the sheetmetal rocker panel, I was very impressed with how thick the sill box is. As long as you can prevent denting the thin rocker, I wouldn't hesitate to lift the car anywhere between the jack pads. It's girder-like.







Yes, but I'm the same guy that does this...

[Vintage42]

After I got a look at the structure hiding under the sheetmetal rocker panel, I was very impressed with how thick the sill box is. As long as you can prevent denting the thin rocker, I wouldn't hesitate to lift the car anywhere between the jack pads. It's girder-like...

So there is the exposed floor reinforcing rail a few inches under the car, and there is the unibody structure under the painted rocker panel.
I don't see where the floor rail is mentioned as an approved structural point for a single bare jack.
And if there is any gap between the rocker panel and the unibody structure, the panel could be affected by the best protected jack. The cars own jackpads go through the panel into the structure.
From Randy's photos, it looks like the edge of the body structure tucks or bevels in, while the rocker panel flares out. So there is a void running inside the outer edge of the rocker panel. If one was to press on that void in the process of jacking, it might dent the panel.

The crossmember in front, and the differential on the subframe in the rear, still seem best to me for lifting the car onto jack stands.

[Tigershark48]

I’m no expert to say the least, but the crossmember is there to support the weight of the engine with downward force. Between the huge difference in engine weight and the front half of the car weight plus pushing up vs down, I struggle with the cross member being designed to handle that kind of load. Maybe it can do that, maybe not. I personally like the 2x4 between the front and rear jack points to lift it up for the stands to be placed at the jack point locations.

I plan to put mine up on stands for the first time very soon, so will be taking a hard look at the best procedure.

[Vintage42]

I’m no expert to say the least, but the crossmember is there to support the weight of the engine with downward force. Between the huge difference in engine weight and the front half of the car weight plus pushing up vs down, I struggle with the cross member being designed to handle that kind of load. Maybe it can do that, maybe not...

The weight of the engine is carried by motor mounts on the unibody on each side.
The cross member supports the axles, and is an extremely strong beam that has always been used as the jack point to lift the front of the car.
The jacking point on the cross member is shown by the red cross and red star in these photos.

Jack point 1.jpgJack point 2.jpg

[Migou]

I have been using a jack and a piece of wood. I made plates that fit inside the plastic pieces that fit over the jack stands.

So when the weight is on the jack stands, the pieces I made take the weight of the vehicle where it's supposed to be.

Not sure if that made sense.

Anyway I have not had any issues.

[Vintage42]

I have been using a jack and a piece of wood. I made plates that fit inside the plastic pieces that fit over the jack stands.
So when the weight is on the jack stands, the pieces I made take the weight of the vehicle where it's supposed to be.
Not sure if that made sense...

You don't say where you are using the floor jack.
And it's not clear about putting plates inside the plastic covers of the jack stands. I have HF stands with hard rubber covers; perhaps you are putting plates in those to bridge cup in the top of the stands.
As long as the stands are under the car's four black plastic jacking pads, and not touching the painted rocker panels, all the weight is going from the frame to the pads to the stands.